AA case begins
- Thread starter Jumpin Jax
- Start date
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
Though I’m not discounting the strength of LFL’s case in any way, I don’t believe they would hold up much hope they could convince the court there was a verbal contract in place.
Both sides seem to have already agreed that the first engagement was via a 3rd party, to the extent that IIRC SDS’s initial invoice for Stormtrooper helmets (and possibly armour) was to this 3rd party company and not LFL/Star Wars Corp.
IMO the fact that A (at least initially) traded with B, who passed on the work to C - makes it difficult suggest A and C had a verbal contract - not least as this is backed by a paper trail.
Cheers
Jez
Jeff Parks beat LFL TWICE in court. So usually yes, but not always.
IF AA were to win, what appeal would LFL have as an option?
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Onigiri
Sr Member
Apparently you missed what I was saying : Yes, some fan manufacturers charged big bucks because it COST them big bucks to get their hands on the originals to reproduce. This was NOT the case with AA...AA was motivated in his pricing solely by greed if we are to believe he had all these materials on hand already. AA is NOT a cottage industry but a business. He HAS no excuse other than greed. I thought I was pretty clear in my wording. Ive worked in the industry and his costs were no where NEAR what he was charging. He charged based on rarity and 'authenticity' which is, at the very least, EXTREMELY questionable.
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defstartrooper
Sr Member
atacpdx the Judge Judy remark was not intended to be snarky it was purely a tongue in cheek quip, I apologise if it was recieved in a manner that was not intended i guess that's the peril of the dry Brit humour.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
Yeah, but that was a bit different. I think Parks' deal was to make Graflex flash tubes. The Graflex was not designed as a lightsaber. The Stormtrooper was designed, by McQuarrie...well, to be in Star Wars. LFL did not own Graflex.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Sorry i don't see it as greed when you factor in the costs of running a business.
And yes he is a business and as a business you are of course going to price your product as highly can sell it for, the only time a business will sell for low profit margins per piece is if they can produce large volumes in a short space of time something which he clearly couldn't do as the long delivery times on his products showed, or if you happen to have a warehouse full of stock you need to get rid of.
Personally yes i think his prices are high and i won't pay them but it seems clear to me there is a market for his goods at the prices he set or he wouldn't be selling anything
Not to sidetrack, I thought at least one of Park's cases with LFL involved a contract violation for C1 where the fan club kicked him out per LFL's orders when they had no right to do so.
-Gary
Onigiri
Sr Member
Really? This is the HUB of Star Wars collecting. How many...what percentage of...collectors here own something from AA now? And WHAT stock? The way I understand it he pretty much makes things to order. Flat sheets of plastic are easy to store and I guarantee he doesnt have a lot of 'stock' sitting around in boxes waiting to go out. Sorry, my family has owned retail businesses and I have worked in prop production here in Hollywood so Im not talkiing out my a$$. AA was in a position wherein he could have made a lot more by charging less. His overhead was no greater AFTER making these helmets in his shop then before. He also would have undercut the 'fanmade' helmets out there (which Im sure was a concern to others). I think all around he has done nothing but piss people off.
He poo pooed LFL
He didnt include some of the fan artisans in his deal thereby alienating them and drawing their fire and ire
He charged way too much
He is a liar
AA is EXACTLY where he put himself because he is an idiot and the only thing worse then an idiot is a greedy lying idiot.
NO pity
He poo pooed LFL
He didnt include some of the fan artisans in his deal thereby alienating them and drawing their fire and ire
He charged way too much
He is a liar
AA is EXACTLY where he put himself because he is an idiot and the only thing worse then an idiot is a greedy lying idiot.
NO pity
That is correct. The point was it's not always the one with the most money that wins.
Well I agree he could have sold a heck of a lot more helmets charging less but it's a small company and I am guessing he could only turn out so many at a time? As someone mentioned they are not coming from China...
I'm not sure why you are showing him no pity because he didn't trust the makers of fanmade helmets enough to partner with them in his fledgling business? What does he owe them? Thanks for telling him he could make a lot of money? :rolleyes
You are right however that he is exactly where he is on account of his own decisions. But it's up to his lawyers at this point...
My deference to the legal experts here as I was mistaken about the UK law in regard to oral contracts. But I've not heard of anything in LFL's account that claims B was an agent of A and therefore C was incumbent to B contractually.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
There you go you answered your own question regarding pricing he makes his stuff to order all handbuilt by a small team of people not some factory, that takes time to do.
Yeah sure he could have sold the helmets for $150 a piece and gotten 50 times the number of orders he has but whats the point in having orders you can't fill ?
