What Makes Star Wars - Star Wars? + Favorite SW moments

I've been wondering about this lately....

What, to you, makes Star Wars Star Wars?

Is it simply having lots of familiar elements that remind you of times gone by? or is it more to it than that?

To me, Star Wars is more than Jedi and Sith and Tie Fighters. but only because I've been following about a thousand years of EU History in the books for 30 years..
But, there is a certain formula to get the feel right. I just haven't quite figured out what it is.

To me, Star Wars is Timothy Zahn. When I re read the thrawn trilogy recently for the first time in 20 years, it all came rushing back. good writing makes you picture the events effortlessly in your mind and the mind fills in the rest of the detail asyou read. To me, that is Episode 7, 8 and 9. It didn't need a super weapon. it didn't need a sith master. it didn't need a darth clone. it was great, smart war fare. and something a little different than what we saw in the movies, but just as suspensful.


To me, Star Wars is the Clone Wars. a series that took some mediocre to slightly terrible movies, and made me appreciate the Prequel universe so much, I started to like the movies more over the years. some of my favorite episodes don't even involve the main characters. Bombad Jedi makes Jar Jar useful. Cloak of Darkness is an awesome Girl Power episode, without BEING A Girl power episode. it's just three women battling it out in an awesome fight without calling attention to it (pay attention kathleen kennedy, that is how it is done!). DownFall of a Droid gives R2 a chance to shine. Rookies focuses on a lone clone outpost in the middle of nowhere. the episode where padme takes Asoka behind enemy lines to learn about politics even makes THAT fun. Never mind being introduced to the mandalore and obi wans love interest.


To me, people like Zahn and Dave Filoni, when they are allowed to work un filtered, Get what make this universe tick. while so many others, just don't.
They can do a great imitation of it. they can make you feel all the right heart beats of it. but what they produce is just two hours of fluff that is left to dry off and be forgotten about, at least to me. where as now i am working on my fourth run through of clone wars since the series ended, and it's still just as fun as it was when it started.


What makes star wars for you?

To me, Star Wars is a get away. It is a link to the universe that expanded my imagination to farther reaches than ever imagined before. It is a take on others struggle between good and evil and how they battle that space between the rock and a hard place.

It took my life and gave me philosophies to live by. It is more thought-out than others think it is in the since that it takes an average persons life story and turns it into something extraordinary. Turns it into a work of art.

Luke was a simple farm boy who had a choice to become a Jedi or to walk away. It shows you that decisions make your future and is full of lessons and Morales that are good for a child to know.

To me, I guess, Star Wars is a life lesson in a bottle. Its happiness, hate, struggle, and realism all packed into one.

(NOTE: I SPENT ALOT OF MY DAYS ENJOYING THE STEVE ZAHN BOOKS AND MUCH OF THE EU BOOKS AS WELL AND MY OPINION GOES FOR THE BOOKS AS WELL.)

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It's the tropes of fantasy filtered through Kurosawa, Flash Gordon, the '50s greaser culture, and gee whiz post-war escapism pulp suddenly muddied up by southeast Asian realities of 40 years ago. It's safe once upon a time where the corners of the screen happen to be filled with aliens and blasters and gadgets instead of dragons and swords and carts driven to market- and the pilot's cynicism has slightly overtaken the knight's prevaricating (though we slip some of that in too).

The universe and its parts are known, and there's a clear division between right, wrong, and choices and attitudes towards each. Welcomed in a time where 'moral ambiguity' seemed to reign.

It isn't long-winded, techno-babble, or an author loving the sound of their own voice (the stories worth mentioning, that is). It's direct, sometimes brutally so (cringe-worthy) in content and in filmic simplicity, and offers little for contemplating after the fact. That's its charm, but the substance of this escapism (at least SW and ESB do) rewards you for the first few returns to it; sure after a few viewings, it's simply comfortable fables, but that you can sit in with an episode a couple of times- this puts it years beyond most film SF (at least in the day... most returned to watch for the jaw-drop aspect, not for any deep message they might have missed). You know when the dragon is going to jump out, that there are no real toothy bogeymen waiting for you, that in the darkest hour of course you know he heroes will come out on top. It's safe, so you can indulge in some wow without worrying about jumping in your seat.

