All kit producers read
- Thread starter BrundelFly
- Start date
I wonder if there are any other ways to combat the situation... Like finding ways to produce kits for lower cost, refusing to ship to China ... In a way, society looks on kit producers as 'stealing' the intellectual property of the respective film makers. I can't agree with that. It's not like you guys are claiming YOU designed the ships. Won't most people buy from the original producers if they know it's better quality and straight from the source? Are a lot of buyers in the US, Europe, and Australia buying from these recasters, or is it mostly confined to China? I can't imagine the Bootleggers are making too much either... The end goal is to get these things out there for people who want them. It's their problem to decide whether what they are getting is worth their money or not. Hmmm... I know my thoughts are kind of random here... just wondering if there is a way to beat the situation... Or at least minimize its effect.
jtwaclawski
New Member
Frank, dumb question. With the economy the way it is, could that be why your sales are off? I know mine are. Plus the higher $ the kit.....
I do and have always done what Jason does. Determine the Break even point early on. X number of sales pays for the master and molds. Then you are clear. Plus everything has a tell. If I get recast, even if it's scanned and scaled that tell will be there.
Which reminds me, I want another Mk VII and an E-Wing. I'll be talking to you Frank.
I do and have always done what Jason does. Determine the Break even point early on. X number of sales pays for the master and molds. Then you are clear. Plus everything has a tell. If I get recast, even if it's scanned and scaled that tell will be there.
Which reminds me, I want another Mk VII and an E-Wing. I'll be talking to you Frank.
I doubt that would help much. You may state that you're not going to ship to China, but the guy who buys your kit may not have those qualms at all. Once the kit leaves your shop, it is out of your control. Period. Unless you are just casting for a small group of trusted friends, there is no way to guarantee that your work will not (eventually) wind up in the hands of a recaster/remasterer (if that's a word).
Case in point - I've got a Neisen Y-wing that I'd like to sell. It's one of those kits that I never started when I first got it, and now I realize I'm unlikely to get to it. I'd like to sell it, but Steve's a buddy and I'd rather not see his (and others') hard work ripped off. So, who do I sell it to? Do I have an interview process for potential buyers? I mean, certain individuals are known recasters, so it's easy to NOT sell to them. But how do I ensure that the guy I sell it to doesn't turn around and toss it over the fence to his good buddy with a 10 gallon jug of RTV? Do we make selling kits like an adoption process?
Gene
cosmic_x
Sr Member
I am not sure I understand this discussion 100% so pardon me for asking: have you guys seen any recast of concrete models or is this more a discussion based on precaution?
I mean, besides the x-wing I dont recall seen any, and as for the MF from Ani, well I am not an expert to say if it is a copy of the FM but in every kind of business there are risks.
Of course it sucks but you may start selling the kits only to people you know, returning customers or friends at least in the beginning till you reach BE.
I mean, besides the x-wing I dont recall seen any, and as for the MF from Ani, well I am not an expert to say if it is a copy of the FM but in every kind of business there are risks.
Of course it sucks but you may start selling the kits only to people you know, returning customers or friends at least in the beginning till you reach BE.
Im not here to beat up Asia..or any other Place.
There is just as sginificant amount of recsting here in US.
My point..is that the technology is taking it to another level.
Jefe,
Im sure thats it as well. Espeically for the Mark VII its not cheap.
However, I have offered discounted versions of it...at a price point almost HALF off..and didnt sell any either.
There is alot of merit in how Jason and you work. Limited run..and get out.
Stuff DOES continue to sell past that and you can make it more worth your time. Eventually all things end..and a definitive DONE point is nice to have.
Gene is right. You cant control where your stuff goes...even if you sell to your friends.
We had that happen to us, on a project that was EXTREMELY limited, and one of the guys sold His off despite the agreement not to.
Well, we mentioned a few items that have showed up here.
The info comes from a model collector/builder I have known for a couple of decades. He notices everything, and has yet to be wrong on anything in the industry. Doing a bit of my own research,...I have found some evidence to support what he is telling me.
This isnt anything thats happened since yesterday...its been ongoing for a while.
Lets review.
ICONS XWING soon...Hasbro makes a COOL Studio scale XWING.
MR makes a Communicator...followed by a cheap knock off....which again gets knocked off...three times over.
1/6 Scale SS Indy...Low and behold...a cheaper version.
1/4 Scale SS indy....DITTO.
ALIEN QUEEN we mentioned.
ANIGRAD. Need I say more.
And even our very own VIPER MARK IIB..was actually a version that was made from a casting of our MARK II. In other worlds..we resold a recast of our own model.
Bet ya didnt know that did ya?
Not a complete list...but...you get the idea.
MustangGTR1
Sr Member
I will also tell you from experience, just because they live in the U.S. dont mean it will stay here, or that the person is not buying for the third party.
On the Mark VII, I almost got one from you to match my MRK II, but I had gotten 2 of the 1/24 that were out before yours and didnt need a 3rd.
Kev
On the Mark VII, I almost got one from you to match my MRK II, but I had gotten 2 of the 1/24 that were out before yours and didnt need a 3rd.
Kev
Understandable.
Im pleased you are happy with that sitting next to the Mark II despite
it being so much smaller.
Definately a less expensive way to go.
