An apology to all of you... Raz Thread.

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DARKSIDE72

Sr Member
Fellow RPF members,

I would like to take a minute to apologize to everyone for some of my actions
Sunday towards a few members who chimed in on the G.R. thread. Some things were said which prompted me to completely loose my head. It was a stressful morning and some things really hit too close to home.

I want to thank the staff for talking to me, and also to those who supported the values of the issue.

I understand we all have different ways of looking at life and deal with troublesome issues in different ways. My anger got the best of me, lets face it, many of us were angry. However the intense hatred I conveyed in my words was disturbing,the list I added to my sig was also a pretty nasty thing to do. I could have said and done things differently, for that I am sorry.

That being said I will never agree with the opinions/views of the people who were apologetic towards GR. Maybe someday you will realize some crimes committed towards others are simply not forgivable in society. For your sake I hope they are not people too close to you.

I check in on the board several times a day to see what's new and have been a member since 99'. (yea yea I screwed up the post tranfer deal when the board moved) Some of my best friends if life,I have met here. The board is a haven for the passions I have in common with all of you. Staff, if you feel like my actions are worthy of a ban, then do as you must.

I do not wish to re-open any wounds, nor start a flame thread. The issue needs to be put behind us, however we should never forget. I hope this can turn into a healing thread for those dirrectly effected by GR and also a healing thread for those who have been effected in real life by the type of crimes he commited as I was. As it stands the issue was brushed under the carpet. I think you can talk amongst yourselfs as adults and keep it civil. As for me, I've said my peace.

Best regards,

Jamie
 

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KarlBud420

Well-Known Member
It takes a real man to try and understand the point of view of others. Everybody gets heated from time to time. Let's all just "move along, move along."

:thumbsup

Bruce
 

Kris

Sr Member
Well, as one of the 'Raz defenders', I can just say, no hard feelings. Things did get nasty, and sometimes tuff happens. At least you stand up, and say it got out of hand, and that is a good thing. I appreciate it.


Sincerely Yours,
Kris
 

Gojira61

Sr Member
Takes a big man to make a post like that Jamie, my feeling on the matter ran pretty close to yours and with such a heated topic it is sometimes hard to keep a cool head.

The whole issue tended to be much more touchy of a subject with those of us that have been around here for a while and we can get a bit protective of our online prop family. I've come to know people that have been here from the start that I proudly call friends.

Hopefully this whole matter will pull all us "old timers" together and make the board better than ever for us and the new folks that have and will come along.

Jim
 

gavidoc

Well-Known Member
Nice of you to apologize James, but gotta tell ya man....If you're sorry, you're sorry.

Why throw salt in the wound? Just say you're sorry and be done with it. No explanation, or anything like that.

Kind of read it as: "I'm sorry, but you're all still poopyheads and besides, I was angry."


BTW, I agree with you. :)
 

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MattMunson

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Rats. And here I thought you were fully and rightfully justified in what you said. But that's just me, and maybe I missed one of your posts :)
 

SG Merc

Well-Known Member
It's easy to get immature in online debates (as overwhelmingly evident in the thread in question). But it is good to see someone regretting their heated actions (towards other opinionated members if nothing else).

Forgiveness is an act of compassion.

What goes around comes around.

Just keep your current mentality in the back of your mind, and, then next time, thing's will be cool.

-SGM
 

Noeland

Sr Member
Hey, it's that kind of subject. It makes people angry, and it can make good people do bad things they would not normally do, or even think about.

I am still rather stunned and sad over it all Jamie. The acts that is, not the subject thread. I for one don't feel anyone owes any apologies over what was posted in the thread. It was what it was, and there was some utterly raw emotion and honesty posted there.

And I think the mods handled it well.

You take care Jamie.

Noeland---------------------------------------
 

synasp

Sr Member
Jamie, you demonstrated what can go wrong when emotions get so mixed up in the moment, but most importantly, you've showed us with your apology that there is good in all things.

Willingness to accept other's opinions regardless of our own beliefs and moving on is one of the hardest things to do. You let us know why you did what you did, and let us see that you didn't truly mean malice. I think much more of you for taking this step many of us don't recognize to take, or are unable or unwilling to.

And I mirror your sentiment about healing and moving on. It hit all of us pretty hard, and for a moment created division in our community--all for one person who isn't worth the pain. My hat's off to you for taking the high ground, and helping with the healing process. Peace to us all...


David
 

Durasteel Corporation

Well-Known Member
I will say I also lost my clarity of thought on a few threads lately (due to stress as well).

I too think what your doing is stand up bro. We all do dumb stuff. We all same regretful things....but it takes balls to admit it, so you should be commended. :)
 

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mverta

Sr Member
How about instead of apologies we exercise the .00001% of restraint necessary to avoid posting reactionary, abusive messages on forums?

It's no great act of character to say you're sorry when you realize you still want to be a part of the community you just acted like an ass towards. Keeping your self-respect, respect for others and self-restraint intact at all times is the mark of character.

I'm not singling you out; I see this on forums everyday: odious, hurtful and abusive posts followed 24-48 hours by, "Sorry, I was in a bad mood/drunk/stressed out so here's a smiley face to make everything better." Which of course, it doesn't; you can't just "take it back." So to everybody with this issue I might suggest you just write yourself a Sticky that says, "Don't Post Angry" and that way the rest of us don't have to question why we're a part of forums with people who have no self-control.





Yes, clearly I'm your man if you want a nice, righteously-indignant, superiority-laden post, but this time I'm right, so there.

