tubachris85x
Master Member
No more than you're going to convince me that my "arguments" are "meretricious" based on your opinion.
FYi:
Star Wars The Force Awakens Soundtrack
- Thread starter Goonie
- Start date
No more than you're going to convince me that my "arguments" are "meretricious" based on your opinion.
FYi:
You said I said your argument was complex, going on to say that I didn't understand it because I'm not a musician such as yourself. But I never characterized your argument as "complex", I characterized it as "convoluted", because that word carries a different connotation. A convoluted argument is one that tries to sound complex for the purpose of persuasion, but when a listener/reader weeds through all the convolutions in the argument, they realize (as I did) that it's all BS designed to obfuscate the truth. And the truth is, the soundtrack sucks.
The Wook
The Wook
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G W Zipper
Well-Known Member
My ten year old son was humming Rey's Theme at the dinner table last night.
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
Axlotl
Master Member
The only aspect of the score I can comment on is Rey's Theme, because I've listened to it over and over again trying to understand why people like it so much (and I honestly didn't even notice the score while watching the movie).
I'm going to go ahead and qualify my critique by saying that I'm also a former musician (rock'n'roll counts, right?).
As a piece of music it's pretty, but I'm not hearing "hero's journey" in it at all. It's too mechanical and repetitive and whimsical.
It conjures images of fireflies and faeries. It would be more at home in "Fantasia" than it is in "Star Wars".
It sounds like a Maxfield Parrish painting. I could see it as the end credit music to a Peter Pan movie.
A theme should be utilitarian. It should be easily manipulated to convey a wide range of emotions.
A good theme can be made to sound sad, or angry, or bombastic, or inquisitive, and still be recognizable.
I have no idea how JW's going to pull that off with Rey's Theme.
I'm still not sure which part of it is the theme...
Is it the buggy little flutes and oboes? The chimes? Or the sweeping, but incoherent, violins and trumpets?
I'm curious to see (hear?) how it's handled in the future, because as a musician myself, I'm struggling with how I would manipulate this music to convey other emotions.
The emotion it's conveying now is whimsy, and I'm afraid that it's the actual melodies, the structure, giving it that tone.
Which means that however you try to play this piece of music, it's going to sound whimsical.
Which is wrong for a hero in a Star Wars movie.
So that's my 2 cents. Sorry for butting in
.
I'm going to go ahead and qualify my critique by saying that I'm also a former musician (rock'n'roll counts, right?).
As a piece of music it's pretty, but I'm not hearing "hero's journey" in it at all. It's too mechanical and repetitive and whimsical.
It conjures images of fireflies and faeries. It would be more at home in "Fantasia" than it is in "Star Wars".
It sounds like a Maxfield Parrish painting. I could see it as the end credit music to a Peter Pan movie.
A theme should be utilitarian. It should be easily manipulated to convey a wide range of emotions.
A good theme can be made to sound sad, or angry, or bombastic, or inquisitive, and still be recognizable.
I have no idea how JW's going to pull that off with Rey's Theme.
I'm still not sure which part of it is the theme...
Is it the buggy little flutes and oboes? The chimes? Or the sweeping, but incoherent, violins and trumpets?
I'm curious to see (hear?) how it's handled in the future, because as a musician myself, I'm struggling with how I would manipulate this music to convey other emotions.
The emotion it's conveying now is whimsy, and I'm afraid that it's the actual melodies, the structure, giving it that tone.
Which means that however you try to play this piece of music, it's going to sound whimsical.
Which is wrong for a hero in a Star Wars movie.
So that's my 2 cents. Sorry for butting in
.
tubachris85x
Master Member
The only aspect of the score I can comment on is Rey's Theme, because I've listened to it over and over again trying to understand why people like it so much (and I honestly didn't even notice the score while watching the movie).
I'm going to go ahead and qualify my critique by saying that I'm also a former musician (rock'n'roll counts, right?).
As a piece of music it's pretty, but I'm not hearing "hero's journey" in it at all. It's too mechanical and repetitive and whimsical.
It conjures images of fireflies and faeries. It would be more at home in "Fantasia" than it is in "Star Wars".
It sounds like a Maxfield Parrish painting. I could see it as the end credit music to a Peter Pan movie.
A theme should be utilitarian. It should be easily manipulated to convey a wide range of emotions.
