Doctor Who opinions

Two things that bug me:
First, the Doctor is technically dead, and what we're seeing now is a copy. Unless, you claim the teleporter remakes the 'original' each time, in which case all it takes is the right energy input and you can copy yourself a Timelord as many times as you like.
Second, 2 million years punching something harder than diamond? In a castle filled with heavy/pointy/sharp objects (most obviously a spade) surely something is more effective than bare knuckles? Come to think of it, anything is more effective than bare knuckles. He has the damn sonic sunglasses, why can't he vibrate the thing until it shatters?

Looks an awful lot like River's screwdriver, which would tie into the christmas episode nicely.

That was pretty much the best episode I've ever seen

Angelus Lupus said:

Two things that bug me:
First, the Doctor is technically dead, and what we're seeing now is a copy. Unless, you claim the teleporter remakes the 'original' each time, in which case all it takes is the right energy input and you can copy yourself a Timelord as many times as you like.
Second, 2 million years punching something harder than diamond? In a castle filled with heavy/pointy/sharp objects (most obviously a spade) surely something is more effective than bare knuckles? Come to think of it, anything is more effective than bare knuckles. He has the damn sonic sunglasses, why can't he vibrate the thing until it shatters?

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Shhhh, you're not supposed to notice things like these. Just accept them and move on; you'll sleep better.

Actually, I thought it was a really stupid episode. It's just 2 billion years of Groundhog Day. And even if you can justify the Doctor doing the same thing over and over and over and over again for 2 billion years because he never has any more information at the beginning, the castle certainly knows better. The castle and the monster thing aren't going to keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. So you have a Doctor who clearly has to have information that he can't possibly have, doing the same things ad nauseum, hitting the same stupid rock for 2 billion years... sorry, that was just idiotic.

I thought it was as far as production levels went, very good,.....but the story......:rolleyes

J

And now I see Moffat explaining that it does indeed all take place inside the Confession Dial, with images 'plucked from The Doctor's subconscious'... so possibly none of it was real and no time has actually passed? I have no idea, and I'm more certain than ever that Moffat hasn't, either.
Just go do Sherlock with Gatis (where you can boost each other's ego's constantly and cast your The League of Gentlemen friends as often, and inappropriately, as you like) and let some new blood take over.

The thing is, it was the first time in forever that the story unfolded for us when it unfolded for the doctor. And that is why it was such a great episode.


Too often, there is no investment because the doctor figured things out already and we are made to feel dumb...when in reality it's just bad writing.

Like that damn sleep chamber episode. It was a big pile of bunk.

At least this one had a payoff worthy of the challenge.

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Yanno... the whole Groundhog Day feel of that episode had alot of holes... why didn't he just find a way to trap the monster... would have given him plenty of time to do whatever he needed to do. If the rooms reset back to their original condition, why wasn't the diamond wall repaired every time but the flower and the windows were? If he could leave a note for himself "BIRD" in the sand, and it doesn't get reset, why not just leave himself more information instead of taking 2 billion years to pound thru a diamond? There were alot of holes in this episode, but Capaldi did act more like the Doctor this time around instead of a confused child of Clara.

Capaldi was actually more the DOCTOR in this than any other episode recently. His intensity and wild hawkish stares made him very watchable , even if the rest of the story wasn't after the first twenty five minutes. Then it became ridiculous again. And nothing made any sense. I kept wondering how an uninterrupted power source could last two billion years and its memory not degrade. Or that a castle washed by sea waves wouldn't be reduced to a pile of rubble in less than thousand at most. And what powered that. At least in Groundhog Day the character learned from his experience which made it more interesting, but by wiping the Doctor back to the start can you honestly believe he would do the same thing again and again? I couldn't and from then on I just felt entirely bored by it. Moffat is just such a poor writer, he has no impulse control, nor brake on his completely over the top plot reveals. I for one shall be very glad to get to the end of this season. Some of the stories and ideas start so well and then just degenerate into a Dalek graveyard.

LrdSatyr8 said:

Yanno... the whole Groundhog Day feel of that episode had alot of holes... why didn't he just find a way to trap the monster... would have given him plenty of time to do whatever he needed to do. If the rooms reset back to their original condition, why wasn't the diamond wall repaired every time but the flower and the windows were? If he could leave a note for himself "BIRD" in the sand, and it doesn't get reset, why not just leave himself more information instead of taking 2 billion years to pound thru a diamond? There were alot of holes in this episode, but Capaldi did act more like the Doctor this time around instead of a confused child of Clara.

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I would assume that the diamond didn't reset because it was the door to the outside. Perhaps this wasn't designed to trapped him forever but rather to challenge him? Every locked door has a key? That sort of thing.

i dont know what channel it is on

astroboy said:

I would assume that the diamond didn't reset because it was the door to the outside. Perhaps this wasn't designed to trapped him forever but rather to challenge him? Every locked door has a key? That sort of thing.

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Yeah but as "clever" as the Doctor is suppose to be you would think that repeating the same thing for 2 BILLION years, he would have come up with at least ONE original thought during that time "Hold onto the shovel, it'll come in handy later"... "Instead of running from the creature, find a way to stop it" that sort of thing. Heck, a bunch of monkeys typing on typerwriters would have banged out the complete works of Shakespear in 2 billion years! You can't tell me in that time, he didn't have any variation on any thought process whatsoever? That would be against every single chaos theory known and would be impossible to think that in the 2 BILLION years he was there that he would repeat the exact same course of of action, every single step, movement and thought process exactly the same over that period of time. Totally unbelievable! Entertaining, but unbelievable!

