SSgt Burton
Sr Member
I mean really? Best Trek film ever? Come on!---
So the film opens with a new “Captain”, who is commanding the Enterprise on a training mission full of cadets. The mission goes awry and everyone ends up “dead.”
Except they’re not dead, it was all a simulation; a “no win” situation designed to test the reaction of a commander “facing death.”
Huh?
How are they supposed to “face death” if they know it is all a simulation? They aren’t travelling through space. They aren’t parked in spacedock. They aren’t even on the Enterprise! They are in a simulator at the Academy on Earth! They “know” it isn’t real to begin with, so what’s the point of all the play acting?
So during the simulation, Saavik (a Vulcan) let’s out an expletive when she finds out the stranded ship is in the middle of the Neutral Zone. Umm... wouldn’t saying “damn” be considered illogical and emotional by a Vulcan? She also has a dramatic “pause” after Spock “dies.” Why would she be affected by this? Isn’t she a Vulcan in complete control of her emotions? Not to mention she knows it’s all fake anyway.
So the Neutral Zone is now a giant sphere in space controlled by the Klingons. Wait, what?
I thought the Neutral Zone was a lightyears long “line in the sand” separating the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire? Saavik refers to the Gamma Hydra system during her log; the same system in The Deadly Years, in which Commodore Stocker took the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone and was attacked by... the Romulans!
Guess they figured the “real” fans wouldn’t notice the change, or referring to the Gamma Hydra system was supposed to be a shout out to the fans, without the filmmakers actually doing their homework.
Why would it be a sphere anyway, unless the Klingon homeworld was at the center, but the sphere didn’t look that big.
Saavik asks for advice, and Kirk says to pray as the Klingons don’t take prisoners... Except they took Kirk and Spock prisoner in Errand of Mercy. Kruge killed his gunner because he wanted prisoners. Not to mention Rura Penthe.
Why is Saavik already an ensign if she hasn’t graduated yet?
(EDIT-Oops! Even "I" after having seen this film hundreds, if not over a thousand times got this wrong; she was a lieutenant, not an ensign. Makes the nitpick worse doesn't it? :lol )
So Reliant is looking for a lifeless planet for the Genesis experiment and returns to the Ceti Alpha system (which, you know.. has already been charted). Except they managed to overlook the fact that an ENTIRE FLIPPING PLANET IS MISSING! I mean they couldn’t count the number of dots?
So this means these “explorers” are either complete idiots or...
Ceti Alpha Six exploded, with a destructive power strong enough to vaporize any and all remaining debris (otherwise why wouldn’t there be an asteroid field where Ceti Alpha Six’s orbit used to be), and caused Ceti Alpha Five not only to be laid to waste, but caused that planet to perfectly assume the previous orbit of destroyed Ceti Alpha Six.
I mean why else would they set course for Ceti Alpha Six, and end up parked around Ceti Alpha Five?
Who wrote this? A ten year old? And here I was thinking Star Trek had a believable amount of “science” in it. The entire plot of the film hangs on them mistaking one planet for another!
Why didn’t Spock understand that Ceti Alpha Six was unstable enough to explode in a mere six months in Space Seed?
What’s wrong with the Reliant’s sensors? The USS Grissom was able to detect ONE photon tube and pin point its exact location on Genesis. However the Reliant only has a “minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner”, when in fact it is missing approximately FIFTY adult human beings! Despite the inhospitable environment, I doubt 50 people should only produce a minor reading (which is mistaken for “particles of
pre-animate matter”).
Chekov recognizes the Botany Bay belt buckle and realizes where they actually are. Why didn’t he just call for an emergency beam out? (I won’t go into the whole “why does Chekov know who Khan is, why does Khan remember Chekov’s face thing. No Sir I won’t.)
Khan’s men were more or less the same age as him in Space Seed, however everyone seems much younger than Khan now. Shouldn’t they all at least look the same age as Khan? At least a “little” older than they do in the film?
So in The Motion Picture, Kirk was pretty irritated that he had to take a shuttle over to the Enterprise when the transporters were not working. Yet this time they take him over in a shuttle again. Are the transporters still not working? Why is Kirk okay with it now?
The shuttle is told to approach and dock with the port side torpedo bay. So why does it dock with the engineering section?
