Alien: Covenant (Prometheus Sequel)

[Bryancd]

The Nostromo crew is not all blue collars. Obviously, there's a Captain, second officer in command, flight officer, science officer, etc...I would only say that Yaphet and Harry D. could wear the "blue collar" label more easily than the others. Ash is Hal from "2001 A Space Odyssey": clear mission and mandate, works hand in hand with "Muther" the main computer on board.
The mission and its success is simple: get to the surface, explore/investigate and come back with something, no matter what (human crew expendable). That's why Ash didn't respect the orders given to him by second officer Ripley(while Dallas, as Captain, should've known better than to ask to open the doors with a unknown "thing" attached to the face of one of his crew member:behave:rolleyes)

Ash is evasive with his knowledge/research of the Alien. He knows more than the crew will know and it shows throughout the movie (keeping the crew from killing the Alien after it emerges from Kane's body is one and his "detector" is no better at detecting clearly the creature while in the air ducts of the ship).

As for returning for the cat, in real life the cat is also expendable (go to the store and buy another one:facepalm).

Are we sure that Ripley was discovered by "sheer luck"? If I was Weyland-Yutani Corp, I would be pissed if my tug and its mining load had not arrived to port after...30 years!!
They send a search party (Marines, no less) toward the last position of the ship...and yes, it took them that long (they were,after all, far from our system when they were woken up by Muther).

Yeah Parker and Brett are blue collar but the flight crew I would call journeymen, competent and skilled just a bit burn out and unmotivated.

 

[SpaceCrawler]

Not that I don't agree with you to a point, but the language of your statements lays plain your extraordinary bias against Prometheus (which is OK) and I fear you run the risk of coming across as too argumentative with the way that you aim to completely downplay others' observations.

Just *my* observation.

Why would I have a bias against a film? I simply pointed out the flaws in Prometheus. That's not "bias". That's my opinion based on rational and reasonable thought. Bias implies something different.

Also, others did the same thing right back to me (oddly, without your critique and quips of "bias").

Anyway, I went into Prometheus wanting and expecting to love it (so if anything I had bias in favor of it). But it was just too flawed.

Here, I merely defended my points after people tried to counter them. This is a discussion forum, after all, so we're just discussing as if we were sitting in the same room having a friendly talk about films. Not sure why this is seen as negative. I didn't take the responses to me as "downplaying my observations", not sure why you are taking mine (and only mine) as such.

EDIT: Sorry if my words towards the Alien films (post Aliens) seem harsh- "garbage", "childish", etc. But Alien was actually a good film and the sequels really ruined the "franchise" (I hate that word). Everything that followed, to some degree, helped dumb down sci-fi cinema. I guess it all started with the mega block busters and the studios changing ownership from the old guys, who had some begrudging appreciation for quality, to new guys who favored quick profits. And I do think that's a legitimate problem we all face today- films that are dumbed down for corporate profit, and that can influence our culture to a degree. Sorry if I seem passionate about it. But I am.

Sean

 

[Birdie]

The Nostromo crew is not all blue collars. Obviously, there's a Captain, second officer in command, flight officer, science officer, etc...I would only say that Yaphet and Harry D. could wear the "blue collar" label more easily than the others. Ash is Hal from "2001 A Space Odyssey": clear mission and mandate, works hand in hand with "Muther" the main computer on board.
The mission and its success is simple: get to the surface, explore/investigate and come back with something, no matter what (human crew expendable). That's why Ash didn't respect the orders given to him by second officer Ripley(while Dallas, as Captain, should've known better than to ask to open the doors with a unknown "thing" attached to the face of one of his crew member:behave:rolleyes)

Ash is evasive with his knowledge/research of the Alien. He knows more than the crew will know and it shows throughout the movie (keeping the crew from killing the Alien after it emerges from Kane's body is one and his "detector" is no better at detecting clearly the creature while in the air ducts of the ship).

As for returning for the cat, in real life the cat is also expendable (go to the store and buy another one:facepalm).

Are we sure that Ripley was discovered by "sheer luck"? If I was Weyland-Yutani Corp, I would be pissed if my tug and its mining load had not arrived to port after...30 years!!
They send a search party (Marines, no less) toward the last position of the ship...and yes, it took them that long (they were,after all, far from our system when they were woken up by Muther).

