ANOVOS issues (ANOVOS ONLY discussion)

[Pepperbone]

I am not sure why you feel this is fluff. It is an accurate statement about the two of them. ANOVOS was started by two fans (who came directly out of this community and TDH) who started as unlicensed prop makers and eventually got licensed.

Not saying that their statement is inaccurate. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they, like us, are passionate about this stuff. But passion is not the issue here. And, respectfully, the fact that ANOVOS was started by fans who came directly from this (wonderful) community is different and separate from the way they've been operating.

If I order products from them, pay them in full, in addition to handling fees [sic], but I do not receive those products (one of them purchased 21 months ago and counting), or any reasons why those products keep getting delayed 3-6 months every 3-6 months - and the first 2 statements released by the company addresses their passion, and how the “complex burden of accuracy” has caused them an immense amount of pain, without offering any clarity regarding if/when those delayed products would ship, and disregarding all those who have been seeking either answers or refunds in the last 18+ the months; then, to me, it's fluff. I'm not inconsiderate towards the issues that have been causing the delays. I just don't care for excuses, especially if all the stuff I ordered but never received is already paid for. Nothing personal - all business.

Moving forward, I (we) will wait for their Delivery Expectations in the next few weeks and re-evaluate our frustrations then. But for those of us who have already paid for items years ago and still do not have any idea when these items will ship; statements like these don't alleviate the pain.

That's why I feel it's fluff.

 

[oblagon]

I hope they refund everything and then shut it down.

My guess is they'll shut it down and run with the money like Icons.
This announcement shows that people are sick of the BS and voting with their dollars. I'm also guessing that Anovos is being hit with tons of refund requests, credit card chargebacks and complaints from the attorney general in California. It's only a mattter of time now.

 

[OCDChad]

Why would I go to Anovos over an unlicensed seller? For the things I'm interested in the prices are higher, they're not as accurate, and they take longer to ship.

Do they offer anything that unlicensed people aren't making right now?

 

[Apollo]

All of the signs are there, they are in serious jeopardy

My guess is they'll shut it down and run with the money like Icons.
This announcement shows that people are sick of the BS and voting with their dollars. I'm also guessing that Anovos is being hit with tons of refund requests, credit card chargebacks and complaints from the attorney general in California. It's only a mattter of time now.

 

[Darth Fetty]

My guess is they'll shut it down and run with the money like Icons.
This announcement shows that people are sick of the BS and voting with their dollars. I'm also guessing that Anovos is being hit with tons of refund requests, credit card chargebacks and complaints from the attorney general in California. It's only a mattter of time now.

I'd also imagine their latest preorder offerings like the Clone Trooper helmet have had little interest because of the past wait times and uncertainty.

I've ordered some pretty wonderful things from them in the past (Snowtrooper, AT-AT, and TIE pilot ensembles), but I'm quite concerned about what's become a two-year wait and ~$800 I currently have in them for a Krennic ensemble.

 

[USS Endeav]

I hope they refund everything and then shut it down.

Why would you want them to fail? please tell me how that (closure) is more advantageous than a company making improvements and thriving with consumers benefiting from that change. There are many examples of companies that have turned themselves around. Changed the product, improved customer relations and in the end, expanded the business line, here are a few. Would you say that consumers would be better off without these companies or their products?


Apple is one of the greatest comeback stories in tech history. Founder Steve Jobs was fired from the company in 1985. In the 12 years that followed, Apple found itself operating at a loss as it inched towards bankruptcy. Needing a refresh, Apple hired back Jobs in 1997 and he orchestrated a partnership with Microsoft to invest in $150 million into the company. A year later, the company introduced the iMac and for the first time since 1995, returned to profitability. The rest is history


Tesla and SpaceX both hit cash shortages just as the economy was tanking in 2008. "I could either pick SpaceX or Tesla or split the money I had left between them,” Musk told Bloomberg's Ashlee Vance. SpaceX applied for a contract with NASA as its last hope to bail itself out — and it won. The $1.6 billion contract has kept Musk's space dream afloat. At the same time SpaceX was crashing, Tesla was burning through about $4 million in cash a month. Instead of playing Sophie's choice, Musk made a bet that SpaceX would win the contract and keep both his space and car dreams alive. He took out a loan from SpaceX, and scrounged around for $20 million. After a bluff to his investors, they agreed to match the $20 million he raised, and the deal closed on Christmas Eve in 2008 — hours before the company would have gone bankrupt.