Well the uniforms certainly look much more militaristic now don’t they? But hold on, I thought Starfleet “wasn’t” the military. Oh wait, David Marcus says that scientists were always “pawns of the military” when referring to the approaching Reliant. So I guess they “are” the military now... Even though I thought they were primarily explorers and scientists.
When Saavik is ordered to take the Enterprise out of spacedock, Kirk looks like a nervous Dad giving his daughter her first driving lesson. Why is he worried? Sulu is actually working the controls and he’s not about to ding the ship into anything.
Once again the Enterprise is the only ship within range to check out the problem on Regula 1. They say they are the “only ship in the quadrant.” I thought there were only four quadrants in the entire Milky Way Galaxy? I guess all the ships were exploring... Oops! Sorry I meant “patrolling” (they’re the military remember) in Beta Quadrant that day.
When Reliant approaches the Enterprise, Khan quotes a Klingon proverb. When did he learn this? The last time he had access to a library was aboard the Enterprise. Even if the Enterprise databanks contained this proverb, I think Khan spent his precious time studying the
engineering/ship schematics and not alien cultures.
After Khan’s initial attack, the “main energizers” are knocked out. I assume this includes the warp drive otherwise why wouldn’t they flee? So if the warp drive is out (according to the Enterprise’s redesign in The Motion Picture) the phasers won’t work either as they channel power through the warp engines. Yet Kirk fires back at Khan with phasers.
Why does Scotty bring a severely burned cadet Preston to the bridge instead of directly to sickbay? And why does Saavik the Vulcan have an emotional reaction to cadet Preston’s condition?
In the underground facility on Regula, Carol Marcus muses that it took the Starfleet Corps of Engineers ten months to tunnel out the storage area. Ten months? Seriously? What happened to phasers that can vaporize rock or transporters that can remove it instantly? Scotty beamed up 400 tons of water and whales in Star Trek IV. I guess the Starfleet Corps of Engineers took a page out of Scotty’s book and grossly exaggerated their time to completion.
When the Enterprise enters the Mutara Nebula, everyone lurches forward except Kirk.
During the battle, Spock tells Kirk that Khan thinks “two dimensionally.”
However when the two ships are on a collision course moments earlier, Kirk has the Enterprise do a hard right turn, exposing the Enterprise to a broadside shot.
Even after Kirk “gets it” and has the Enterprise drop down 10 000 meters (because Khan is just circling around on the same plane), after Khan passes overhead, Kirk has the Enterprise pop back up behind the Reliant.
Why not just tilt the Enterprise’s nose up 90 degrees and shoot the Reliant from underneath it as it passed over?
Nobody considers beaming the Genesis device off the Reliant out into deep space. Spock need not have had to die! (REFUTED)
(EDIT Sept 9 '13): Spock has to enter the radiation filled chamber to save the ship... why are there no effective anti-radiation suits on the Enterprise?
During Spock’s eulogy, Kirk says that Spock’s soul was the “most human.” However in Star Trek VI, Kirk tells Spock that “everyone’s human” and Spock finds this remark insulting.
And Saavik the Vulcan cries her eyes out.
This is Trek’s best? Pffft!
UPDATE Nov 23 2013:
Okay to prevent any further confusion from future readers you have to appreciate why I started this thread:
1- Star Trek II is not only my favourite Star Trek film, it is my favourite film of all. I've probably watched it over 1000 times since first seeing it as a twelve year old in 1982.
2- At the time this thread was created, there was a thread titled "Why do so many people think Star Trek Into Darkness was bad?." That thread was created by someone who watched ST:ID, liked it, and couldn't understand why there were so many people complaining about how bad it was.
3- The complaints generally circled around nitpicks about technology being incorrect (for the ST universe), changed premises from the first film, characters acting out of character, on and on and on and on and on (you get the idea)...
However these nitpicks were nothing worse than what "every" Star Trek film suffers from (even Trek at its finest hour with ST:II). Magical technology that is created for one particular Star Trek film and never heard of again (such as ST:IV's "Transparant Aluminum"). Or tech behaving in ways it shouldn't (ST:ID's communicators that can transmit messages across several lightyears in realtime like a regular phone).
So I created "this" thread pointing out all the major nitpicks I could find in my favourite film. I tore it to pieces deliberately to prove a point that "every" Trek film has its share of nitpicks. However it would seem that when it comes to nitpicks, "great" Trek films get a free pass, while "JJTrek" gets crucified.
That was the point behind this thread.
