x-wing drawings?

That's really neat! Thanks for sharing it. All the work shown here is awesome! I'm very impressed with the level of detail and accuracy. It seems we (and when I say "we" I mean all you very talented people) are not far from being able to render an "accurate" (okay, that will never completely be defined to everyone's agreement) set of construction or reference plans for one or more of the various models, or at least one "idealized" version. I'd be really happy to have that in hand when model building.

Marcus
tyvm! once this version finally gets finished i want to do a digital "life sized kitbash" modeling the real-world parts instead of the model kit versions!



Fabulous work.

Looks very promising. Though I'd need to see some ortho top and side views (with the canopy down) - and also 3/4 views with the camera much further back and zoomed in, to tell whether you've really attained the nutty standard for my idea of X perfection...! Also, you might try softening the edges of the nose a bit...

About the canopy front width. Does that make a ratio with the saturn V diameter of 27: 47mm?

i dont have a very good wireframe shader right now, but here's a first set of orthos (i wasnt happy with how my nosecone looked so it's been stretched about 2/3"
View attachment 19659
also, its just a rough-out still. as i planned to finalize the fuselage last. one other note aside from the nosecone:
the "side-rails" along the front are a little steeper, kind-of an inbetween from the model and the full sized Red-1 set piece.

Is there anyone here NOT working on a digital X-Wing? :lol
hehee, its a great 3d subject isnt it!?!? :lol i like your model too!
 
Is there anyone here NOT working on a digital X-Wing? :lol

This is all great info!

Stonky, that's NOT a CG model, it's a Salzo kit! You faker! It has tells like the Salzo engine nozzles, with the internal chamfer. :p

Seriously, that's nice work. Your nozzles would be more accurate without the chamfer, but otherwise it looks spot-on.

OylPslyk, yours is looking really good too! Also congrats on having the hardest-to-type screen name of any user after Beaz. :p
 
I've been mulling over the idea of "idealizing" the dimensions, and whilst I'm not entirely averse to the idea, I'm not really sure how one would go about it.

I can see how exactly replicating all of the wiggliness along the edges of the upper and lower fuselage as seen here would not only be undesirable, but also difficult to achieve -

wiggles.jpg


- but I don't see that you'd want to go much further. Take for example the roof of the cockpit. In essence, it's a simple isosceles trapezoid, but in actuality, there's a lot of subtle curvature to it. the front part swoops downward to meet the forward canopy smoothly, rather than having an abrupt angle at the "hinge" line, the sides are curved, and the rear corners have a sizeable chamfer to them.

Now consider, as an example, the eFx x-wing's cockpit roof. I know that many people would probably consider the entire canopy on the eFx to be one of it's weakspots, with its toy-like hinge and obvious join line, but look beyond those aspects and notice how the idealized roof also has a horribly boxy appearance when compared with original miniatures:

trapezoids.jpg


In my opinion, that's an idealization too far. It's clear to me, at least, that if and edge is almost straight, a surface almost flat, one ought to be cautious about making it completely straight, completely flat.

The most difficult issue is the asymmetry. Obviously, the miniatures weren't intentionally created that way, but since they are asymmetrical, how should one go about eliminating the asymmetry? One might simply decide upon a mirror plane (and how would one do that?) and for each pair of points that one feels ought to be symmetrical, place them at the average distance from the mirror plane. Alternatively, one might surmise that for each pair of points, one or the other is closer to the "intended" location, and move the other point to the corresponding mirrored location, or one might come up with a completely different method.

The real difficulty arises when you realise that, having altered the topography of at least half the model, you now need to devise a method for relocating the non-symmetrical details onto this altered topography. Since the entire model is pretty much covered in non-symmetrical details in the form of panel lines and weathering, it's not a trivial problem.

Suggestions?
 
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Thanks all for the comments, it's been a labor of love. :)

Stonky, that's NOT a CG model, it's a Salzo kit! You faker! It has tells like the Salzo engine nozzles, with the internal chamfer. :p

Seriously, that's nice work. Your nozzles would be more accurate without the chamfer, but otherwise it looks spot-on.

Hehehe...yeah, good eye, those are old renders - the chamfer was removed quite some time ago. ;) I'll try to post something more recent when I get the chance. Seems like everyone is spending as much time combing over the fuselage that I am. :lol
 
Also no pictures visible. Anyone?

Ray, for left/right asymmetries I don't advocate mirroring either side of the model as this would be visibly odd. You'd increase the width of some items and decrease that of others to a noticeable extent.

I would advocate taking and using each of the width dimensions as-is, just making sure they are centred on the centreline. So if the widest point of the cockpit cutout is offset to port by 5mm, say, then the idealised version uses the same width, but centred on the centreline. Ditto the 27mm front edge, etc, etc etc.
 
