CaptCBoard
Well-Known Member
Who is right or who is wrong isn't the point. The point is I have my reliable information, acquired from the mouths of the people who did the work; and then there are others who like to quote publications that were written after the fact by people who did not do the work. I didn't do my research by books alone, I went to the original sources. My problem is, I talked with them years after the work was done and I have a feeling some information may have gotten re-arranged-- even I can't ignore what you guys have presented from the printed material. But, consider this-- the work shown as being done using black primer and then subsequently covered by a white gloss could have been done on the hero models, but the use of Krylon Platinum Gray primer could have been used on the pyro models. This actually makes sense as they could not have handled the pyro models the same way as the hero models as they were fairly fragile. When I talked with Dave Beasley and David Jones, they said nothing about the black-and-white process, they just chuckled over using Krylon as the base because since then they've both worked on projects where the requirements for a paint job was so much more intense.
As for models being painted white, it is true there have been models that were painted white. I do have to point out that all of the models mentioned in the prior post were either used in television exclusively (where the shadow values don't matter as they won't show up as well) or they were very large models. I should also say that while some were painted white, none of them remained that way-- they were heavily weathered to the point the white was toned down enough that it didn't flare. Yes, its true the noses of the Eagle Transporters were white and not weathered too much-- one for your side, though still used on TV. But the Star Trek models were heavily paneled in different shades, especially the ST:TMP version, which was covered exclusively in panels of pearlescent paint-- some white, most not. However, in that case, they were deliberately exposing for the paint itself, since they were so close to that model. And I should point out that since that film, any time the camera got close to an Enterprise model, it was a close-up section made just for the shot and the white value could be controlled in the exposure. I can only think of one show where the models were painted dead white-- 'V'. Again, these were used exclusively on TV. For that show, almost all the composites were daylight shots and having a bright, white ship helped. And since the ships had no surface detail beyond those very large black windows, white just did not matter.
To put the discussion of 'white or not' to rest, this should also be said... At the time ANH was made, film stocks performed in a certain way. A pure white object against blue screen (or black) was not conducive to getting the shots. Remember the talk about the blue 'polluting' the white, making it harder to pull the matte? Well, at this point, we should both note that the discussion is really about the end result. Yes, from the accounts in print, white probably was used for the ANH hero models, but at the same time it was toned way down by the final painting process-- so we are not discussing if white can be used or not, just if any models were actually 'white' when photographed and I think we both can agree nothing was pure white at that point.
Just to put this to rest, I'm going to contact David Jones and quiz him. If I'm wrong, I don't want to go on not knowing it. I can't dispute what it is print and I don't really want to. I just pass along what those who know have told me.
Scott
As for models being painted white, it is true there have been models that were painted white. I do have to point out that all of the models mentioned in the prior post were either used in television exclusively (where the shadow values don't matter as they won't show up as well) or they were very large models. I should also say that while some were painted white, none of them remained that way-- they were heavily weathered to the point the white was toned down enough that it didn't flare. Yes, its true the noses of the Eagle Transporters were white and not weathered too much-- one for your side, though still used on TV. But the Star Trek models were heavily paneled in different shades, especially the ST:TMP version, which was covered exclusively in panels of pearlescent paint-- some white, most not. However, in that case, they were deliberately exposing for the paint itself, since they were so close to that model. And I should point out that since that film, any time the camera got close to an Enterprise model, it was a close-up section made just for the shot and the white value could be controlled in the exposure. I can only think of one show where the models were painted dead white-- 'V'. Again, these were used exclusively on TV. For that show, almost all the composites were daylight shots and having a bright, white ship helped. And since the ships had no surface detail beyond those very large black windows, white just did not matter.
To put the discussion of 'white or not' to rest, this should also be said... At the time ANH was made, film stocks performed in a certain way. A pure white object against blue screen (or black) was not conducive to getting the shots. Remember the talk about the blue 'polluting' the white, making it harder to pull the matte? Well, at this point, we should both note that the discussion is really about the end result. Yes, from the accounts in print, white probably was used for the ANH hero models, but at the same time it was toned way down by the final painting process-- so we are not discussing if white can be used or not, just if any models were actually 'white' when photographed and I think we both can agree nothing was pure white at that point.
Just to put this to rest, I'm going to contact David Jones and quiz him. If I'm wrong, I don't want to go on not knowing it. I can't dispute what it is print and I don't really want to. I just pass along what those who know have told me.
Scott