Kevin
So the film opens with a new “Captain”, who is commanding the Enterprise on a training mission full of cadets. The mission goes awry and everyone ends up “dead.”
Except they’re not dead, it was all a simulation; a “no win” situation designed to test the reaction of a commander “facing death.”
Huh?
How are they supposed to “face death” if they know it is all a simulation? They aren’t travelling through space. They aren’t parked in spacedock. They aren’t even on the Enterprise! They are in a simulator at the Academy on Earth! They “know” it isn’t real to begin with, so what’s the point of all the play acting?
So during the simulation, Saavik (a Vulcan) let’s out an expletive when she finds out the stranded ship is in the middle of the Neutral Zone. Umm... wouldn’t saying “damn” be considered illogical and emotional by a Vulcan? She also has a dramatic “pause” after Spock “dies.” Why would she be affected by this? Isn’t she a Vulcan in complete control of her emotions? Not to mention she knows it’s all fake anyway.
So the Neutral Zone is now a giant sphere in space controlled by the Klingons. Wait, what?
I thought the Neutral Zone was a lightyears long “line in the sand” separating the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire? Saavik refers to the Gamma Hydra system during her log; the same system in The Deadly Years, in which Commodore Stocker took the Enterprise into the Neutral Zone and was attacked by... the Romulans!
Guess they figured the “real” fans wouldn’t notice the change, or referring to the Gamma Hydra system was supposed to be a shout out to the fans, without the filmmakers actually doing their homework.
Why would it be a sphere anyway, unless the Klingon homeworld was at the center, but the sphere didn’t look that big.
Saavik asks for advice, and Kirk says to pray as the Klingons don’t take prisoners... Except they took Kirk and Spock prisoner in Errand of Mercy. Kruge killed his gunner because he wanted prisoners. Not to mention Rura Penthe.
Why is Saavik already an ensign if she hasn’t graduated yet?
(EDIT-Oops! Even "I" after having seen this film hundreds, if not over a thousand times got this wrong; she was a lieutenant, not an ensign. Makes the nitpick worse doesn't it? :lol )
So Reliant is looking for a lifeless planet for the Genesis experiment and returns to the Ceti Alpha system (which, you know.. has already been charted). Except they managed to overlook the fact that an ENTIRE FLIPPING PLANET IS MISSING! I mean they couldn’t count the number of dots?
So this means these “explorers” are either complete idiots or...
Ceti Alpha Six exploded, with a destructive power strong enough to vaporize any and all remaining debris (otherwise why wouldn’t there be an asteroid field where Ceti Alpha Six’s orbit used to be), and caused Ceti Alpha Five not only to be laid to waste, but caused that planet to perfectly assume the previous orbit of destroyed Ceti Alpha Six.
I mean why else would they set course for Ceti Alpha Six, and end up parked around Ceti Alpha Five?
Who wrote this? A ten year old? And here I was thinking Star Trek had a believable amount of “science” in it. The entire plot of the film hangs on them mistaking one planet for another!
Why didn’t Spock understand that Ceti Alpha Six was unstable enough to explode in a mere six months in Space Seed?
What’s wrong with the Reliant’s sensors? The USS Grissom was able to detect ONE photon tube and pin point its exact location on Genesis. However the Reliant only has a “minor energy flux reading on one dynoscanner”, when in fact it is missing approximately FIFTY adult human beings! Despite the inhospitable environment, I doubt 50 people should only produce a minor reading (which is mistaken for “particles of
pre-animate matter”).
Chekov recognizes the Botany Bay belt buckle and realizes where they actually are. Why didn’t he just call for an emergency beam out? (I won’t go into the whole “why does Chekov know who Khan is, why does Khan remember Chekov’s face thing. No Sir I won’t.)
Khan’s men were more or less the same age as him in Space Seed, however everyone seems much younger than Khan now. Shouldn’t they all at least look the same age as Khan? At least a “little” older than they do in the film?
So in The Motion Picture, Kirk was pretty irritated that he had to take a shuttle over to the Enterprise when the transporters were not working. Yet this time they take him over in a shuttle again. Are the transporters still not working? Why is Kirk okay with it now?
The shuttle is told to approach and dock with the port side torpedo bay. So why does it dock with the engineering section?
