2001 Monolith build

[joberg]

^^
This! I'm sure that an engineer could, easily, calculate the forces exerted on the footing of that Monolith. Wind force, torsions, material used, depth and width of concrete footing. As Leinads said, you might have to pour a fairly large and deep concrete footing to avoid, over time, the tilting of the structure or even the footing coming loose if not solid and heavy enough.
Here's an idea of the concrete footing of a wind turbine:

"The vast concrete foundations that keep wind turbine towers erect are, however, hidden from view below ground. These poured-in-place foundations are 10-20 feet thick, 60 feet in diameter, weigh about two million pounds, and take 40 truckloads of concrete, or around 400 cubic yards, to construct."

So, to resume, the taller the structure and its surface against the wind/elements, the bigger the concrete footing.

 

[alan molstad]

^^
This! I'm sure that an engineer could, easily, calculate the forces exerted on the footing of that Monolith. Wind force, torsions, material used, depth and width of concrete footing. As Leinads said, you might have to pour a fairly large and deep concrete footing to avoid, over time, the tilting of the structure or even the footing coming loose if not solid and heavy enough.
Here's an idea of the concrete footing of a wind turbine:

"The vast concrete foundations that keep wind turbine towers erect are, however, hidden from view below ground. These poured-in-place foundations are 10-20 feet thick, 60 feet in diameter, weigh about two million pounds, and take 40 truckloads of concrete, or around 400 cubic yards, to construct."

So, to resume, the taller the structure and its surface against the wind/elements, the bigger the concrete footing.

well.....a big footing is out of my price range Im sure...

I need to find a way to deal with the wind, on the cheap

 

[greenmachines]

well.....a big footing is out of my price range Im sure...

I need to find a way to deal with the wind, on the cheap

Alan, you said cheap and for me that is like calling the genie out of the bottle. Anchors are your friend. Any rebar, pipe or other that will not rot. Place at 45 degrees into the soil next to the post holes. It works well if attached as a push or a pull. Push need to be touching the post in its final position and attached to tge post with a plate, wiring or similar. Pull is using that common telephone pole guide wire method. Dollar tree dog yard stakes are ridiculous cheap compared to how strong they are. Screw them into the soil and then cable the head to your posts. Also Dollar tree on heavy metal dog lead cable for dog runs. All of these ideas should be able to be submerged completely and attached to your posts at a below ground level. I'll try to get some pics.

Also, more trees or less cutting of the surrounding trees is going to be another wind deterrant but you likely already had that in mind when you picked the spot.

 

[alan molstad]

Alan, you said cheap and for me that is like calling the genie out of the bottle. Anchors are your friend. Any rebar, pipe or other that will not rot. Place at 45 degrees into the soil next to the post holes. It works well if attached as a push or a pull. Push need to be touching the post in its final position and attached to tge post with a plate, wiring or similar. Pull is using that common telephone pole guide wire method. Dollar tree dog yard stakes are ridiculous cheap compared to how strong they are. Screw them into the soil and then cable the head to your posts. Also Dollar tree on heavy metal dog lead cable for dog runs. All of these ideas should be able to be submerged completely and attached to your posts at a below ground level. I'll try to get some pics.

Also, more trees or less cutting of the surrounding trees is going to be another wind deterrant but you likely already had that in mind when you picked the spot.

I would like to see a photo of artwork showing your design

 

[greenmachines]

The pull style is the same for telephone poles and homes. The stake, the plate and the cable. Yours will need some form of tightener.

The types of steaks vary but the dollar tree has several variants on the cheap. In pets they have the screw type yard stake for dogs. In seasonal, there is the twist in stake for yard flags and the twist in stake for anchoring garden weed barrier. You are looking for any of these:

or this

A tightener (turnbuckle) like this for adjustments but not totally necessary:

 

[greenmachines]

The push style is just driving a rebar or similar past the post at 45 degrees but leaving enough of it snugged up against the post to fasten directly to the post.

Something prebuilt like this is a few dollars at lowes and home depot but can be driven past the post and bolted directly to the post through the welded loop.

 

[greenmachines]

Both are very secure but neither makes the post itself any stronger so any wind strong enough to snap the actual 4x4s will do so regardless.

Usually called earthquake or hurricane kits, all the parts are just stronger versions of pet yard anchor systems:

Hurricane kit:

dog anchor kit:

So for something much smaller than a home, the dog kit should suffice if secured from the main loop and not that silly side link.

 

[joberg]

The triangle design is the most solid one for sure

 

[greenmachines]

If you add any more rock to your cement mix just make sure it is washed first. Dirty rock does not bond but washed will and will often be the difference in price when making a weighted base. For making cement pillars just don't, it takes away the durability of the final cure. Onsite but washed rock is free but for the effort. If you want some freebie binder for pipes or rebar, use any fence wire from downed sections of fence to tie the group together before pouring cement. It is great for holding the bars in place to make the rigid shape you want.