_Mike
 

JediCarl

Well-Known Member
"Don't Post Angry" and that way the rest of us don't have to question why we're a part of forums with people who have no self-control.
Puh-leez.

Maybe I'm just a thick-skinned Irish guy, but I have to say that words from quasi-strangers on a computer screen have never really impacted or hurt me personally. If they did, I think I would seek counsel.

Plus, if there was ever a topic in which raw emotion is expected, it was that one. This is much ado about nothing, imho.

Jamie, you are cool to apologize and post your virtual olive branch, but I personally don't think it was necessary.

Cheers.
 
Jamie,

You said what I felt. It probably wasn't what you said but the way you said it. Maybe it wasn't quite as articulate as it could have been.

I don't think you need to apologise to anyone.

Maybe others should look in the mirror at themselves before you have to.

Anyway I agree nobody should have bad feelings towards each other it was a very sore topic and got heated.

The only person who is really guilty of anything is Guy Raz for deceiving people on the forum.

Chris.

Edited - Spelling
 

philippes

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
To err is human, to forgive divine.

In addition, I wanted to make a basic observation about the differences between Americans and other cultures in the world.

We Americans tend to come in with guns blazing immediately taking the immutable moral high-ground. And although I admire that about us, our black-and-white outlook on things has made us anathema to people in most other countries.

As a nation with a relatively short and somewhat puritanical history, we have a very difficult time dealing with the ambiguities of life, and the constant hypocrisy which constantly surrounds us.

Most of the world's countries, which often have histories at least five times older than our own, are much more accepting and understanding of the gray that makes up reality.

Of course, nations with the curse of long histories carry a difficult burden. It often makes them seem wishy-washy and indecisive on the world stage.

Nonetheless, we Americans need to learn that self-righteousness and indignation at the misunderstood opinions of others is not the way to win friends or curry favor.

As a nation founded on principles that evolved out of being persecuted, we owe it to everyone and ourselves to be particularly tolerant of others' feelings and opinions.

In fact, we have a greater responsibility than most to show that we are indeed open to the ideas and views of others, and will accept those concepts without prejudgment or rancor.

Besides, the day will come when our empire is no longer dominant. And when that moment arrives, we'll need friends who learned to be tolerant and open-minded from our shining example.

It's time for us to shed the "Ugly American" image and become the "Beautiful American."

Phil
 

Rabittooth

Well-Known Member
Why is it that we, as Americans have to accept other cultures, but ours is "ugly"?
We are what we are. Accpet it. Or don't... :)
Who cares that we're a younger culture and still developing? Doesn't make us wrong just because alot of other countries say it is.
I see that we need to continuously evolve...
Nah...we've developed an American Culture and for good or for ill...criticism won't and shouldn't make it something else.
Just because ideas and concepts aren't popular or generally shared doesn't make them wrong.

-Rabittooth
 

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Qui-Gonzalez

Master Member
Originally posted by Rabittooth@Apr 5 2006, 03:15 PM
Why is it that we, as Americans have to accept other cultures, but ours is "ugly"?
We are what we are. Accpet it. Or don't... :)
Who cares that we're a younger culture and still developing? Doesn't make us wrong just because alot of other countries say it is.
I see that we need to continuously evolve...
Nah...we've developed an American Culture and for good or for ill...criticism won't and shouldn't make it something else.
Just because ideas and concepts aren't popular or generally shared doesn't make them wrong.

-Rabittooth
[snapback]1220493[/snapback]​
Amen...preach it, brother. I am so sick to death of hearing people make excuses for America or American culture. I don't think our culture is any more or less flawed than British, Ukrainian, Usbekistany, Nigerian...you get my point? For all of our "Americanisms", we are still a people with a huge influence on the world.

For all the talk of how young our culture is, name me one that has remained constant since it's inception and I will agree. The French had their revolution, so the base of their culture is actually younger than ours. The British are no longer absolutely ruled by the Queen/monarchy, but instead by Parliament. America is not as young as we would like to think. That is neither here nor there in the discussion though.

Darkside, you had some venomous things to say, and I wish I could say I disagree with them, but I do not. The whole fiasco was a polarizing factor for us as a community and you were merely more vocal than others about it. That is it...nothing more.
 

IndyBlues

Sr Member
Originally posted by Rabittooth@Apr 5 2006, 03:15 PM
Why is it that we, as Americans have to accept other cultures, but ours is "ugly"?
We are what we are. Accpet it. Or don't... :)
Who cares that we're a younger culture and still developing? Doesn't make us wrong just because alot of other countries say it is.
I see that we need to continuously evolve...
Nah...we've developed an American Culture and for good or for ill...criticism won't and shouldn't make it something else.
Just because ideas and concepts aren't popular or generally shared doesn't make them wrong.

-Rabittooth
[snapback]1220493[/snapback]​
Here, here. Well said, Rab.
'Blues
 

philippes

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Unfortunately, the self-righteous are too self righteous to understand their own self-righteousness.

Phil
 

philippes

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Regardless, Jamie's post here was brave and honorable.

When I was browsing this forum during the recent fiasco, and I saw that list, I was horrified, but resigned to the fact that it was a typical reaction.

I was once given a document of Thomas Jefferson sayings that marked me as a boy. One of them said, "When angry, count to ten. When very angry, count to one hundred."

Phil
 

Boba Debt

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I could be wrong but I did not get the impression that Jamie understood or accepted the opinions of the Raz supporters.

He said he could understand that people have different opinions but he also stated that he could never agree with those that supported Raz.


I don't think and apology was necessary either.

Some crimes are so heinous that the discussion of them will illicit angry and in this case your angry was justified.
 

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