Spaceships, droids, aliens, Darth Vader and the Force! That's my short list.

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Both rogue one and the force awakens have something, I'm not sure what, perhaps the aesthetic, that the PT doesn't. They have the everyday galaxy depth of life, they feel like there's more going on in the universe then just what is shown or talked about on screen. I remember seeing ROTS when I was 5, and I remember loving it, but it definitely wasn't as experiential as seeing RO or TFA. I am by no means a prequel hater, ROTS is in fact one of the best movies in the saga imo. They're even further enhanced by TCW. And it's part of the star wars universe, but it doesn't have the same feel. I grew up with 5 star wars films already out, so I unfortunately don't remember the thrill or confusion of hearing Darth Vader tell Luke that he's his father for the first time. I think that's what appeals to a lot of people in my generation. The sense of discovery within this familiar yet endless universe, a universe we've grown up with, a universe practically ingrained into our beings.

Dirty space ships.

Characters that talk like regular folks.

Towns that looked "lived-in."

Sci-fi with a fantasy element.

Sound design.

dascoyne said:

Dirty space ships.

Characters that talk like regular folks.

Towns that looked "lived-in."

Sci-fi with a fantasy element.

Sound design.

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Good call on the ound xesign. Have to add the music score by John Williams.



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Lightsabers. Pew pew pew noises. 70's hair cuts. Space wizards. Star fighters.

I saw ANH in 1977 when I was 12 years old. At that time I didn't know (or care) about things like character development of plot points or story telling or movie making or any of those things. I just knew it had a lot of really cool stuff in it that I liked. Sure, over the decades I've learned more about how and why it worked, but I'm going to go with my initial 12 year old gut reaction--

IT'S GOT COOL STUFF IN IT!!!

The Panini Sticker Album. The audio play with original dialogue recordings. The Kenner toys. Those were my startong points. There is not one single element, not just one strand. it is the whole fabric. Many dots make a painting.

Fairy tales/mythology (not sci-fi), and the "used space look".


SW is the ultimate example of "the more fantastic the premise, the more believable you have to make everything at the nuts & bolts level." You believe the Millennium Falcon can fly at speed of light because Han & Chewie are hastily wrenching on it like car mechanics when it's on the ground.




IMO the Force & Jedi elements have come to dominate SW too much in the later George Lucas era from 1984-2012. At the end of the day it boils down to a religion. The show wasn't originally so focused on that.

Notice how most of the standalone movie ideas that seem commercially viable are not Force/Jedi heavy. Rogue One, a Han/Lando/Chewie movie, a Boba Fett movie, etc.

Excitement, adventure, friendship, good and evil, a positive attitude despite fighting against huge odds.
It is very much the late 1970's / early 1980s in its tone and visual style.

Edit:
The heroes are human, not superhuman. They are not perfect. They have genuine personalities. There is banter, there are some silly lines, they goof up and get into misunderstandings but it is all well in the end. Just like with real people who care about each other.

Probably the used ,lived in look. John William's score also.

this pretty much sums it up for me

To me, Star Wars is Timothy Zahn.

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Have you met Zahn? Nice guy. I asked him once how tight a hand Lucasbooks kept on on the reins when writing his books. Surprisingly, they were quite liberal. He said at the time (5-7 years ago) the only thing cut from one of his manuscripts was a scene on the Falcon in which Chewie informs Luke that he was friends with Yoda and other Jedi. Luke, of course, is astonished at this and has many questions. The Lucasbooks folks thought it would have to continue in every new book.


Oh, and this put the hooks into me when seeing SW in it's original run when I was 17. Been with me ever since.

Probe Droid said:

Have you met Zahn? Nice guy. I asked him once how tight a hand Lucasbooks kept on on the reins when writing his books. Surprisingly, they were quite liberal. He said at the time (5-7 years ago) the only thing cut from one of his manuscripts was a scene on the Falcon in which Chewie informs Luke that he was friends with Yoda and other Jedi. Luke, of course, is astonished at this and has many questions. The Lucasbooks folks thought it would have to continue in every new book.