A good theme can be made to sound sad, or angry, or bombastic, or inquisitive, and still be recognizable.
I have no idea how JW's going to pull that off with Rey's Theme.
I'm still not sure which part of it is the theme...
Is it the buggy little flutes and oboes? The chimes? Or the sweeping, but incoherent, violins and trumpets?
I'm curious to see (hear?) how it's handled in the future, because as a musician myself, I'm struggling with how I would manipulate this music to convey other emotions.
The emotion it's conveying now is whimsy, and I'm afraid that it's the actual melodies, the structure, giving it that tone.
Which means that however you try to play this piece of music, it's going to sound whimsical.
Which is wrong for a hero in a Star Wars movie.
So that's my 2 cents. Sorry for butting in
That's a good way of putting it for her track. I think contextually that's what he was aiming for, because the character herself is suppose to be unknown at this point.
I see your point about the melody needing to be "utilitarian" in that it needs to be able to cover a wide range of emotions, but I think that comes down to the artist/composer's talent and creativity. I don't think JW would not be able to create variations of his own work.
To add, much like deleted scenes from films, I know there's more tracks that were more than likely not used (or even on the existing soundtrack). The theme used in the last major trailer utilizing the theme from bespin in ESB is not on the current available album.
Listen to the opening of track 8 "Tales of the Jedi" on the A New Hope soundtrack...I think that's the most common reoccurring melody in all of time in the star wars franchise. That specific melody has quite a few variations, even in TFA. It does get mixed into a various arrangements of emotions from, "sad" to "bombastic." In this specific track, it's what "whimsical." In the context, it's about look learning about the Force from Kenobi. It falls in line with the movie. Fast forward to track 10, "Battle of Yavin," at about the 1:28 mark, you'll hear the same them from track 8, but in that more bombastic, "heroic" style.
I think just because we haven't heard another variation of Rey's theme that it's hard to see it as a possibility. Even then, whichever parts he re-uses are to be determined, and molded into a more concise and recognizable format later in the series.
tubachris85x
Master Member
Even the "Throne Room" theme on the track is a perfect example of the same theme as a march
Yes, I'm so sure JW wrote Rey's Theme to be mechanical, repetitive, whimsical, incoherent, and theme-less on purpose, because she's a new character we don't know much about. Good grief.
Good music helps *define* characters in movies--like Luke's Theme. We knew nothing about Luke when we first hear his theme.
Axlotl writes a long post ripping TFA's soundtrack, and specifically Rey's (theme-less) Theme, and you try to turn it around that Axlotl is right, but JW meant to do that. lol
Wow, man. If I didn't know any better I'd think you were JW's son, or something like that.
The Wook
tubachris85x
Master Member
My last name is Williams after all
Axlotl
Master Member
And that's my point.
That little piece of music is a simple, catchy melody. I could play it on piano. I could play it on guitar.
I can play it fast or slow, or loud or quiet. I could serenade a pretty girl with it - or incite a riot.
It's a THEME.
Rey's "theme" is a polished piece of music. Layers and layers of music.
I couldn't play it on piano or guitar. I couldn't play it without an orchestra.
It sounds like it belongs in a Tchaikovsky ballet, or a Vivaldi opera.
Like I said, I'm curious to hear how he manipulates it, but as it stands, it's decidedly not a theme.
Not for a human being, at any rate.
Pick out the parts of Rey's "theme" that sound like they might possibly be thematic elements and play them on the instrument of your choice.
Then come back and tell me they sound appropriate as a theme for (A): a hero, (B): a human, and (C): a girl.
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tubachris85x
Master Member
What I feel is the "theme" is built up and finally introduced in it's "true" form, starting around the 2:16 mark. Up until then they're variations on that final, consistent melody
Axlotl
Master Member
Okay, so I just found this:
I guess it can be played on guitar.
What I *HOPE* is the actual "theme" of this piece is the middle bit, around 42 seconds into this vid (the strings and trumpets part on the soundtrack).
That part has potential.
Unfortunately, what stands out is the buggy, repetitive, robotic, beginning and end - which to my mind was a very poor choice.
I hope JW loses that bit entirely in future iterations of this theme.
(And that's probably the bit that people love the most about this piece :facepalm )
I guess it can be played on guitar
.What I *HOPE* is the actual "theme" of this piece is the middle bit, around 42 seconds into this vid (the strings and trumpets part on the soundtrack).