I've been mulling over the idea of "idealizing" the dimensions, and whilst I'm not entirely averse to the idea, I'm not really sure how one would go about it.

I can see how exactly replicating all of the wiggliness along the edges of the upper and lower fuselage as seen here would not only be undesirable, but also difficult to achieve -

attachment.php
- but I don't see that you'd want to go much further. Take for example the roof of the cockpit. In essence, it's a simple isosceles trapezoid, but in actuality, there's a lot of subtle curvature to it. the front part swoops downward to meet the forward canopy smoothly, rather than having an abrupt angle at the "hinge" line, the sides are curved, and the rear corners have a sizeable chamfer to them.

Now consider, as an example, the eFx x-wing's cockpit roof. I know that many people would probably consider the entire canopy on the eFx to be one of it's weakspots, with its toy-like hinge and obvious join line, but look beyond those aspects and notice how the idealized roof also has a horribly boxy appearance when compared with original miniatures:

attachment.php
In my opinion, that's an idealization too far. It's clear to me, at least, that if and edge is almost straight, a surface almost flat, one ought to be cautious about making it completely straight, completely flat.

Ray, I agree with you almost completely. I think you are confusing what I mean by idealization with simplification. What I mean by idealization is to straighten out areas that are obviously warped - not to straighten out areas that appear to be meant to have a bit of roundness. To decide between the two cases, one has to pay very close attention to the photographs, but such a thing is fairly easy to see. Where the top plane above the R2 strip meets with the back window, it is not a sharp angle. There is roundness there that I believe whole-heartedly should stay. I am not at all for simplification of features that are quite obviously intended to be there. I am only for ironing out warpages and other imperfections that are clearly not supposed to be there.

The most difficult issue is the asymmetry. Obviously, the miniatures weren't intentionally created that way, but since they are asymmetrical, how should one go about eliminating the asymmetry?

This is what I meant when I said its almost too hard to tell what was exactly intended, in all cases, and a decision has to be made at some point. In some places its very straightforward to see what was intended and what was not, and in other places it's more difficult to tell. On the one hand you're trying to recreate asymmetry on purpose, which I personally would not do. But that's just my own preference. I would gladly point out where the fuselage is asymmetrical for someone who wished to recreate it. The only qualms I have with this are purely conceptual. If someone is so concerned about reproducing every teeny tiny flaw, and they set out to do it, I can't help but notice that this task is impossible - because they will miss some flaws and introduce their own. If they are THAT concerned with it, they might drive themselves insane :wacko! But, of course, anyone is free to do whatever they want and reproduce whatever imperfections they want until it looks good enough to them and they are happy with their own model.

One might simply decide upon a mirror plane (and how would one do that?) and for each pair of points that one feels ought to be symmetrical, place them at the average distance from the mirror plane.

Well, one could make an educated guess on where the mirror plane might be, and all of us could take a look and see if that looks feasible or not. I can't imagine that all symmetrical configurations would look 'wrong' unless you're judging it by each and every imperfection of the asymmetrical version, which is precisely what's in question here to begin with.

Alternatively, one might surmise that for each pair of points, one or the other is closer to the "intended" location, and move the other point to the corresponding mirrored location, or one might come up with a completely different method.

The method I use goes like this. Pretend you look at an X Wing from top view and see that it is severely wiggly - it wiggles back and forth, deviating in either direction all the way along the fuselage. What I would do is pick either the very rear or the very front as a starting point, measure down or up a certain distance, and take the measurement of the whole width at that point. Then in a 're-symmetrized' model, I would make sure 1/2 of that distance is on one side of the midline, and 1/2 is on the other. This doesn't commit me to any specific mirror plane on the original warped model, but allows me to straighten things out.

The real difficulty arises when you realise that, having altered the topography of at least half the model, you now need to devise a method for relocating the non-symmetrical details onto this altered topography. Since the entire model is pretty much covered in non-symmetrical details in the form of panel lines and weathering, it's not a trivial problem.

The panel lines could be relocated in a very similar manner. to how the fuselage is 'ironed out' or straightened. Once that is resolved, the weathering patterns can be located relative to both the panel lines and the larger fuselage features.

Weathering is another thing that could not conceivably be replicated perfectly. There are what appears to me to be little nicks on the surface that were made by letting a rotary tool hit the surface somewhat randomly. You can either copy the method - but your random nicks will not come out the same. Or you can try to replicate each little nick manually by some other method. If you do not go nuts trying to do it, it will not necessarily look like the same effect. Recreating the weathering, too, is the responsibility of each individual builder. Once you have the overall geometry and the panel lines in place, then take a look at the weathering of the X Wing of your choice, squint your eyes, and pretend the model in the picture is symmetrical. This way you ought to be able to locate a particular weathering mark with relative ease. The same could be done with a CG model.