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yep, once breifly at a convention. i had him sign my original 1991 heir to the empire.


which is of course ironic, because that is exactly what happened at ROTS.


i wonder if someone kept that at the back of their minds or if the two ideas happened naturally.

When I was young, Star Wars was my escape from a pretty crummy childhood partly, if not, wholly on the fact that it was one of the few VHS tapes I had ready access to.

As I grew older and my love of film grew with me, I became articulate enough to realize why not only Star Wars works for me but a great many other films, too. And essentially, it boils down to two things: story and character (the latter with an extension of dialogue). It doesn't hurt that it has great music and effects, but even without them, I think there'd still be a big following for the films to this day. Perhaps on a level like Blade Runner and not, well, Star Wars, where Blade Runner was mostly visual spectacle and kind of lacked an emotional core. Again, it doesn't hurt that it has these things, but Star Wars is more than just these topical things.

In Star Wars' case, it's not just any story, however; I feel it is "truest" when it is representative of some narrative or theme with some tried and true psychological underpinning that kind of embodies the recognizable behaviors of the human condition seen across many societies, while still having influences that connect with the times they were made in. The OT was, beyond just the "Hero's Journey", made in the shadows of Vietnam and WWII; the PT had something similar but maybe on a more niche scale, following themes more aligned with the Greek tragedies and "English Romanticism" and heavily influenced by post-9/11 events. Even though the latter had a lot of missteps, I can recognize the thought and value put behind the work, even if it always didn't pan out well.

What bothers me the most now is that, I feel, almost more than previously (even if it was rather recent) that there's a serious lack of thought in the work. It's all about regurgitating the same old things again and again to satiate the general populous whom may not be able to concisely articulate these thoughts adequately, if they even recognize these things in the first place. It all feels a bit...masturbatory.

The trend I see is if they self-grandise enough, say how great it is enough times, then people will be duped into thinking it when, really, it's just pandering right down to the lowest common denominator. It's all just a large marketing gimmick to target kids through their parents. Hock enough safe and recognizable imagery to them in a very unsure, uncertain, and paranoid time, and you'll make bank on pure "nostalgia", something I've said many times before to be symptomatic of a larger societal issue at play here.

I love Star Wars but the greater fandom, the media, and "nostalgia" has really killed it for me in recent years. Nostalgia used to be a word that one used when one reminisced from time to time. Now, it's a down-right plague, a sickness one can get that blinds one of what something can be, what something should be, and where something can go. Rather than brave an uncertain future with courage, so many are stuck in with rose-tinted glasses of the past, drooling over what things "used to be" when they were young, naive, irresponsible children.

Nostalgia has taken on a new meaning for me and it's this: short for "I'm tired of my station in life and as I get older, the thought of an unsure and uncertain future scares me and rather than face the day with courage and optimism, whilst maintaining rationale, I'd rather flock to the safe and recognizable arms of feelings and times long past, polished by the passing years beyond what it was in reality, even if it is intellectually and creatively bankrupt of any new ideas or morals."


My favorite Star Wars moment has to be a recent occurrence when I watched A New Hope with a cousin, same age as me, and she hadn't seen it before. All the moments worked when they were supposed to work and I suppose that's the magic that makes the original films work so well. For those brief moments, I completely forgot all the crap that's come out since and continues to propagate now. So I completely sympathize to the almost religious fanaticism that these dopey kids films have accumulated. Which makes it all the more sad for me it see it in such a state now.

There are some very insightful ramblings here, love it.

To me 'nostalgia ' IS the key to SW. It was GL's nostalgia that brought SW together in the first place. His love of serial sci-fi, fast cars, samurais, westerns, girls, and other memorable characters and storytelling from film and books. It's a mishmash of his childhood, his teen years, and his adult years all thrown in a mixer. It was his thread through what he had learned.... taking his vision, of his 'nostalgia' you might say, and working with other talented and creative people resulted in SW. A beautifully imperfect touchstone that has resonated in modern culture for the last 40 years. The OT has touched the lives of BILLIONS now, and will continue to do so. But so will Qui-gon, Ani, Jar Jar, battledroids, Rey, Finn, Kylo, Jyn, Cassian...It may not be 'my' SW or 'your' SW. But, it is somebody's. It's all SW. Goods and Bads. And now it will continue possibly 'forever'... Nostalgia IS the key for all of us. Heck! This site exists because of our collective 'nostalgia'! Don't poop on another man's nostalgia! Lol. It's theirs, it's ours, it's everyone's...