That part has potential.
Unfortunately, what stands out is the buggy, repetitive, robotic, beginning and end - which to my mind was a very poor choice.
I hope JW loses that bit entirely in future iterations of this theme.
(And that's probably the bit that people love the most about this piece :facepalm )
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Jaitea
Master Member
This is the Main Theme from ESB swapped into TFA Main Theme,....it gives it so much power
robn1
Master Member
I just saw it again in a much better theater, and the music stood out with a lot more clarity. The score really worked for me this time. Variations of Rey's theme are used in certain parts, especially when Rey runs out of Maz's castle and during the flight to find Luke, it's much more powerful here and not "whimsical" at all. I never got whimsy from it anyway, but rather a sense of youthful innocence.
Yeah that was the key stand-out thing I noticed not like any of the other scores was the feeling of absence of power of the opening theme. It was almost like they had about half the orchestra in attendance to record that and then the rest was fine after that.
It was the only time I wish they just recycled the opening theme from the OT or prequel scores for that scroll. From what I heard on the prequels I think they used the exact recording all 3 times. The OT I can tell from the first note which film it belongs to. TFA's opening note lacks that huge glorious BAM factor. I wouldn't mind if they changed that one thing for the home release.
It was the only time I wish they just recycled the opening theme from the OT or prequel scores for that scroll. From what I heard on the prequels I think they used the exact recording all 3 times. The OT I can tell from the first note which film it belongs to. TFA's opening note lacks that huge glorious BAM factor. I wouldn't mind if they changed that one thing for the home release.
Rey's theme reminds me of a lesser version of this:
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Victor3
Sr Member
While I was also initially let down by the soundtrack, I have come to like it more and more after a second viewing, and listening to it. Unlike some of these folks, I'm no musician, but here's my take:
At first, I was disappointed because the soundtrack was not nearly as bombastic as the previous movies. It felt out of place by comparison. But then, I think about the emotions being conveyed by the music - the promises contained therein - if you will.
In the OT, the music supported the grand adventure, the true hero's journey. It was a grand, timeless tale, and the music definitely was intended to set it apart from other scifi of the era.
In the PT, the music seemed more melodramatic, to tell the tale of this grand society that was tragically falling apart, as was its hero. (granted, the script didn't back this up, but the music did a good job)
This first installment of the ST feels like it's about the broken promise of the OT. The hero had his grand journey, the evil was defeated, everything would end happily ever after. But it didn't. So, I think the music reinforces that. The themes are more subdued, uncertain. Not only are we uncertain of the new characters and what they represent, but they are as well. Rey's music feels resigned at first, then excited, then hesitant before becoming triumphant at the end of the movie. Kylo goes the opposite way, bold music when feeling confident in his mission at first, but becoming less certain and confused over the course of the film.
Granted, I would have liked the soundtrack to embrace the original themes a bit more enthusiastically. Particularly during the Falcon chase and the X-wing battle at the end. The music riffs on the originals, but cuts it off too soon for my liking.
At first, I was disappointed because the soundtrack was not nearly as bombastic as the previous movies. It felt out of place by comparison. But then, I think about the emotions being conveyed by the music - the promises contained therein - if you will.
In the OT, the music supported the grand adventure, the true hero's journey. It was a grand, timeless tale, and the music definitely was intended to set it apart from other scifi of the era.
In the PT, the music seemed more melodramatic, to tell the tale of this grand society that was tragically falling apart, as was its hero. (granted, the script didn't back this up, but the music did a good job)
This first installment of the ST feels like it's about the broken promise of the OT. The hero had his grand journey, the evil was defeated, everything would end happily ever after. But it didn't. So, I think the music reinforces that. The themes are more subdued, uncertain. Not only are we uncertain of the new characters and what they represent, but they are as well. Rey's music feels resigned at first, then excited, then hesitant before becoming triumphant at the end of the movie. Kylo goes the opposite way, bold music when feeling confident in his mission at first, but becoming less certain and confused over the course of the film.
Granted, I would have liked the soundtrack to embrace the original themes a bit more enthusiastically. Particularly during the Falcon chase and the X-wing battle at the end. The music riffs on the originals, but cuts it off too soon for my liking.
I'll have to see the movie again, but the music in this didn't really wow me like even the Prequel scores did. I don't know if it's because they didn't use the LSO for this or what.
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