Logan's Run Red Palm Life Clock!
- Thread starter Petseal
- Start date
Reading that fan page, all he has is strong belief that those were cast off a screen-used prop. But it lieu of better information, there's enough in the various images that someone could make a more accurate 3d model... (I would, but I'm way over-extended already).
19narvik40
Sr Member
bmunger, I am going to try to revamp one of the crystals bought at a Con some time ago. I will be casting it in clear resin and should be able to colour them as well. Working on the backing. I'll post my progress.
19narvik40
Sr Member
Jintosh,
When it was purchased back in the 80's the vender swore up and down that it cast from one of the originals used in the movie. It has rather soft features for that and I don't doubt it was a recast to begin with. No, my hope is to sharpen the features and clean up a few flaws. I want to find a better reflective surface than the original silver tape.
Does that make it a recast? I don't think it does. Not if I were to rework the crystal into a better example. If I were to drop it straight into a mold as is and do nothing else, yes indeedy. This also brings in the murky question of who's work was it in the first place. If it is as advertised and was a copy of an original screen prop, who "owns" the product. It wouldn't be as though someone sat down and hand crafted a replica of the original using only drawings and photos to guide them. I have done so with three pieces for my Babylon 5 uniform and have detailed that here on this forum.
I understand and agree that recasting is a huge and somewhat divisive issue here and on other forums. In the majority of cases it is clear cut and the originating artist can point out their work. This isn't one of those cases. These copies have been around since the eighties and have been sold by countless sources through the years. All the examples I have seen have the same soft features, some cast better than others and all the same size. Like I said before, what I want to do is take a piece that is borderline crappy and rework it onto something much better. If that makes me a recaster in your opinion, we shall have to agree to disagree.
When it was purchased back in the 80's the vender swore up and down that it cast from one of the originals used in the movie. It has rather soft features for that and I don't doubt it was a recast to begin with. No, my hope is to sharpen the features and clean up a few flaws. I want to find a better reflective surface than the original silver tape.
Does that make it a recast? I don't think it does. Not if I were to rework the crystal into a better example. If I were to drop it straight into a mold as is and do nothing else, yes indeedy. This also brings in the murky question of who's work was it in the first place. If it is as advertised and was a copy of an original screen prop, who "owns" the product. It wouldn't be as though someone sat down and hand crafted a replica of the original using only drawings and photos to guide them. I have done so with three pieces for my Babylon 5 uniform and have detailed that here on this forum.
I understand and agree that recasting is a huge and somewhat divisive issue here and on other forums. In the majority of cases it is clear cut and the originating artist can point out their work. This isn't one of those cases. These copies have been around since the eighties and have been sold by countless sources through the years. All the examples I have seen have the same soft features, some cast better than others and all the same size. Like I said before, what I want to do is take a piece that is borderline crappy and rework it onto something much better. If that makes me a recaster in your opinion, we shall have to agree to disagree.
I see I'm coming off a bit strong.
Some people don't even like to make copies of a commercial products that are not "owned" by an individual artist. But that's not me.
Sure, it bugs me just a bit, but if it is a copy of a copy of an original, then you should be okay. Saying you're going to modify it after you cast it would not be a valid excuse if this were the work of someone here. This has been discussed before with paper props. Some people thought that making changes would then allow you to sell the "free" paper props. But the consensus of the community was that you can't use the original paper design at all, and sell it even if you made changes.
Again, if this is a copy of a copy of an original prop, you should be okay.
Some people don't even like to make copies of a commercial products that are not "owned" by an individual artist. But that's not me.
Sure, it bugs me just a bit, but if it is a copy of a copy of an original, then you should be okay. Saying you're going to modify it after you cast it would not be a valid excuse if this were the work of someone here. This has been discussed before with paper props. Some people thought that making changes would then allow you to sell the "free" paper props. But the consensus of the community was that you can't use the original paper design at all, and sell it even if you made changes.
Again, if this is a copy of a copy of an original prop, you should be okay.
God the movie is so old, it's followed by few fans these days, the guy who cast off the original is possibly not even living anymore.
Not to mention it's such a tiny little thing with very soft details.
I wonder if there are small flat circular batteries available? it might be possible to light up one of these suckers given the tiny LEDs available.
Not to mention it's such a tiny little thing with very soft details.
I wonder if there are small flat circular batteries available? it might be possible to light up one of these suckers given the tiny LEDs available.
19narvik40
Sr Member
CessnaDriver,
I was thinking about the CR or coin series of batteries, they are the flattest I know of. The issue is how to mount the battery and LEDs. Add an on/off switch plus the ability to change from solid to flashing and you risk making the base too deep, too thick a base and the crystal won't sit right in your palm. I'd love to figure out how to use the glow panel you see on some nightlights but I doubt the batteries could power them. I think one could run wires from your wrist and cover them with a silicone appliance. It wouldn't be comfortable and depending on the battery pack needed, too obvious, especially if you are not wearing a full sleeved Sandman outfit.
This is probably why the silver tape was attached so you could at least get some reflected light.
I was thinking about the CR or coin series of batteries, they are the flattest I know of. The issue is how to mount the battery and LEDs. Add an on/off switch plus the ability to change from solid to flashing and you risk making the base too deep, too thick a base and the crystal won't sit right in your palm. I'd love to figure out how to use the glow panel you see on some nightlights but I doubt the batteries could power them. I think one could run wires from your wrist and cover them with a silicone appliance. It wouldn't be comfortable and depending on the battery pack needed, too obvious, especially if you are not wearing a full sleeved Sandman outfit.