I for one felt national pride when I saw those rockets land on the platform. No other company or nation has ever achieved that before.

Airbnb was founded in 2008 by three guys who had an idea to rent out air mattresses in living room floors. To founder Brian Chesky's dismay, though, investors weren't as enthused with the homesharing business as they are now. Chesky received seven rejections from VCs and subsisted on cereal until the company finally was accepted into Y Combinator. That air mattress on the floor startup is now worth a whopping $25.5 billion. Our Au Pair uses this company every time she goes away for the weekend with other Au Pairs from our area.

Phil Libin had made the decision to lay off all of his employees and shut down Evernote in 2008. Checking his email one last time at 3 a.m. before going to bed, Libin found an email from a man in Sweden who loved the product and offered to invest. A wire transfer for $500,000 helped the company avoid a complete shut down and gain enough traction for it to take off. Evernote is now valued at more than $1 billion.

Founded in 1999 by Tim Westergren, Pandora was able to raise some money right before the dotcom bubble burst. Once that money ran out, however, Pandora struggled to raise more cash as Westergren's pitch to more than 300 VCs during that period fell on deaf ears. He laid off the staff unless they worked for free, but eventually it paid off. Pandora went public in 2011.

 

[OCDChad]

Why would you want them to fail? please tell me how that (closure) is more advantageous than a company making improvements and thriving with consumers benefiting from that change. There are many examples of companies that have turned themselves around. Changed the product, improved customer relations and in the end, expanded the business line, here are a few. Would you say that consumers would be better off without these companies or their products?


Apple is one of the greatest comeback stories in tech history. Founder Steve Jobs was fired from the company in 1985. In the 12 years that followed, Apple found itself operating at a loss as it inched towards bankruptcy. Needing a refresh, Apple hired back Jobs in 1997 and he orchestrated a partnership with Microsoft to invest in $150 million into the company. A year later, the company introduced the iMac and for the first time since 1995, returned to profitability. The rest is history


Tesla and SpaceX both hit cash shortages just as the economy was tanking in 2008. "I could either pick SpaceX or Tesla or split the money I had left between them,” Musk told Bloomberg's Ashlee Vance. SpaceX applied for a contract with NASA as its last hope to bail itself out — and it won. The $1.6 billion contract has kept Musk's space dream afloat. At the same time SpaceX was crashing, Tesla was burning through about $4 million in cash a month. Instead of playing Sophie's choice, Musk made a bet that SpaceX would win the contract and keep both his space and car dreams alive. He took out a loan from SpaceX, and scrounged around for $20 million. After a bluff to his investors, they agreed to match the $20 million he raised, and the deal closed on Christmas Eve in 2008 — hours before the company would have gone bankrupt.

I for one felt national pride when I saw those rockets land on the platform. No other company or nation has ever achieved that before.

Airbnb was founded in 2008 by three guys who had an idea to rent out air mattresses in living room floors. To founder Brian Chesky's dismay, though, investors weren't as enthused with the homesharing business as they are now. Chesky received seven rejections from VCs and subsisted on cereal until the company finally was accepted into Y Combinator. That air mattress on the floor startup is now worth a whopping $25.5 billion. Our Au Pair uses this company every time she goes away for the weekend with other Au Pairs from our area.

Phil Libin had made the decision to lay off all of his employees and shut down Evernote in 2008. Checking his email one last time at 3 a.m. before going to bed, Libin found an email from a man in Sweden who loved the product and offered to invest. A wire transfer for $500,000 helped the company avoid a complete shut down and gain enough traction for it to take off. Evernote is now valued at more than $1 billion.

Founded in 1999 by Tim Westergren, Pandora was able to raise some money right before the dotcom bubble burst. Once that money ran out, however, Pandora struggled to raise more cash as Westergren's pitch to more than 300 VCs during that period fell on deaf ears. He laid off the staff unless they worked for free, but eventually it paid off. Pandora went public in 2011.

My hope is that somebody gets the license that actually delivers products on time and uses makers in the U.S. that know what they're doing.

All those companies you listed are ones I could not care less about. I have never bought or used their products or services.