I'm sorry I absolutely hated this episode. It started off with a good premise but about 30 minutes in I was basically like WTF? 1. You don't know how long it even took him to figure out how to go from point A (the beginning of the episode) to B when he found the way out. This should have given him a bunch of time to figure how to deal with the monster. 2. It took 52 minutes for the monster to come after the Doctor. Get some tools and hammer on the wall. Run to the other end of the castle get a sandwich and then get back to work. ( I won't even mention that he had the sonic sunglasses in his pocket). 3. WTF didn't he regenerate instead of turning to dust? I will also do us a favor and not mention Clara was in the episode. I mean it's like moffet comes up with some good premises for a show. Tell a good writer your idea and then let them flesh it out. I love Capaldi but damn the Titanic sank faster then this season is. Oh **** I hope Moffat doesn't read this board I just might have given him an idea that he will screw up, just like the Orient Express. Holy ****! Where's the Tylenol?

Absolutely intriguing premise and then...the Doctor dies. The original Doctor we have followed for years is dead, replaced a billion times over by copies of himself while trapped inside a confession doo-hicky that was designed for what purpose? A test? Therapy? A longing for death? Bad writing?

The last five years better turn out to be a bad dream because they have painted themselves into a corner. I can't take it seriously anymore because the rules have been thrown out and they're just making S*** up seemingly without a care for the past. No one is going to take this seriously unless they have some brilliant scheme to tie up the thousand or so loose threads that have been left dangling.

Mola Rob said:

Absolutely intriguing premise and then...the Doctor dies. The original Doctor we have followed for years is dead, replaced a billion times over by copies of himself while trapped inside a confession doo-hicky that was designed for what purpose? A test? Therapy? A longing for death? Bad writing?

The last five years better turn out to be a bad dream because they have painted themselves into a corner. I can't take it seriously anymore because the rules have been thrown out and they're just making S*** up seemingly without a care for the past. No one is going to take this seriously unless they have some brilliant scheme to tie up the thousand or so loose threads that have been left dangling.

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Is it any more absurd than bang a drum? Or the whole Pandorica thing?

As much as I loved this episode, I still want moffats's head on a stake. He is still responsible for killing the moon

I'm not trying to promote or hijack but there needs to be a long debate solely about this episode. I've watched it again with full attention and it's better than I remember it. This is the episode that proves Moffat and the show still haven't run out of goodness. It's just rarely used. In my opinion. I'm seeing all these nitpicks and issues being taken in this thread but to me those are what makes the episode so good and beautiful. The episode was supposed to showcase the Doctor having given up while still being desperate. The Doctor was still smart but not the God he is in every other episode and even when he does gather by jumping to conclusions, in this episode they are easier to draw on and do not exaggerate the Doctor's arrogance. The environment he was in is beyond what governs our world due to his own decisions in the world (subtle Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey stuff without time travel). Him forgetting had a beautiful effect and was a beautiful statement. Things would change but only subtly. The first time round there would be no skulls, identical stars and no dry costume (implying the doctor would be in the castle naked at one point (almost as stupid as Doors being sentient (almost as stupid as talking to animals and babies))). The only excuse to the Azbantium would be that the trap had a purpose (which it does) I'm uncertain about the hybrid being important due to the Doctor mentioning it with no incentive. I think a clue is how the confession dial would be of, at least in part, the Doctor's making. By the time of the Azbantium scene the Doctor realises his loop so the only real purpose for it to be there is his own motivation. The killing of himself and the Azbantium is symbolic for him moving on and returning to homeostasis. Much like elements of the castle. The teleport scenes don't matter; 1: because every time you teleport one could argue you are killing yourself (every time you go through the TARDIS doors?) and 2: it means the writers are willing to more subtly explore interesting themes and stop treating their characters so sacredly and god like. The Doctor is a person. We cannot hate this episode because the story's conclusion's sense requires the main character not to have taken precautions for something he could not have foreseen... in an ever-changing maze.

I've really enjoyed this season (and last season, too) for the most part. For the most part, I don't have the hate/dislike/disdain for Clara or for Moffat that a lot of people have... sure, there's been an episode or a turn or two that I've been less than thrilled with - but, for the most part I've really enjoyed my re-discovery of Doctor Who. (I watched Saturday and I was rushed as I needed to get downtown to see that awesome Mythbusters show - so a lot of the last 15 minutes or so was "come on! move along already....").

Maybe my expectations were too high, maybe it took my too long to put the pieces together, maybe I needed repeat viewings... but, my initial thoughts behind Heaven Scent were less than positive (but, not really negative - just kinda "that's it?"). I mean, it was quality... but, it almost seemed like it was stalling, like filler.

Once I got home, I hit the RPF and some other places (Reddit) and saw that this episode was met with a huge positive response. Slowly, some of the ideas behind the episode crept into place. The Doctor's telling truths were the confessions in the Confession Dial... I don't think they played up the Confession Dial nearly enough this season if a whole episode was to be dedicated to it like this. I just hope it that it really means something next episode.

As an aside - I do understand some being bothered by the Doctor being a copy (of a copy of a copy...). But, I don't see it that way - while it could've been utilized/explained a lot better (and avoided the idea that he's still in the hard drive - if I am remembering that bit correctly) - the Doctor basically teleported himself back to himself. Arguably, that's a copy - and while I'm not sure how often teleportation has been used in Doctor Who, it would seem anytime it's been used that person is now a copy, too.

I am anxiously looking forward to Saturday.

http://www.rubbertoereplicas.com/#!store-gifts-presents-replicas/c21kz

Mine is on the way - I'll post some pics when it gets here!

BTW was trying to link to the confession dial....