At DragonCon and met Arsenal Models/Cool Models

[TheSt.LouisKid]

Having fun and meeting some people for the first time face to face. Atlanta is nice. I have pics and video to post when I get back.

At the dealers I saw Arsenal/Cool Models. As some of you know I'm not keen on the recasters as I make my own sculpts. I was going to keep it on a conversational level. I asked the woman working the Arsenal booth if she felt at all wierd about recasting other artists work. She paused and said she didn't feel bad since the props they recast were studio castings that someone else recast(playing stupid). I told her I wasn't talking about those and clarified I meant the ones made by other artists because the original casts were not available. She denied and with some feeble indignance said she made many of the masters herself. I ran down a quick list of ones that I knew were recasts from people here or elsewhere like the Batman grapple gun and multipass. She said she bought the multipass from the guy who made the master. I used to own a Munson multipass and theirs looks like Matts. (Matt please correct me if I am wrong.) I asked her to explain those two for example. She paused. I asked here if they felt like parasites stealing other artists sculpts...and in front of eveyone(children and adults alike) she said "***k y**". I just walked away since she lost it.

Nice.

One would think as many times as they have read it on the web and head in person they wouldn't be so touchy.

edit for spelling.

 

[SurferGeek]

You can't reason with them. I ran into them a few years back and had a similar conversation and even had photos of some of the original artist's work on my phone. Showed them and they tried to claim that what I was showing was recast from their work. Truly deluded individuals...

 

[SD Studios]

I was at a convention in FL a few years back and they had SEVEN of my items as recasts. Now I KNOW that they never consulted me on any of them. :rolleyes

I played dumb and asked what the origin of each of the pieces was. The gentleman said that most of them were molded from ORIGINAL PROPS.

Surprise. :rolleyes

I don't remember making the original Batgun or ITLOF pistol. I must be more famous than I realized. :lol

I DID notice that they were substantially smaller and "muddier" than my original patterns. So they are probably recasting someone-else's recasts of someone else's recast.

They all looked to be at least, third- or forth-generation castings. Most of the detail was completely blurred out.

The average convention attendee has no idea and probably buys-into their false claims. The pieces are kinda neat and fairly cheap, so they probably sell well.

I think of it THIS way: They are condemned to spend the rest of their lives as them.

 

[themanwoaname]

i dont think people outside of this community care near as much about recasters as the community does. as long as they have a booth with reasonably priced stuff that people want it will be purchased by people that dont know or care any better.

if they recasted something of yours, make them aware of it. resign to know that they'll continue to do it regardless of knowing where it came from. :/ if they havent, ignore them and dont make a purchase from them.

if it really means much, they've been to every convention ive been to, what would it hurt for someone to stand in front of their booth with handouts that links to builds and creators of the items they sell that are recasted?

above all, maybe they are uninformed to the origins of the stuff they buy to cast?

 

[exoray]

i dont think people outside of this community care near as much about recasters as the community does. as long as they have a booth with reasonably priced stuff that people want it will be purchased by people that dont know or care any better.

Well in reality (and sadly most of the time) that mentality also runs thick inside this community as well, it doesn't take much to have several in the community turn a blind eye on the origins and source of shinny trinkets when the price and availability falls inline with their needs and wants...

A recent pertinent thread that just made me shake my head a few days ago...

http://www.therpf.com/f12/anyone-ever-bought-ebay-store-94132/

The list could go on and on, items like the Icons Batarangs and Sabers have been recast so many times that they are not even worth their own cost of resin anymore... Stormtrooper, Vader and Boba helmet and armor recast are all over as well, and some items like the Illusive Concepts Han in Carbo seem to be wide open game for anyone to recast...

It's really disheartening sometimes... Artist will be reluctant or no longer release their works, and we also miss out on the potential for high quality first generation licensed runs of many items as it's no longer economical for the companies or artist to bring it to a market already flooded with bootlegs... There are always exceptions to the rule though, but I'm of the belief that we have potentially lost out on more then we have gained over the years...

 

[themanwoaname]

Well in reality (and sadly most of the time) that mentality also runs thick inside this community as well, it doesn't take much to have several in the community turn a blind eye on the origins and source of shinny trinkets when the price and availability falls inline with their needs and wants...

A recent pertinent thread that just made me shake my head a few days ago...

http://www.therpf.com/f12/anyone-ever-bought-ebay-store-94132/

The list could go on and on, items like the Icons Batarangs and Sabers have been recast so many times that they are not even worth their own cost of resin anymore... Stormtrooper, Vader and Boba helmet and armor recast are all over as well, and some items like the Illusive Concepts Han in Carbo seem to be wide open game for anyone to recast...

It's really disheartening sometimes... Artist will be reluctant or no longer release their works, and we also miss out on the potential for high quality first generation licensed runs of many items as it's no longer economical for the companies or artist to bring it to a market already flooded with bootlegs... There are always exceptions to the rule though, but I'm of the belief that we have potentially lost out on more then we have gained over the years...

i noticed that thread and another one about recasters on ebay. and saw a few "well, they're recasters, and this is what i bought from them..."

so to see that, and to read a thread like this, i dont know what to think.

to me it looks like the op was really just looking for trouble.

 

[exoray]

to me it looks like the op was really just looking for trouble.

No the OP was just adhering to the honor code followed by most members of this community, an adherence to the code obviously not shared by all... As I said it's a big gray area and there will never be a black and white line, but most will walk the line much closer to the white side, but for others their end goal won't allow them to remain in the light gray, or even mid grays and their actions will take them right over to the side...

 

[Grey]

to me it looks like the op was really just looking for trouble.

He said to someones face what most people talk about wanting to say everytime a recast thread pops up. I applaud him for sticking true to his opinions even face to face. It's alot harder when you're not in the saftey of a message board to stand up for what you think is right, and he had every right to tell her off.

