The BIG Star wars question

astroboy

astroboy

Master Member
When did Lucas decide that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker?

Because if you watch Star wars, the groundwork was being laid.
 
Read "The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back".. It was in story sessions with Larry Kasdan and Irvin Kerschner. They were trying to come up with what Vader could say that would shatter Luke's world, and that's what ultimately came out. I'd have to go back and check to see which of them actually said it. I am pretty sure it was George. And it wasn't put in the script. It was probably the most closely guarded movie secret up to that time. They had a filler line in the script (one version was "Obi-Wan killed your father"). Mark was told to imagine the worst thing anyone could tell him, the gut-wrenching emotional agony of worse news than he'd ever imagined. Dave Prowse wasn't told. James Earl got a script in the recording booth with the line crossed out and was handed a note card with the actual line that George had just written on it when they got to that point...

But yeah. It was sometime in 1979. For the first film, Vader and Anakin were separate people in George's mind. Just like how, in Empire, the "other" was indeed going to turn out to be Luke's sister, but she was going to be someone we hadn't met yet, who'd be introduced in the next film. It didn't become Leia until George decided he didn't want to spend the rest of his life doing Star Wars, scrubbed the first three Obi-Wan episodes, and mushed the last four Luke films into Return of the Jedi and called it done. Part of the Star Wars meta drinking game. Any time George says in an interview he "always intended it to be X", drink.

--Jonah
 
Inquisitor Peregrinus said:
Read "The Making of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back".. It was in story sessions with Larry Kasdan and Irvin Kerschner. They were trying to come up with what Vader could say that would shatter Luke's world, and that's what ultimately came out. I'd have to go back and check to see which of them actually said it. I am pretty sure it was George. And it wasn't put in the script. It was probably the most closely guarded movie secret up to that time. They had a filler line in the script (one version was "Obi-Wan killed your father"). Mark was told to imagine the worst thing anyone could tell him, the gut-wrenching emotional agony of worse news than he'd ever imagined. Dave Prowse wasn't told. James Earl got a script in the recording booth with the line crossed out and was handed a note card with the actual line that George had just written on it when they got to that point...

But yeah. It was sometime in 1979. For the first film, Vader and Anakin were separate people in George's mind. Just like how, in Empire, the "other" was indeed going to turn out to be Luke's sister, but she was going to be someone we hadn't met yet, who'd be introduced in the next film. It didn't become Leia until George decided he didn't want to spend the rest of his life doing Star Wars, scrubbed the first three Obi-Wan episodes, and mushed the last four Luke films into Return of the Jedi and called it done. Part of the Star Wars meta drinking game. Any time George says in an interview he "always intended it to be X", drink.

--Jonah
Click to expand...

i recently learned when ANH was released and star wars blew up, Dave Prowse was being interviewed buy some British magazine. the magazine made a comment about him playing the guy who killed lukes father. and prowse replied back with "wouldnt it be something else if darth vader was lukes father?" this got back to lucas and he blew up, prowse was known for having bragging lips in interviews and letting too much info out. though i dont believe lucas had this idea at the time of vader being lukes father, BUT it still really pissed him off that prowse was going around spreading this rumor. the documentary goes into good depth on this magazine article

i didnt believe this and took it as a prowse fib, but the magazine clipping backed it up and they showed it in the documentary. it was that netflix documentary of prowse. he claims lucas never said anything about Vader being lukes father to him, and he was quiet surprised that vader turned out to be his father in ESB. he learned of it, while watching ESB at the premier with everyone else. because he was under the impression Vader told luke "obiwan killed your father"

have you seen the documentary its really good! i thought it was funny how prowse in the end was the first to make this kind of comment. so did lucas end up using prowse idea or was this the idea all along?
 
As with many things, Lucas probably had it floating around in his subconscious after that Prowse interview, and the energy of the story session brought it out. He'd probably forgotten Prowse ever even said that. *heh*

--Jonah
 
halliwax said:
i recently learned when ANH was released and star wars blew up, Dave Prowse was being interviewed buy some British magazine. the magazine made a comment about him playing the guy who killed lukes father. and prowse replied back with "wouldnt it be something else if darth vader was lukes father?" this got back to lucas and he blew up, prowse was known for having bragging lips in interviews and letting too much info out. though i dont believe lucas had this idea at the time of vader being lukes father, BUT it still really pissed him off that prowse was going around spreading this rumor. the documentary goes into good depth on this magazine article

i didnt believe this and took it as a prowse fib, but the magazine clipping backed it up and they showed it in the documentary. it was that netflix documentary of prowse. he claims lucas never said anything about Vader being lukes father to him, and he was quiet surprised that vader turned out to be his father in ESB. he learned of it, while watching ESB at the premier with everyone else. because he was under the impression Vader told luke "obiwan killed your father"

have you seen the documentary its really good! i thought it was funny how prowse in the end was the first to make this kind of comment. so did lucas end up using prowse idea or was this the idea all along?
Click to expand...

Hey halliwax, is that Prowse documentary still streaming on Netflix? Google says it's called, "I Am Your Father", but I did a search for that on Netflix and nothing came up.

The Wook
 
The similarity between 'Darth Vader' and 'Dark Father' makes me think the idea was forming in GL's mind long before Prowse joked with reporters. 'Vader' isn't exactly the same word as 'Vater' but it's close.
 
Might have been interesting if Vader was a clone of Luke's father, murdering him and then taking his place.
After ESB came out, we still were not sure Vader wasn't lying. ROTJ Luke still obviously wasn't sure either,
asking Yoda for confirmation. Could Yoda and Ghost Ben been lying to Luke?
 
I think that I'm in the extreme minority in wishing that Vader had killed Skywalker. It would have been interesting to see where the story went.
 
Rupert_Angier said:
I think that I'm in the extreme minority in wishing that Vader had killed Skywalker. It would have been interesting to see where the story went.
Click to expand...

It would have kept things not so damn Skywalker family centric that's for sure.
They got the big epic shocking I'm your father drama scene but it did come at a cost I think,
we ended up in soap opera territory.
 
Rupert_Angier said:
I think that I'm in the extreme minority in wishing that Vader had killed Skywalker. It would have been interesting to see where the story went.
Click to expand...
I would have love to see that happen at the end of ESB.

I think it would have given the cast more to do in the third.

Especially because Leia would have risen up to be the Jedi to take down palatine.

And Han would have had much more incentive. As it is, his character felt a bit dulled down in rotj.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
astroboy said:
I would have love to see that happen at the end of ESB.

I think it would have given the cast more to do in the third.

Especially because Leia would have risen up to be the Jedi to take down palatine.

And Han would have had much more incentive. As it is, his character felt a bit dulled down in rotj.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

As in, keeping Vader and Anakin as two separate people, with Vader having killed Skywalker.
 
Since we're talking about Vader....I was wondering. The official cannon of how he becomes Vader was the fear of losing Padme, which was quite different than most would have expected. So what were most of you hoping the reason other than it ended up being for his turn to the dark side.
They did show he had some anger issues, but that seemed more like a side thing when compared to saving her.
 
JediMichael said:
Since we're talking about Vader....I was wondering. The official cannon of how he becomes Vader was the fear of losing Padme, which was quite different than most would have expected. So what were most of you hoping the reason other than it ended up being for his turn to the dark side.
They did show he had some anger issues, but that seemed more like a side thing when compared to saving her.
Click to expand...
Anakin had mother issues (murdered by Sandpeople) and arguably daddy issues as well (he didn't have one!). I'm sure there's a lot of Freudian material here.

Also Sideous manipulated him and Obi-Wan chopped him up. So lots of problems.
 
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