The point is that they are are a commercial concern, the equivalent of the UK Merchant Navy. They are not military, clearly not drilled or particularly disciplined They all just want to get home and cash their cheques. The early part of the movie sets Ripley up as a kind of pain-in-the-ass company gal who even Dallas seems to find faintly irritating. The airlock scene initially seems to re-inforce this, but we come to see that it's part of her arc - clear thinking, practical and ultimately the survivor. Dallas does his best, but he clearly isn't strong leader material. In the airlock he's panicked, has a man down and does what he thinks is best. Not dumb, just human in an unparalleled situation.

As for the cat, I guess you are not a pet owner. My cat does not approve, but he's clearly biased.

 

[Bryancd]

Red band trailer...

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/tr...nd-trailer-reveals-creepy-dissection#/slide/1

 

[SpaceCrawler]

Are we sure that Ripley was discovered by "sheer luck"? If I was Weyland-Yutani Corp, I would be pissed if my tug and its mining load had not arrived to port after...30 years!!
They send a search party (Marines, no less) toward the last position of the ship...and yes, it took them that long (they were,after all, far from our system when they were woken up by Muther).

Didn't they say this in Aliens? That it was pure luck she had drifted into some far off shipping lane and been discovered by a salvage crew after 50 years of whatever it was?

Sean

 

[Snikt]

Of course we all say this *now*... because we've made it a classic, and we love it.

But when i first saw it (in 1979) I still thought--like we do in most horror genre movies--"Why on earth are you doing *that* "? "Don't go in THERE!" That sort of thing.

The point is that our opinion of things changes greatly over time... it's inevitable. And there's no doubt that Alien has held up VERY well. But it didn't have legendary status when it was released. Things change.

I as catching up on this thread, and I read your post and what you said kind of made me laugh. Nothing has legendary status when its released, thats not what a legend is. The reasons why it BECOMES legend is what everyone else is trying to explain here. Alien was amazing on all fronts, a movie from 1979 holds up today. You really think anyone will be talking about Prometheus in that amount of time? Of course not. That movie was trash, and the reason Alien is a classic, isnt because *we* made it a classic, its because its a genuinely good, genre defining film. The "things change" of your argument just resonate weird with me I guess. Name one thing that has "legendary status" when it was released. Hell, Citizen Kane was almost a career ruiner when it was released, and the studio almost went under. Now its hailed as one of, if not the best movies of all time.

 

[kristen jones]

Why would I have a bias against a film? I simply pointed out the flaws in Prometheus. That's not "bias". That's my opinion based on rational and reasonable thought. Bias implies something different.

Also, others did the same thing right back to me (oddly, without your critique and quips of "bias").

Anyway, I went into Prometheus wanting and expecting to love it (so if anything I had bias in favor of it). But it was just too flawed.

Here, I merely defended my points after people tried to counter them. This is a discussion forum, after all, so we're just discussing as if we were sitting in the same room having a friendly talk about films. Not sure why this is seen as negative. I didn't take the responses to me as "downplaying my observations", not sure why you are taking mine (and only mine) as such.

EDIT: Sorry if my words towards the Alien films (post Aliens) seem harsh- "garbage", "childish", etc. But Alien was actually a good film and the sequels really ruined the "franchise" (I hate that word). Everything that followed, to some degree, helped dumb down sci-fi cinema. I guess it all started with the mega block busters and the studios changing ownership from the old guys, who had some begrudging appreciation for quality, to new guys who favored quick profits. And I do think that's a legitimate problem we all face today- films that are dumbed down for corporate profit, and that can influence our culture to a degree. Sorry if I seem passionate about it. But I am.

Sean

I think you're being a bit defensive, considering what I said. It was hardly a personal attack--or a "critique", as you put it. I stated that you seemed to have a strong bias against Prometheus (which I also stated was just fine) and that you seemed a bit argumentative with the others.

I am well aware that this is a forum for discussion, and I never made any statements which would lead a reasonable person to assume otherwise. My point was that it isn't necessary to make everyone else completely wrong in order for you to also have a valid point.