At the bottom line, it all comes down to what the builder thinks looks right or good to their own eye. If they cannot be satisfied with anything short of replicating all the asymmetry and warpage, then they are free to do as they see fit.

In a few minutes I am going to make another (shorter) post...
 
Also no pictures visible. Anyone?

Ray, for left/right asymmetries I don't advocate mirroring either side of the model as this would be visibly odd. You'd increase the width of some items and decrease that of others to a noticeable extent.

I would advocate taking and using each of the width dimensions as-is, just making sure they are centred on the centreline. So if the widest point of the cockpit cutout is offset to port by 5mm, say, then the idealised version uses the same width, but centred on the centreline. Ditto the 27mm front edge, etc, etc etc.

Yes, this is exactly my method :love.
 
I have attached a screenshot of a first approximation to the problem area. I have a fairly good grasp of how the geometry goes. Now it is just a matter of figuring out how to recreate it in the parametric modeler. In this case it's a bit tricky, but I have some ideas about how to make some improvements.

In addition to my post above, I wanted to say that there is a bevel on the front edges of the wings. Eliminating this bevel, in my book, would be unnecessary (over)simplification - not at all what I would consider idealization.

I am off work today and Monday so I've got quite a long weekend to work on this. I had taken a break for a couple of days because I got a bit burnt out working on this too much. After I am done with the X, and everyone is satisfied, I am going to take another break... Until I have the means to work on some of my builds. Maybe in the meantime I'll pick up philosophy again and work on some of my writing projects.

*sigh* I have too many hobbies. :lol
 
Suffice to say, if we were to take the actual studio model, scan it 3D (with an ultra-high resolution scanner of course) and blow it up to life size...I would think the result would be...disappointing.

We have to make some assumptions on how the x-wing, if it really existed, would have been engineered and built today. Would the cockpit canopy, or hull have sharp angles? Would there be an angular transition between the upper and lower hull? Was the original design meant to be blocky, or designed that way to accomodate the filming technology of that era? Would the engines and wingtip lasers be made to look like semi-conducter heatsinks?

The above questions may never be answered, but each of us has an opportunity to make the design of how we feel it could have, or should have been. To make an exact replica of one of the SS models would be nice but it still would not be the original. So why not "improve" the design based on what we know, assume, and dream.

TazMan2000
 
Suffice to say, if we were to take the actual studio model, scan it 3D (with an ultra-high resolution scanner of course) and blow it up to life size...I would think the result would be...disappointing.

We have to make some assumptions on how the x-wing, if it really existed, would have been engineered and built today. Would the cockpit canopy, or hull have sharp angles? Would there be an angular transition between the upper and lower hull? Was the original design meant to be blocky, or designed that way to accomodate the filming technology of that era? Would the engines and wingtip lasers be made to look like semi-conducter heatsinks?

The above questions may never be answered, but each of us has an opportunity to make the design of how we feel it could have, or should have been. To make an exact replica of one of the SS models would be nice but it still would not be the original. So why not "improve" the design based on what we know, assume, and dream.

TazMan2000

One could do that if one wished.

But me, I'd never be disappointed in a scan of an ILM X. Red 3 for instance looks symmetrical enough for my taste in this recent topshot; it ain't bent like a banana, and I bet you, even Red 5's asymmetry would be only really noticeable in a dead-on front view. The V3 canopy is asymmetrical but no one has ever complained about that here, not even me, because I don't have a problem with it.

Also, the forum's about replica props - and that means replica props. Which is what a scanned out-of-true ILM X is and what an improved X isn't, teehee. Film props, to me, actually become more interesting the more imperfect they are, because it's a sign of the economy of filmmaking, that balance between what needs to be done and what doesn't for the illusion to work on screen.

But don't get me wrong, we can only build what's buildable, and Flintlock's going about it the right way. I'm just defending the concept of a scanned warps-and-all ILM X.
 
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I have attached a screenshot of a first approximation to the problem area. I have a fairly good grasp of how the geometry goes. Now it is just a matter of figuring out how to recreate it in the parametric modeler. In this case it's a bit tricky, but I have some ideas about how to make some improvements.

In addition to my post above, I wanted to say that there is a bevel on the front edges of the wings. Eliminating this bevel, in my book, would be unnecessary (over)simplification - not at all what I would consider idealization.

I am off work today and Monday so I've got quite a long weekend to work on this. I had taken a break for a couple of days because I got a bit burnt out working on this too much. After I am done with the X, and everyone is satisfied, I am going to take another break... Until I have the means to work on some of my builds. Maybe in the meantime I'll pick up philosophy again and work on some of my writing projects.