Well the uniforms certainly look much more militaristic now don’t they? But hold on, I thought Starfleet “wasn’t” the military. Oh wait, David Marcus says that scientists were always “pawns of the military” when referring to the approaching Reliant. So I guess they “are” the military now... Even though I thought they were primarily explorers and scientists.
When Saavik is ordered to take the Enterprise out of spacedock, Kirk looks like a nervous Dad giving his daughter her first driving lesson. Why is he worried? Sulu is actually working the controls and he’s not about to ding the ship into anything.
Once again the Enterprise is the only ship within range to check out the problem on Regula 1. They say they are the “only ship in the quadrant.” I thought there were only four quadrants in the entire Milky Way Galaxy? I guess all the ships were exploring... Oops! Sorry I meant “patrolling” (they’re the military remember) in Beta Quadrant that day.
When Reliant approaches the Enterprise, Khan quotes a Klingon proverb. When did he learn this? The last time he had access to a library was aboard the Enterprise. Even if the Enterprise databanks contained this proverb, I think Khan spent his precious time studying the
engineering/ship schematics and not alien cultures.
After Khan’s initial attack, the “main energizers” are knocked out. I assume this includes the warp drive otherwise why wouldn’t they flee? So if the warp drive is out (according to the Enterprise’s redesign in The Motion Picture) the phasers won’t work either as they channel power through the warp engines. Yet Kirk fires back at Khan with phasers.
Why does Scotty bring a severely burned cadet Preston to the bridge instead of directly to sickbay? And why does Saavik the Vulcan have an emotional reaction to cadet Preston’s condition?
In the underground facility on Regula, Carol Marcus muses that it took the Starfleet Corps of Engineers ten months to tunnel out the storage area. Ten months? Seriously? What happened to phasers that can vaporize rock or transporters that can remove it instantly? Scotty beamed up 400 tons of water and whales in Star Trek IV. I guess the Starfleet Corps of Engineers took a page out of Scotty’s book and grossly exaggerated their time to completion.
When the Enterprise enters the Mutara Nebula, everyone lurches forward except Kirk.
During the battle, Spock tells Kirk that Khan thinks “two dimensionally.”
However when the two ships are on a collision course moments earlier, Kirk has the Enterprise do a hard right turn, exposing the Enterprise to a broadside shot.
Even after Kirk “gets it” and has the Enterprise drop down 10 000 meters (because Khan is just circling around on the same plane), after Khan passes overhead, Kirk has the Enterprise pop back up behind the Reliant.
Why not just tilt the Enterprise’s nose up 90 degrees and shoot the Reliant from underneath it as it passed over?
Nobody considers beaming the Genesis device off the Reliant out into deep space. Spock need not have had to die! (REFUTED)
(EDIT Sept 9 '13): Spock has to enter the radiation filled chamber to save the ship... why are there no effective anti-radiation suits on the Enterprise?
During Spock’s eulogy, Kirk says that Spock’s soul was the “most human.” However in Star Trek VI, Kirk tells Spock that “everyone’s human” and Spock finds this remark insulting.
And Saavik the Vulcan cries her eyes out.
This is Trek’s best? Pffft!
UPDATE Nov 23 2013:
Okay to prevent any further confusion from future readers you have to appreciate why I started this thread:
1- Star Trek II is not only my favourite Star Trek film, it is my favourite film of all. I've probably watched it over 1000 times since first seeing it as a twelve year old in 1982.
2- At the time this thread was created, there was a thread titled "Why do so many people think Star Trek Into Darkness was bad?." That thread was created by someone who watched ST:ID, liked it, and couldn't understand why there were so many people complaining about how bad it was.
3- The complaints generally circled around nitpicks about technology being incorrect (for the ST universe), changed premises from the first film, characters acting out of character, on and on and on and on and on (you get the idea)...
However these nitpicks were nothing worse than what "every" Star Trek film suffers from (even Trek at its finest hour with ST:II). Magical technology that is created for one particular Star Trek film and never heard of again (such as ST:IV's "Transparant Aluminum"). Or tech behaving in ways it shouldn't (ST:ID's communicators that can transmit messages across several lightyears in realtime like a regular phone).
So I created "this" thread pointing out all the major nitpicks I could find in my favourite film. I tore it to pieces deliberately to prove a point that "every" Trek film has its share of nitpicks. However it would seem that when it comes to nitpicks, "great" Trek films get a free pass, while "JJTrek" gets crucified.
That was the point behind this thread.
Kevin
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