 

[pennausamike]

He said to someones face what most people talk about wanting to say everytime a recast thread pops up. I applaud him for sticking true to his opinions even face to face. It's alot harder when you're not in the saftey of a message board to stand up for what you think is right, and he had every right to tell her off.

Agreed.

The recasters of Arsenal/Coolmodels are living large on other people's work.
While some of us sit home, they travel to every con, paying for their trips with money they make selling the work of others.

 

[MooCriket]

Could not agree more, well stated Spike and Bravo St.LouisKidthumbsup

 

[rollerboi]

The recasters of Arsenal/Coolmodels are living large on other people's work.
While some of us sit home, they travel to every con, paying for their trips with money they make selling the work of others.

I wish I could even afford to travel to every con, paying for my trip with things I make and sell MYSELF.

Good for you for turning up the pressure on them. Hopefully more people can do this, get word out. It might even be nice to have talking points to bring up around the others at their booth. It's not slander if it's true.

 

[propologist]

way to go st. louis...love when someone steps out from behind the Keyboard ninja status

 

[Funky]

Good on you for calling them out in public! I'm really disapointed at the amount of RPFers that have the privilage of attending Dragoncon and don't approach them like you did. You want these people to stop recasting your work? Call them out! Could you imagine if over the span of a day a dozen people called them out in public like you did? At they very least they would stick to internet sales only and they would stop showing their face in public for fear of another embarassing episode.
I know if I was there, I'd bring a folding chair and sit just outside of their booth holding a sign.

 

[Apollo]

It's good that you called them out but little will be done unless you use guerella tactics

In the 90's when I was rolling the Company I worked for had the License from the creator Scott Steinek to sell Trek Art, it was cgi of TOS Trek's sets.

Frank Virga bought one from us and copied them and started selling them, we confronted him a few cons later and frank said eff Scott what's he gonna do kick my ass?

Well I know Scott well and once he was told he drove non-stop from Atlanta to Washington D.C. where we were at a trek Con.

Told Frank he was on his way and Frank blew us off.


Just so happened our Crew as well as Frank were at the front desk when Scott came charging in all dressed in Camo yelling "where is he I'm gonna kill him"!

Frank had to go change his pants and started selling Trek Art with Scott getting his cut after that.


In the old days dealers had a way to deal with crap like that and some of it was not pretty.

 

[themanwoaname]

arsenal models is going to keep recasting, they made it clear when she said they're original pieces.

you want to hurt them? when you go to cons they're at take a few moments and inform everyone buying from them (or looking around) and tell them about what they're buying. arsenal models makes alot of money at cons, alot of people buy from them because they dont know anybetter. let the customer know before they buy. the customer that isnt informed keeps them in business. with a print out of proof, if a customer learns that they're giving hard earned money to a theif, they'll stop having a product available because they wont have the dirty money to make more and pay for booth space.

i dont think its against any rules for you to inform customers to their bad business practices at a con, especially with documented proof. hell, arsenal models would probably be the easiest recaster to get rid of, and this way is completely nonconfrontational to them.

what you may want in the print out:
the creator of certain pieces
links showing the build of the pieces, must have parts shown before completed pics.
any identifying markings that they have on the original build, that arsenal has on theirs.
pricing of the creator's piece.


they cant take you to court for taking money away from them, because they are aware they are stealing.

 

[micdavis]

Throwing down on the show floor is a good way to get thrown out of the con.

The con organizers don't know the differences we call out and frankly don't care.

The creator of Babylon 5 nearly got himself arrested at a con because he took an unlicensed PPG off a dealers' table and tried to claim because it was illegal he could confiscate it.

Wrong, that's for the courts to decide.

Recasting sucks, but you don't own the rights either, so watch yourself, you may get yourself tossed in the clink.

 

[GuntahKela]

I would like to see this campaign as youtubes that can be reposted everywhere. If someone is going to face them and embarrass them, it might as well be captured on video and put on the web for ever and ever.

I have seen this people's booth at Megacon many times. As pointed by others, their castings suck, and their booth reminds me of a candy vending machine: Insert .50 cents and get a placebo prop.

 

[themanwoaname]

Throwing down on the show floor is a good way to get thrown out of the con.

The con organizers don't know the differences we call out and frankly don't care.

The creator of Babylon 5 nearly got himself arrested at a con because he took an unlicensed PPG off a dealers' table and tried to claim because it was illegal he could confiscate it.

Wrong, that's for the courts to decide.

Recasting sucks, but you don't own the rights either, so watch yourself, you may get yourself tossed in the clink.

exactly. i agree 100 percent.

 

[micdavis]

I would like to see this campaign as youtubes that can be reposted everywhere. If someone is going to face them and embarrass them, it might as well be captured on video and put on the web for ever and ever.

I have seen this people's booth at Megacon many times. As pointed by others, their castings suck, and their booth reminds me of a candy vending machine: Insert .50 cents and get a placebo prop.

And if someone at a Con stuck a camera in your face and said.

"We understand you are a member of the RPF. We believe the people on there make and sell unlicensed movie props to whoever will buy them on the interenet. How do you feel about stealing other people's intellectual property"

Would you want a youtube video of that.

Do not poke the bear folks. We become the prop police, the REAL police may just show up at your door next.

 

[Wolvster1]

BTW, the " woman " { I won't use the word LADY } working
the table is the wife of the guy that runs that Business...

I've had the great misfortune of seeing her ugly gob
at every Wonderfest for YEARS !

Her husband is never far away, you can't miss him.
Short, red headed, trollish, acne encrusted little weasel looking like
he just came from a Dick Tracy bad guys get together...

:unsure