*sigh* I have too many hobbies. :lol

It's coming along... I can imagine the project might cause burnout! Take it easy..!
 
Oylpslyk. Thanks for those ortho views. I'll hold off commenting as you're still working on the fuse, apart from to say, the sides of the top view nose look a bit too parallel at the moment, tip of the side view nose is too sharp, canopy top view doesn't taper enough. But it's looking pretty darn good on the whole, keep going!
 
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i dont have a very good wireframe shader right now, but here's a first set of orthos (i wasnt happy with how my nosecone looked so it's been stretched about 2/3"
View attachment 19659

This is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread! Could you post similar orthos of the wings/engines/cannons? Even a few work-in-progress images would be helpful and great to see. I'm doing a study (and re-build) of the Hasbro FX toy. Apparently it's generally accepted to have been based on the Icons X-Wing. It's been shortened a bit here and there, and drawings like these are most valuable to this study.

Anyone posting images might want to include a date/status stamp for reference and your name for credit. I have a feeling that you guys will be forever tweaking and adjusting your models and drawings!

Marcus
 
i dont have a very good wireframe shader right now, but here's a first set of orthos (i wasnt happy with how my nosecone looked so it's been stretched about 2/3"
View attachment 19659

This is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread! Could you post similar orthos of the wings/engines/cannons? Even a few work-in-progress images would be helpful and great to see. I'm doing a study (and re-build) of the Hasbro FX toy. Apparently it's generally accepted to have been based on the Icons X-Wing. It's been shortened a bit here and there, and drawings like these are most valuable to this study.

Anyone posting images might want to include a date/status stamp for reference and your name for credit. I have a feeling that you guys will be forever tweaking and adjusting your models and drawings!

Marcus

Marcus, I also intend to create a set of blueprint drawings from the 3D models I end up with.

Hope you didn't think we were getting too far off course!
 
Marcus, the Hasbro X-wing is nice, I have one too. Just in case you're not aware, though, it's not only been shortened here and there but is quite a bit smaller overall than an ILM X-wing. The intake parts are greatly smaller than real Saturn V kit parts, for example.
 
Just thought i would throw my drawing in the mix here. Not 100% accurate, but i did it in cad. one day ill do a 3d version when i get time. and heres a few build pics based on my plans. one day ill finish it.


Thanks Al


Xwingprint2.jpg

Xwing3c-2.jpg

xwing3v-1.jpg
 
i dont have a very good wireframe shader right now, but here's a first set of orthos (i wasnt happy with how my nosecone looked so it's been stretched about 2/3"
View attachment 19659

This is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread! Could you post similar orthos of the wings/engines/cannons? Even a few work-in-progress images would be helpful and great to see. I'm doing a study (and re-build) of the Hasbro FX toy. Apparently it's generally accepted to have been based on the Icons X-Wing. It's been shortened a bit here and there, and drawings like these are most valuable to this study.

Anyone posting images might want to include a date/status stamp for reference and your name for credit. I have a feeling that you guys will be forever tweaking and adjusting your models and drawings!

Marcus

i just finished re-detailing my wings yesterday actually, but the engines are still not quite complete yet. i'll post up some orthos later when i get a chance
 
i just finished re-detailing my wings yesterday actually, but the engines are still not quite complete yet. i'll post up some orthos later when i get a chance

Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing those. Will be a great help.

Marcus, I also intend to create a set of blueprint drawings from the 3D models I end up with.

Hope you didn't think we were getting too far off course!

I've been loving all the posts! The work that you guys are doing is amazing! Won't be long before there are a few sets of plans around to use and to argue over!

Marcus, the Hasbro X-wing is nice, I have one too. Just in case you're not aware, though, it's not only been shortened here and there but is quite a bit smaller overall than an ILM X-wing. The intake parts are greatly smaller than real Saturn V kit parts, for example.

That's why I have been looking for plans. I'm not going to rebuild the entire thing, it would be fun but more work than I want to invest in it for now. Because so much has been tweaked and scaled down, I'm scratchbuilding or replacing select parts, trying to improve the overall impression of the model. Just replacing the droid strip is a vast improvement but does require some mods to the fuse as well as the strip itself. I've got a thread stared in the General Modeling forum, haven't posted an update for about a month, been gathering parts and reference material (like this thread!).

Just thought i would throw my drawing in the mix here. Not 100% accurate, but i did it in cad. one day ill do a 3d version when i get time. and heres a few build pics based on my plans. one day ill finish it.
Thanks Al

Looking good Al. Keep us posted on your efforts!

Marcus
 
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