 

[USS Endeav]

My hope is that somebody gets the license that actually delivers products on time and uses makers in the U.S. that know what they're doing.

All those companies you listed are ones I could not care less about. I have never bought or used their products or services.

If Anovos did become insolvent or close down, the likelihood its licenses would be picked up is negligible at best. It is more likely the IP would view the failure of Anovos to be due in part to a lack of interest by consumers for the product.

You may not use Pandora but considering it is included in the entertainment systems of many new vehicles, millions of others are using it. You may not use an iPhone but you'd be hard pressed to suggest it isn't one of the best selling phones---ever.

So you couln't possibly with a straight face suggest consumers in general would be better off if those products and serves weren't around.

 

[OCDChad]

If Anovos did become insolvent or close down, the likelihood its licenses would be picked up is negligible at best. It is more likely the IP would view the failure of Anovos to be due in part to a lack of interest by consumers for the product.

You may not use Pandora but considering it is included in the entertainment systems of many new vehicles, millions of others are using it. You may not use an iPhone but you'd be hard pressed to suggest it isn't one of the best selling phones---ever.

So you couln't possibly with a straight face suggest consumers in general would be better off if those products and serves weren't around.

I'm not saying that about those companies, I'm saying it about Anovos.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

It's a good start, sure. But it's too late for this kind of fluffy tone. Dana and I (Joe) started ANOVOS as fans with a passion for making costumes and props at a professional level. > Gimme a break.

To me, this is the saddest part of the whole thing. Dana and Joe go back a long way in this community. As to Dana, I did not start knowing very well until I started getting involved in NuBSG replicas while the show was airing. Joe however I knew back when this community was just a couple of pages of one forum on the SWFANS.NET board. One of the issues I was very vocal about was trying to warn potential buyers about the risks they may face dealing with particular sellers. There were many type of issues and one or more might be a factor depending on the seller. Some were people who took the money and ran. Some delivered very crappy products. Some had good products but there delivery times and communication were horrible. Some made a lot of broken promises until they either felt obligated to deliver the item or refund payment. These guys know better... or at least I thought they did.

Based on the letters, I just feel that Joe and Dana understand why customers are upset.

I have found that most buyers are very easy to please as long as you:
1. Keep the buyer informed in a proactive manner. Don't wait for the buyer to ask, tell them as soon as you know something is not going as planned.
2. Be honest. Don't say something you hope is going to be true or something to keep them off your back for a few weeks.
3. Deliver a quality product at or above expectations.

For me, this is the biggest thing. I am baffled by the huge discrepancies in ETA and actual delivery dates. How do you start a pre-sale on an item for a ETA in 3 month. Then miss the date and push it another 3 months, then miss it and push it, push it, and push until almost 3 years later. I can only figure it one of the following.
1. Anovos has a lack of understanding the production/manufacturing process.
2. They don't respect the customers enough to give them realistic delivery times.
3. A bit of 1 and a bit of 2.

As mentioned before by me and several others, they need to hold off taking pre-sale payments until much later in the manufacturing product when they can get a more accurate idea of ETA. Not only is this practice causing grief with the customers, but I cannot imagine it helps Anovos' bottom line. Here is the way I see it... Look at the Solo holster which they took early payments with some reduced for early tier pricing. Once they took the money, they had to go back for redesign of the item and the tools, prolonged issues in manufacturing, Holsters had to be stored for about a year till other issues such as tools and packaging were worked out. Final products had to be shipped in three different shipments. 1. holster, 2. tools, 3. extra buckle because they packed the wrong one in the original box. R&D, time, storage, labor, extra replacement parts, shipping, shipping supplies, customer services ... this all takes money. These are costs that need to be known because they need to be utilized to come up with a MSRP. As a result, they probably took a huge hit in their profit margin. You think they are going eat that cost? Nope, you know that helmet you bought? They had to jack up the sale price of that to cover costs. But guess what, they did the same thing with that helmet and now they have to jack up the price of the tunic to cover those loses. And so on... and so on... and so on...