This is probably why the silver tape was attached so you could at least get some reflected light.
If fthey made something like this round, and use very small surface mount LEDs that fit into some hollows in the crystal.
I just don't know if the battery has enough current or would last very long.
http://lithiumbatter.com/solid-state-thin-film-rechargeable-lithium-batteries/
I just don't know if the battery has enough current or would last very long.
http://lithiumbatter.com/solid-state-thin-film-rechargeable-lithium-batteries/
19narvik40
Sr Member
I posted this on another thread http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?p=3726493#post3726493 questioning whether I was just a recaster or not, I thought I'd share it here.
Okay Jintosh,
For your elucidation, the item was purchased at a vendor's table at a science-fiction convention (ConVersion) in Calgary, Alberta, Canada in the mid to late eighties. The name of the vendor and his company (if he ever had one) have been lost in the mists of time. Was the vendor an authorized reseller of this item, really doubt it.
I rediscovered the piece while looking for parts for a hanger bay diorama for the new Battlestar Galactica. I have five figures sculpted by Chris Elizardo for Mad Dog Resins. Charlie at Mad Dog now longer wished to be bothered with the figures so I offered to purchase both the masters and the molds for these figures. The molds themselves are all damaged as the sculpting material has shrunk and split along the wire frame underneath. The molds are very near the end of their casting life. I cast several of the remaining figures )one mold never made it to me) and I am in the process of modifying them to a better standard. I am replacing hands and heads and reshaping the bodies as well,
The only reason I bothered to tell you all this is to try to show that I do not take copyright issues lightly.
I have followed your work with the Gravity Falls items you have done and in some cases sell. Your announced intention to digitally copy pages from the show to fill a prop book don't sound as though you plan to follow your own credo of, and I quote, "You can't go wrong using your own designs."
Is it a coincidence that you have sent "your" design for the Life Clock to Shapeways and are now questioning me about my intentions? As you have stated in your posts, you do sell your works online. Could you please give us chapter and verse your references and other material from which you derived "your" design?
Okay Jintosh,
For your elucidation, the item was purchased at a vendor's table at a science-fiction convention (ConVersion) in Calgary, Alberta, Canada in the mid to late eighties. The name of the vendor and his company (if he ever had one) have been lost in the mists of time. Was the vendor an authorized reseller of this item, really doubt it.
I rediscovered the piece while looking for parts for a hanger bay diorama for the new Battlestar Galactica. I have five figures sculpted by Chris Elizardo for Mad Dog Resins. Charlie at Mad Dog now longer wished to be bothered with the figures so I offered to purchase both the masters and the molds for these figures. The molds themselves are all damaged as the sculpting material has shrunk and split along the wire frame underneath. The molds are very near the end of their casting life. I cast several of the remaining figures )one mold never made it to me) and I am in the process of modifying them to a better standard. I am replacing hands and heads and reshaping the bodies as well,
The only reason I bothered to tell you all this is to try to show that I do not take copyright issues lightly.
I have followed your work with the Gravity Falls items you have done and in some cases sell. Your announced intention to digitally copy pages from the show to fill a prop book don't sound as though you plan to follow your own credo of, and I quote, "You can't go wrong using your own designs."
Is it a coincidence that you have sent "your" design for the Life Clock to Shapeways and are now questioning me about my intentions? As you have stated in your posts, you do sell your works online. Could you please give us chapter and verse your references and other material from which you derived "your" design?
19narvik40
Sr Member
It would seem that Jintosh is insisting that my efforts would be recasting someone else's work even with alterations. | guess we all will just have to wait for his version he will be selling on Shapeways as I doubt anything I do up to and including creating a crystal from scratch will appease him.
I learned that asking a theoretical question can get some lengthy and complex answers. And that people feel very strongly about this issue.
You do not need anyone's approval to create a design from scratch.
As I did not sell you the crystal, I can not challenge you on recasting even if you sold copies. But I still wanted to know if it WAS recasting. Most said yes, and some said no, because of the age. That is the answer I was looking for.
I posted my original question in a different thread so this one wouldn't be contaminated. Clearly, that didn't work out so good.
You do not need anyone's approval to create a design from scratch.
As I did not sell you the crystal, I can not challenge you on recasting even if you sold copies. But I still wanted to know if it WAS recasting. Most said yes, and some said no, because of the age. That is the answer I was looking for.
I posted my original question in a different thread so this one wouldn't be contaminated. Clearly, that didn't work out so good.
19narvik40
Sr Member
CessnaDriver,,
Are those flat batteries commercially available? I'm not so much concerned about the thickness of the battery as I am about the size of the light source. There are some tiny wheat bulbs available but one won't be enough to light the crystal. The more bulbs you use the more power you need.
I'm not well versed in the electronics aspect having blown up more than a few lights. My efforts to light kits has been shall we say less than successful. Some of the over 4,000 folks who have viewed this must have some ideas to share.
Are those flat batteries commercially available? I'm not so much concerned about the thickness of the battery as I am about the size of the light source. There are some tiny wheat bulbs available but one won't be enough to light the crystal. The more bulbs you use the more power you need.
I'm not well versed in the electronics aspect having blown up more than a few lights. My efforts to light kits has been shall we say less than successful. Some of the over 4,000 folks who have viewed this must have some ideas to share.