Now what makes SW SW for me... It's the Cloud City scene between Luke and Vader. It's the culmination of all that preceded before it and what we imagined existed before it. It rests as one of the most tragically beautiful scenes ever. It wasn't just the cool lightsaber fight, or epic music, or gorgeous scenery and filmmaking. It was all of it and more. It was our young hero, standing up to this mysterious mechanical monster. David vs. Goliath, but Goliath turns out to be his father! Tragic, Amazing, Simple, Beautiful! ... It was the conversation that accompanied this spectacular lightsaber battle that made SW SW. It took the greatest tropes from history and made something beautifully new. Nostalgia at its finest! That's my SW.

Theres certainly plenty of things that make it Star Wars, but after watching ANH again last week, I realized just how funny that movie was. And not just stupid silly humor, its pretty sarcastic humor. I think thats one of the big things that the prequels were missing.
My fiance said with Ep 7 and R1, that something was missing. Well, after watching ANH, she knew a big part of it was that sarcasm humor. Plus just that whole magical feeling.

PoopaPapaPalps said:

What bothers me the most now is that, I feel, almost more than previously (even if it was rather recent) that there's a serious lack of thought in the work. It's all about regurgitating the same old things again and again to satiate the general populous whom may not be able to concisely articulate these thoughts adequately, if they even recognize these things in the first place. It all feels a bit...masturbatory.

The trend I see is if they self-grandise enough, say how great it is enough times, then people will be duped into thinking it when, really, it's just pandering right down to the lowest common denominator. It's all just a large marketing gimmick to target kids through their parents. Hock enough safe and recognizable imagery to them in a very unsure, uncertain, and paranoid time, and you'll make bank on pure "nostalgia", something I've said many times before to be symptomatic of a larger societal issue at play here.

I love Star Wars but the greater fandom, the media, and "nostalgia" has really killed it for me in recent years. Nostalgia used to be a word that one used when one reminisced from time to time. Now, it's a down-right plague, a sickness one can get that blinds one of what something can be, what something should be, and where something can go. Rather than brave an uncertain future with courage, so many are stuck in with rose-tinted glasses of the past, drooling over what things "used to be" when they were young, naive, irresponsible children.

Nostalgia has taken on a new meaning for me and it's this: short for "I'm tired of my station in life and as I get older, the thought of an unsure and uncertain future scares me and rather than face the day with courage and optimism, whilst maintaining rationale, I'd rather flock to the safe and recognizable arms of feelings and times long past, polished by the passing years beyond what it was in reality, even if it is intellectually and creatively bankrupt of any new ideas or morals."


My favorite Star Wars moment has to be a recent occurrence when I watched A New Hope with a cousin, same age as me, and she hadn't seen it before. All the moments worked when they were supposed to work and I suppose that's the magic that makes the original films work so well. For those brief moments, I completely forgot all the crap that's come out since and continues to propagate now. So I completely sympathize to the almost religious fanaticism that these dopey kids films have accumulated. Which makes it all the more sad for me it see it in such a state now.

Click to expand...

couldn't have said it better. Add to the fact that people are trying to take credit for someone elses vision, and throw their own sense of self into the franchise, whether it is good for the franchise or not, and you get even worse nostalgic crap.

there was one scene in R1 that was a total cameo moment where I just groaned out loud. it was a case of 'memba them'? yet, memba them doesn't work as well these days when you have the thing available instantly on demand and can relive it over and over again.

You also have the problem of people in hollywood unwilling to take gambles with something new....and people in hollywood handing older properties off to people who just don't care and see it as a big paycheck day and..

ugh.. one big mess when all people see are safe dollar signs.

Then you have people willing to accept and defend crap like it's a living breathing entity and that is a whole other problem ;o)...