The moving of manufacturing items to the US is going to help a few issues but it is not the big answer they need. I know that there is a lot of US made pride out there but I can tell you that you can have good and bad manufactures domestic and overseas. It is up to Anovos to do there homework and ensure that they are dealing with the type of company they want. If there old manufacture was a problem, Anovos is still the one to blame because they ultimately selected them in the first place as well as it was their responsibility to stay informed of production and delays. The US manufacturing will help in that it will probably knock a month of shipping time and they are more likely to take more trips to the factory to check in. If they were not doing it before overseas, they need to hire someone as their own QA to oversee production at the factory. I would also expect that US made will increase the MSRP. That's usually why products are made overseas. Even with the cost of overseas shipping, it usually is still result in lower costs.

 

[USS Endeav]

I'm not saying that about those companies, I'm saying it about Anovos.

Then I disagree. You've stated that is what you think, but why. Why wouldn't consumers be benefited from Anovos adapting, improving and earning back the consumers trust? How is their closure better?

 

[DiggsBarklightr]

Then I disagree. You've stated that is what you think, but why. Why wouldn't consumers be benefited from Anovos adapting, improving and earning back the consumers trust? How is their closure better?

They've had quite a few years to do so and have not done so. Read my post to your question in the other thread as to why for further details. Not sure what you don't understand about why people are upset when they have money invested into a product they don't have. It's very simple.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

If Anovos did become insolvent or close down, the likelihood its licenses would be picked up is negligible at best. It is more likely the IP would view the failure of Anovos to be due in part to a lack of interest by consumers for the product.

So you are saying that the Disney/LFL business unit involved in merchandising is just going to guess as to why a product category failed?

 

[USS Endeav]

They've had quite a few years to do so and have not done so. Read my post to your question in the other thread as to why for further details. Not sure what you don't understand about why people are upset when they have money invested into a product they don't have. It's very simple.

I'm not disputing the cause of why people are angered with Anovos. Just trying to validate the notion that the consumer is better served by the companies closure over its improvement, both in operations and product. I think of GM as an example. Many called for the company to be closed, perhaps sold off to competitors or flat out dissolved. If that had happened, a car sitting in my garage would not be there and the closest competitor would have commanded another $75k, easily for a comparable vehicle. The thrill I get when I drive that car, I for one am glad GM is still around.

I suspect I'll feel the same about Anovos, should they turn things around. Until then, I am not rooting for their failings to amount to closure.

So you are saying that the Disney/LFL business unit involved in merchandising is just going to guess as to why a product category failed?

No, I'm suggesting that those entities will do what ever internal review they need to and as part of that review, an examination of Anovos will assuredly be included. I wouldn't foresee them just jumping right into bed with another company.

 

[Psab keel]

The problem is that they offered too many products too soon. Rather than delivering a handful and slowly building the line from there they kept offering items to coincide with each new film release. Given the time it takes to produce each item and keep quality up no wonder they haven't delivered!

It's the triangle. You want it cheap, fast, and high quality. You can't have all three. To make screen accurate costumes for mass consumption is impossible. It takes a team of skilled professionals to make a single costume for these movies. Or one dedicated fan who will slave for months to get every detail right.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

No, I'm suggesting that those entities will do what ever internal review they need to and as part of that review, an examination of Anovos will assuredly be included. I wouldn't foresee them just jumping right into bed with another company.

That's my point. If Anovos went down, it is not because a demand for that sort of product was low. I think the reason so many here're pissed is because we want their product and even willing to pay the asking price. Anovos is just not handling their business as well as they could be.

The other thing is that licensing is two sided. Not only is Disney/LFL looking for the best company to sell their license in order to get the greatest return. It is also the company looking to bu the license is only dealing with Disney/LFL because they feel they have the ability to profit from the license. Disney is going to get money no matter what by selling the license. It's not a matter of "if". It's a matter who best can be the most profitable and better represent their property because the more the company sells, the more they get in a part of those sales.

 

[Psab keel]

From a marketing standpoint I'd guess that Lucasfilm sees the demand for high end costumes for fans, but doesn't fully understand the high standards the fans have for these products. Again the triangle is keeping these companies from succeeding and subsequently they fold, lose the license, or give it up. Even the best of the best high end pieces from every one of these companies tends to be a limited run of said piece because it's easier to keep the quality high. No matter what companies try to tell you about how they want to keep the collectibles value up, they are likely saying that because they couldn't possibly keep the quality to that level if they mass produced.

That's why I've maintained that fan made items are always better because we can spend the time to make something to exacting specs in ways that will either custom fit us ( in the case of a costume) or satisfy our critical eye that a mass produced piece never could. Even Anovos has some sort of notes on how to get a custom fit for their soft good items. To me the further proof is how often fans modify mass produced pieces to suit our needs.