Your choice of words do seem a bit harsh at times.. and yes, others' choices sometimes seem a bit extreme in the same vein. But my comment to you was an observation that your specific responses to the last few posts seemed a bit overbearing. If you don't agree, then fair enough. No need to wax defensive... I'm only a girl after all. ;-)

 

[SpaceCrawler]

I think you're being a bit defensive, considering what I said. It was hardly a personal attack--or a "critique", as you put it. I stated that you seemed to have a strong bias against Prometheus (which I also stated was just fine) and that you seemed a bit argumentative with the others.

I am well aware that this is a forum for discussion, and I never made any statements which would lead a reasonable person to assume otherwise. My point was that it isn't necessary to make everyone else completely wrong in order for you to also have a valid point..

?! I never accused anyone of a personal attack.
I never said everyone was completely wrong. Two people asked questions (while questioning the validity of my opinion, which you don't seem to have a problem with for some reason while you do have a problem with me answering questions put to me) and I provided answers. I hardly see that as me telling EVERYONE they are wrong. I merely answered the questions put to me.

Your choice of words do seem a bit harsh at times.. and yes, others' choices sometimes seem a bit extreme in the same vein. But my comment to you was an observation that your specific responses to the last few posts seemed a bit overbearing. If you don't agree, then fair enough. No need to wax defensive... I'm only a girl after all. ;-)

Well, I can point out a lot that seems overbearing here... but I'll refrain.

Sean

 

[kristen jones]

I as catching up on this thread, and I read your post and what you said kind of made me laugh. Nothing has legendary status when its released, thats not what a legend is. The reasons why it BECOMES legend is what everyone else is trying to explain here. Alien was amazing on all fronts, a movie from 1979 holds up today. You really think anyone will be talking about Prometheus in that amount of time? Of course not. That movie was trash, and the reason Alien is a classic, isnt because *we* made it a classic, its because its a genuinely good, genre defining film. The "things change" of your argument just resonate weird with me I guess. Name one thing that has "legendary status" when it was released. Hell, Citizen Kane was almost a career ruiner when it was released, and the studio almost went under. Now its hailed as one of, if not the best movies of all time.

Well, I'm glad you had a good laugh, mate.

However, i think you missed the point of what i'd posted... which i'd thought was clear when I'd said that we "made it a classic". Do you not see the conflict in your post? One the one hand you acknowledge that no film starts out a legend, but then you turn and say that Alien isn't a legend because we made it one. Which is it, then? Was it a legend from the start, or did we--as a culture, with our years of love and affinity for a movie that we cherish--make it one?

THAT was the point that I was making: that we don't always think something is as awesome the first time that we see it as we do after years of repeat viewings, and sharing of the experience with others. That process changes the way that we view the original material; enhances it. I really don't think that can be denied.

Alien wasn't universally accepted as "Amazing on all fronts" in 1979. That viewpoint emerged after years of fans appreciating it. And in that process we often times gloss over little niggling things in favour of the whole which we love. Granted it's easier to do with some movies over others, but nonetheless hindsight isn't *always* 20/20.... it's often very subjective.

Nobody is disputing that Alien is a "genuinely good, genre defining film". But it wasn't considered "genre defining" in 1979, and that was the point I was trying to make while you were laughing. That observation is made in hindsight. And it's foolish to constantly compare something which has had the benefit of decades of fan love attached to it to something like Prometheus, which does not. It isn't exactly an even comparison.

Though it should be clear, I'll go ahead and underscore that I'm not suggestion that Prometheus holds a candle to Alien. That is rather the point: that you ought not compare the two and expect the former to measure up to the latter. We all know that it doesn't. I'm not arguing that it does... I'm arguing that we are all a little guilty of glorifying Alien just a bit because we love it. The same thing happens with the Star Wars OT (and I LOVE that, too) but the fact remains that we let some of these movies slide a bit on things that honestly were a bit dodgey at the time. Just because Prometheus is more dodgey doesn't mean that Alien has 0 flaws. THAT was what i was trying to point out.

 

[kristen jones]

?! I never accused anyone of a personal attack.
I never said everyone was completely wrong. Two people asked questions (while questioning the validity of my opinion, which you don't seem to have a problem with for some reason while you do have a problem with me answering questions put to me) and I provided answers. I hardly see that as me telling EVERYONE they are wrong. I merely answered the questions put to me.