And this last trick is a future nightmare but does make it secure.....

Bars, plates and wire wraps (extending out away from posts) attached directly to the posts before going in the ground will create the world's greatest anchor. It's like artificial roots. The issues are: The hole in the ground needs to be as big as the extending pieces. Any removal in the future is a total nightmare. Large bolts or screws in or through the 4x4s make them weaker so just enough to mount anchors but no boring through the posts if you can avoid it. Cement should cover extending pieces where possible. Usually all anchoring methods that won't show later require a lot more digging.

My dad used to use up all his old bent nails and screws doing this. The post looked like a porcupine before the cement went in the hole. We never once got one back out without the entire cement block being dug out.

Hopefully there is at least one good trick in that you hadn't already seen before.

 

[alan molstad]

I have started to dig the holes/trench for the cement to hold the support legs.

Im still thinking what Im going to do, but I think its going to come down to a lot of cement

 

[alan molstad]

ahh,,,the next issue,,,,the cement...

I have been thinking a long time about how I was going to do this, and I have been asking lots of questions of people who put up fence poles for a living.

BUT, I have also been kicking around the question of the wind tipping the whole thing over..cement or not.

The truth is, my Monolith is over 11 feet tall, but the wood 4X4s only go into the ground 4 feet????

that does not even sound like its going to work.

I need a way to do the holes for the two 4X4s and their cement, that will result in a firm base for the monolith in the wind?
and,,,,because Im an old man who is retired and lives on a fixed low income,,,,I need to find a way to do this on the cheap....to try to use things I already might have or could "find"



any ideas?

I have decided to check out the tar idea.

 

[joberg]

I have decided to check out the tar idea.

Tar is too malleable It tends to get loose after a number of years. There's high quality mix of gravel and tar (suppose to last 20 years) but it's very expensive. If there's a little crack in it, the water will infiltrate the tar and the ice and thaw/frost cycle will just expand that crack overtime.
I would stick to concrete.

 

[alan molstad]

Tar is too malleable It tends to get loose after a number of years. There's high quality mix of gravel and tar (suppose to last 20 years) but it's very expensive. If there's a little crack in it, the water will infiltrate the tar and the ice and thaw/frost cycle will just expand that crack overtime.
I would stick to concrete.

the current plan is that the cement will get up as high as i can get it, and then I will have wrapped the whole 4X4 legs in roofing tar....

and....Im near 70 years old,,,,so i think it will last my lifetime....

 

[alan molstad]

Update:

I talked to a few guys I know, and I got a lot of ideas, and I have formed a battle plan.

I have decided to try to coat the monolith while its still sitting on the ground with colored-black epoxy.

I then have talked to the guys and we got a plan for lifting the monolith into the trench I have now made ready for it.
I also talked to a guy who will let me use one of the small electric cement mixers.

I then was told about a longer ladder i can use when it is time to paint the finished Monolith once its standing .

I have many friends that are excited to help lift the monolith into place!

We shall see how these plans will need to change as things go, but for now it's nice to have an idea how play the "End Game"

 

[joberg]

Update:

I talked to a few guys I know, and I got a lot of ideas, and I have formed a battle plan.

I have decided to try to coat the monolith while its still sitting on the ground with colored-black epoxy.

I then have talked to the guys and we got a plan for lifting the monolith into the trench I have now made ready for it.
I also talked to a guy who will let me use one of the small electric cement mixers.

I then was told about a longer ladder i can use when it is time to paint the finished Monolith once its standing .

I have many friends that are excited to help lift the monolith into place!

We shall see how these plans will need to change as things go, but for now it's nice to have an idea how play the "End Game"

Sometimes it takes a village to put a Monolith into place and paint/finish it properly...Think Stonehenge

 

[alan molstad]

Today I bolted two 4X4s to the "legs" as a means to hold them in place while the whole Monolith is standing on the legs as the cement is added .

 

[alan molstad]

I have no idea if this will help stabilize the legs while they hold the monolith in place as the cement is added, but it might.

 

[alan molstad]

I got washed off the project due to heavy rains the last few days , so things have slowed here for a while.
But Before the rains hit here I was able to get the trench dug to a depth I needed.
its about a little over 5 foot deep....and a little over a foot wide.

 

[alan molstad]

My brother was able to mark with a string the angle that the Monolith will be positioned.
The string represents the direction where the most wind comes from in my part of the State.
This will mean that the Monolith will have the narrow side faced into the wind.

 

[alan molstad]

Everything is wet, and so Im not about to jump down into the trench and finish digging the trench for a while.
My plan for tomorrow is to get some 12'foot length of plastic corner bead and some of this 4" inch wide black tape to go over all the corners and joints.

With luck I will be able to post some interesting photos every night as the work continues.

The problem is the weather , they are actually talking about a hint of snow over the next few days...