Lancer
Sr Member
well one suggestion I'd put out.
limited runs. sell a set number. than put the mould (note british spelling of mould
) on hiatus for a while and I mean a good while. then you can always do another run, when demand is there.
example, the BSG 1:24 raptor that was done what? 2 years ago now.
people pop up trying to get one. it could be time to do another run of it.
by limiting the numbers each time, and as we are a small community, you'd have a little more control of who has it. now of course, that wouldn't stop said person selling it to an unknown who then recasts it, but its limiting that possibility a bit more.
yes it would be a bind if you miss out on getting it, but at least if there was another possibility of a run later, I think people would be happy with that.
limited runs. sell a set number. than put the mould (note british spelling of mould
) on hiatus for a while and I mean a good while. then you can always do another run, when demand is there.example, the BSG 1:24 raptor that was done what? 2 years ago now.
people pop up trying to get one. it could be time to do another run of it.
by limiting the numbers each time, and as we are a small community, you'd have a little more control of who has it. now of course, that wouldn't stop said person selling it to an unknown who then recasts it, but its limiting that possibility a bit more.
yes it would be a bind if you miss out on getting it, but at least if there was another possibility of a run later, I think people would be happy with that.
jtwaclawski
New Member
Bad-Azz will have a 1/24th scale ASSULT Raptor some time this year cut from the original files. If you want one of Jesse's Raptors, I have one I'm thinking of putting up on Ebay soon.
I personally don't do Limited Runs because of the sales that come afterward and over time. It's easier to cast the orders as they come in after the inital run. But I do keep them going. The trick is to get your investment back quick.
Frank, did you get my email?
I personally don't do Limited Runs because of the sales that come afterward and over time. It's easier to cast the orders as they come in after the inital run. But I do keep them going. The trick is to get your investment back quick.
Frank, did you get my email?
I hate to say it, but I don't think there is an easy solution to this situation. Technology will keep progressing. And I don't think you can outrun technology in a footrace. You might be able to dodge it by running in a zig-zag, but in the end, it will (eventually) catch up with you.
Maybe the only solution for this is a change in attitude. This all started out as a hobby - to see if we could duplicate what we all saw (and coveted) as kids on the big screen. We proved that it was possible, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a competition. Who can find the most original parts. Who can make the best castings. Most of this was done with a spirit of community. But I've also witnessed some downright nasty fights over this stuff. And I've had some people even tell me that the "stakes are high" because large amounts of money are involved. Really? I thought this was a hobby. I've talked with many of the guys who produce kits, and I always come away with two thoughts - How incredibly talented and clever they are for reverse engineering all this stuff and producing a stunning product, and, why the hell, after all the drama that is usually involved, do they keep doing it? Like Jason said, in the end, if you don't lose money, you make $2.00/hr.
Look, my kit buying has dropped off precipitously over the past couple of years. I'm running out of room and, quite frankly, time to build everything. And I've never actually produced a kit myself. You could say that I don't have a dog in this fight, and I guess that I don't. But I do consider myself part of the support system, and I don't want to see any ill befall those that I've come to respect over the years.
Gene
Maybe the only solution for this is a change in attitude. This all started out as a hobby - to see if we could duplicate what we all saw (and coveted) as kids on the big screen. We proved that it was possible, but somewhere along the way, it turned into a competition. Who can find the most original parts. Who can make the best castings. Most of this was done with a spirit of community. But I've also witnessed some downright nasty fights over this stuff. And I've had some people even tell me that the "stakes are high" because large amounts of money are involved. Really? I thought this was a hobby. I've talked with many of the guys who produce kits, and I always come away with two thoughts - How incredibly talented and clever they are for reverse engineering all this stuff and producing a stunning product, and, why the hell, after all the drama that is usually involved, do they keep doing it? Like Jason said, in the end, if you don't lose money, you make $2.00/hr.
Look, my kit buying has dropped off precipitously over the past couple of years. I'm running out of room and, quite frankly, time to build everything. And I've never actually produced a kit myself. You could say that I don't have a dog in this fight, and I guess that I don't. But I do consider myself part of the support system, and I don't want to see any ill befall those that I've come to respect over the years.
Gene
ONEYE
Sr Member
This isn't news, this has been going on for years. Is this a new revelation to you? :confused
My solution would be low numbers to known people with a buyback option. The buyer will always have the option of selling it back for what he paid. If it is an 'in demand' kit and the numbers were truly limited, there will always be a waiting list.
Other than that, price the run on the high side and make the money on the first run then walk away.
Nothing bugs me more than getting harassed by scum on the streets of Hong Kong.."copy watch?....gucci bag?" I had no idea that it had reached the global level.
So the Anigrad models are scanned ripoffs? Ill add them to my bad list.
Other than that, price the run on the high side and make the money on the first run then walk away.
Nothing bugs me more than getting harassed by scum on the streets of Hong Kong.."copy watch?....gucci bag?" I had no idea that it had reached the global level.
So the Anigrad models are scanned ripoffs? Ill add them to my bad list.
Colin Droidmilk
Sr Member
The Anigrad falcon has gotta be ripped from FM. Why else does it have the precise same mandible foul-up?
Alrighty then. I never herd of them before today.
This has been happening for decades in corporate America. Millions spent on research and development and as soon as a new product is brought to marker it is bought up by China and Korea, reverse engineered and then produced and priced to undercut the original manufacturer.
I also know Sideshow has been struggling with this same issue lately... so much so that they are taking a serious look at places like the RPF as a SOURCE for this kind of recasting!
Really sucks.
Now that is kinda funny... if it weren't that sad... More "first generation" (I was going to say original but hey we all are copying somthing else somewhere) stuff has come out of this board then just about anywhere I can think of...
Jedi Dade