Well, I can point out a lot that seems overbearing here... but I'll refrain.

Sean

Probably a wise move. ;-) ;-)

 

[Bryancd]

I think it's more accurate to say A L I E N defined a new genre and that was clear immediately after its release, within a few years Ridley made Blade Runner which had a similar look and aesthetic and Outland which really copied the design that A L I E N invented.

and hello, red band trailer I posted above, back on topic!

 

[kristen jones]

agreed... back on topic.

 

[Birdie]

Is it me, or is that redband identical to the previous one, save a shot of some burnt/mummified corpse?

 

[cratercritter]

Hey Spacecrawler ..... You need to see some of the movie again.... the scenes you described. When the hugger removed itself from Kane...he was still in a deep sleep state. Some time later, he awoke and was drinking quite a lot of water. Whether he wanted to eat or not does not matter... the fact is they did not scan him in the interim to see what that hugger bugger did to him on the inside. Yes...I agree with you again though...it all does not matter anyway. Ash the trash who deserved a bash had a lot of control and manipulated what he could..... crew expendable.

 

[Bryancd]

Is it me, or is that redband identical to the previous one, save a shot of some burnt/mummified corpse?

A disected Engineer and I think the girl being sprayed with blood in the shower.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey Spacecrawler ..... You need to see some of the movie again.... the scenes you described. When the hugger removed itself from Kane...he was still in a deep sleep state. Some time later, he awoke and was drinking quite a lot of water. Whether he wanted to eat or not does not matter... the fact is they did not scan him in the interim to see what that hugger bugger did to him on the inside. Yes...I agree with you again though...it all does not matter anyway. Ash the trash who deserved a bash had a lot of control and manipulated what he could..... crew expendable.

Oh, no doubt Ash knew exactly what was happening inside Kane and simply hid it from the crew, he's the only medical person on the ship and they have no reason to not trust him.

 

[SpaceCrawler]

Hey Spacecrawler ..... You need to see some of the movie again.... the scenes you described. When the hugger removed itself from Kane...he was still in a deep sleep state. Some time later, he awoke and was drinking quite a lot of water. Whether he wanted to eat or not does not matter... the fact is they did not scan him in the interim to see what that hugger bugger did to him on the inside. Yes...I agree with you again though...it all does not matter anyway. Ash the trash who deserved a bash had a lot of control and manipulated what he could..... crew expendable.

We don't know how much time passed. But it is irrelevant anyway. How does the amount of time passing do anything to make the characters dumb, as you claimed? You said they didn't scan Kane (they did, watch the movie, Ash was hiding the results, the crew had no way to know this).

I merely said all this happened in a relatively short time span.The facehugger fell off, they were dealing with that, then Kane woke up, etc. The time that passed doesn't make the characters dumb. You can critique the story but to try and compare the illogical moments in Prometheus with something you forgot about in Alien or something you didn't like in Alien is apples and oranges, IMO.

Also, as Bryancd (and I) said - Ash was in charge of medical/science, the "scanning". Why would the crew suspect he was keeping things from them?

So any questions in Alien you may have are actually logically inferred or directly answered by the film itself, unlike Prometheus.


Sean

 

[Soulinertia]

I'm just going to enjoy this as a random horror sci-fi slasher and not as part of the ALIEN franchise. I think I'll enjoy it much more if I go into it with this mind set.

 

[Snikt]

A disected Engineer and I think the girl being sprayed with blood in the shower.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh, no doubt Ash knew exactly what was happening inside Kane and simply hid it from the crew, he's the only medical person on the ship and they have no reason to not trust him.

Also the girl said the F word when she wanted to get out of the medical bay. I was hoping to see more for a redband trailer though honestly. Oh well.

 

[Clutch]

This is gonna be bad.

 

[JiminSTLouis]

Oh, no doubt Ash knew exactly what was happening inside Kane and simply hid it from the crew, he's the only medical person on the ship and they have no reason to not trust him.

I think Ash was watching the alien inside Kane on a monitor in sickbay when he was surprised by Ripley coming up behind him. He immediately turned the monitor off.

And right before the chest burst, Ash was watching him closely.