The Custom Saber Shop is a good example of an entire business that was partially built on an aftermarket to convert FX sabers into functional dueling sabers.

Again what we are talking about are two different businesses in a larger sense. Either mass production or custom high end pieces made in limited quantities.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

The problem is that they offered too many products too soon. Rather than delivering a handful and slowly building the line from there they kept offering items to coincide with each new film release. Given the time it takes to produce each item and keep quality up no wonder they haven't delivered!

The number of products may not be an issue. We are not privy to their production/manufacturing resources. They may have enough people developing projects and manufactures with large enough capabilities to handle the amount of different products. Now, if a product is being delayed because it cannot continue till another product is complete or moving to the next phase, then yes, they may need to slow down the offerings or figure out a way to fix the bottleneck.

However...

It really should not matter. They just need to stop offering pre-orders so early in production. If they simply waited till the final stages of production and offered pre-sales at the point where they could ensure an ETA say around 4 months out. People would be happy. Think about it. If Anovos came out with a biker trooper helmet today and said it would be delivered in August... and it was, would you care if actually took 4 years to get made or that it was also in development with 20 other items that you also was not aware of? Probably not because you had no idea it was getting made nor did you give them any money at that time.

 

[Psab keel]

Absolutely! I'm saying they shouldn't offer those products or even make them known to the public until they are in house and ready to ship.

I don't care how long it takes to develop it. I don't care what their production problems are. Just deliver what the customer paid for. I work in retail and believe me, we are a FAR more patient group than 98% of the general public.

A preorder for a product that is only half finished is an empty promise. This comes to mind:

 

[USS Endeav]

That's my point. If Anovos went down, it is not because a demand for that sort of product was low. I think the reason so many here're pissed is because we want their product and even willing to pay the asking price. Anovos is just not handling their business as well as they could be.

The other thing is that licensing is two sided. Not only is Disney/LFL looking for the best company to sell their license in order to get the greatest return. It is also the company looking to bu the license is only dealing with Disney/LFL because they feel they have the ability to profit from the license. Disney is going to get money no matter what by selling the license. It's not a matter of "if". It's a matter who best can be the most profitable and better represent their property because the more the company sells, the more they get in a part of those sales.

On that, I can't disagree. I myself have been waiting some time for a few costumes. I can certainly respect someones complain either in this thread or elsewhere that he lost out on not one, not two but three halloween festivities because his costume hasn't arrived. That would bother me as well and I feel a certain amount of concern because I will want to revisit the Vegas con soon and if my costumes don't arrive, I'll be missing out as well.

I can only hope the licenses themselves are not in jeopardy. It would most assuredly be bad for all concerned.

From a marketing standpoint I'd guess that Lucasfilm sees the demand for high end costumes for fans, but doesn't fully understand the high standards the fans have for these products. Again the triangle is keeping these companies from succeeding and subsequently they fold, lose the license, or give it up. Even the best of the best high end pieces from every one of these companies tends to be a limited run of said piece because it's easier to keep the quality high. No matter what companies try to tell you about how they want to keep the collectibles value up, they are likely saying that because they couldn't possibly keep the quality to that level if they mass produced.

That's why I've maintained that fan made items are always better because we can spend the time to make something to exacting specs in ways that will either custom fit us ( in the case of a costume) or satisfy our critical eye that a mass produced piece never could. Even Anovos has some sort of notes on how to get a custom fit for their soft good items. To me the further proof is how often fans modify mass produced pieces to suit our needs.

The Custom Saber Shop is a good example of an entire business that was partially built on an aftermarket to convert FX sabers into functional dueling sabers.

Again what we are talking about are two different businesses in a larger sense. Either mass production or custom high end pieces made in limited quantities.

My friend collects superhero figurines, mostly from a company in asia that hand paints them to an exacting detail. I don't recall the name as I don't collect them but he showed me a few and the facial features are creepy accurate. That company also does a limited run of things and as a result, prices from both authorized resellers and secondhand skyrocket out of control. In a sense, that is a double edged sword. The company did the right thing to maintain quality and not bite more than can be chewed BUT now consumers wanting the product essentially have to fight over the supply.

There are no clear winners.