As it was at the prices he does sell for he struggled keeping up infact he didn't keep up, from memory i believe the site used to say 4-6 weeks delivery on the helmets when they were averaging more like 20 weeks so demand was obviously at least 3-4 times higher than he expected.
Oh and i said they only reasons a company would sell their stuff for lower margins was if they had a huge stock to shift or could produce on a large scale in a short time, neither of which applies to AA i never said he kept stock.
Yeah he pi$$ed LFL of course he did he was making money on something they see as theirs.
No he didn't include those fan artisans in his deal but what deal is that exactly ? He wasn't making a deal, he didn't ask anyone if they wanted a deal, it was those artisans that approached him with their hands out looking to make a killing from his work not the other way round.
Charged too much ? well that's subjective one mans bargain is another mans ripoff.
He's a liar ? well yeah of course he has lied, you telling me you know anyone that's never lied ?
I can think of a dozens of fan prop makers and legit companys that have sold and do sell their wares with stories and claims that are untrue.
Nature of the beast im afraid.
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Onigiri
Sr Member
you dont get it and youre assuming. You came up with $150 not me and there is a HUGE difference between $150 and $800 so exagerating doesnt help your case. AA ran the shop...he didnt finish the helmets and it seems apparent that, like them or not, folks like Gino and TE seem to have a better grasp on SDS product then Andrew does. Also, I never said he SHOULD have made a deal with the fan makers but by recasting them and blowing them off he made enemies. Im not saying thats right or wrong so dont assume. It simply IS. You seem to be defending the indefensible for some strange reason and therefor you force me to do this...
*slap*
I have just thrown down the "your arguments have no validity" card. Now, everytime you post you will recieve -10 damage.
Sorry
Had to do it
*slap*
I have just thrown down the "your arguments have no validity" card. Now, everytime you post you will recieve -10 damage.
Sorry
Had to do it
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Yes ok i went to an extreme with the $150 figure but nevertheless the point still remains the same, the demand he had was all or more than he could handle at the pricepoint he has made, had he lowered his pricepoint then demand would increase and you would then get everyone complaining they were waiting 6 months or more for their product.
I seem to remember many complained at the delivery times as it was, infact i was among them i actually cancelled my order i placed and told SDS i would never order from them or recommend anyone to.
Why would he do anything other than blow those people off ? would you give away a chunk of your company or profit to somebody you didn't need to ?
Yeah ok you could say Gino or TE know more about the product but as you already have pointed out he is running a business and he seems to make a fair living from that business without their input, would their input increase his income ? no not without raising the price even higher to absorb their fee, you wouldn't want that right ?
P.S i always prefered TopTrumps :thumbsup
I seem to remember many complained at the delivery times as it was, infact i was among them i actually cancelled my order i placed and told SDS i would never order from them or recommend anyone to.
Why would he do anything other than blow those people off ? would you give away a chunk of your company or profit to somebody you didn't need to ?
Yeah ok you could say Gino or TE know more about the product but as you already have pointed out he is running a business and he seems to make a fair living from that business without their input, would their input increase his income ? no not without raising the price even higher to absorb their fee, you wouldn't want that right ?
P.S i always prefered TopTrumps :thumbsup
Star Wars Helmets
Sr Member
Except that by all accounts B was not contracted to C either - other than possibly a verbal agreement. It was a real mess, people doing work for "mates of mates"!
Like I said I'm not diminishing LFL's case I just dont think the "verbal agreement" argument is their route to success.
Cheers
Jez
Jumpin Jax
Sr Member
It's called the opposite of "or else." A few perks for the effort (which was considerable) doesn't change the situation, which you have once again veered from.
Matt didn't go to LFL; he was contacted and put to work. The end.
Cooler heads than I are arguing the case here, and I leave THAT to them.
JJ
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defstartrooper
Sr Member
Well it's clear he was rewarded for doing what he did
As for any threats well we have his word for it at this point nothing more, and like AA he's not beyond telling a few porkies himself so that's not worth much.
I wonder where the venom would be spat at had it been AA talking to LFL about he who shall not be named ?
As for any threats well we have his word for it at this point nothing more, and like AA he's not beyond telling a few porkies himself so that's not worth much.
I wonder where the venom would be spat at had it been AA talking to LFL about he who shall not be named ?
You sure are putting out quite the effort to spin your buddy as a victim here but his own words betray him. Perhaps if he could learn to keep his trap shut and just let you continue to puppet for him, he would look a little better to the community but with his constant barrage of threats that he has the ability to sic LFL on his enemies, he sure doesn't look like the poor victim you would try to twist him into.
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