Re: Star Wars Episode VII
I don't disagree with you guys in principal, but what I'm saying is it doesn't HAVE to go that way. You say that including the original characters invites the writers to repeat beats from those movies, and to an extent that's true, but I get the impression from Kasdan interviews that he understands the dangers of this and can figure out a way to avoid these things.
I absolutely agree that the presence of OT characters doesn't automatically mean "We're gonna go dark," or "we're gonna just repeat the same old stuff." I'm just saying that I think the temptation grows when you have more of the OT's fingerprints on the new films. I do think there needs to be a connection (You don't get "Episode VII" without Episodes I-IV...), but I'm saying that I think the impulse to be far more self-referential is higher the more we see of the OT in the new setting.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'll admit that I'm a sourpuss when it comes to evaluating Hollywood in the aggregate.
You mention the Thrawn trilogy and how it felt fresh and new; well those books saw the return of ALL of the major players from the OT AND introduces new characters and balances out their roles, proving that it is possible to do it.
Exactly. I fully agree. It IS possible to do. But the difference with the Thrawn books and the new films is that the Thrawn books were just silly little books about a time-period that nobody ever expected to visit on film -- namely the Post-ROTJ era. As a result, they felt none of the pressures -- good and bad -- to produce the way a film feels. You also had far, far fewer chefs making the soup. With film? Different story entirely. There's a ton of pressure and a ton of influences dragging the film in a variety of directions.
Consider the following:
If I'm writing a Star Wars novel, do I need to include any of the OT characters? Answer: No, not really. OT settings, maybe, or OT-related/Post-ROTJ settings, but even then, I can do all manner of things.
On the other hand, if I'm part of the production team of a Star Wars movie, I guarantee you there are several suits saying "Wait. You're not including Luke? Where's Luke? Luke is Star Wars. And so is Han Solo. And [insert OT characters, even dead ones, here]. Put them in. They have to be in." I tend to think that the people pulling the strings are either as myopic and uninspired as the absolute worst fanfic writers, content to basically regurgitate the same old stuff, or they cynically assume that's what the public wants, so they'll give it to 'em to make a buck. I'm not sure which is the real culprit, though: cynicism or incompetence.
Nobody that I know of is suggesting that the OT characters should be the main players in the new movies, and I doubt they will (with the exception of ep VII, if the rumors are true), but to say that having them can only be a detriment to the new stories is a bit over-dramatic, imo.
You may not, but I've seen discussions about petitions to have Lando be in the film. I mean...really? Have these people seen Billy Dee Williams in the last 10 years? He doesn't look like Lando any more, I can tell you that much. My point there is that these people do exist, even if we may not know them personally. Everyone's got their favorite characters, and plenty of them want to see those characters in the new films.
All that said, I'm not suggesting having them = detriment. I'm saying having them =
increased chances of detriment (but no guarantee either way), and that having them != necessary for a good story. I suspect the films would be better stories if the OT characters didn't appear at all or were only there in the most tangential sense. But I'm in the extreme minority there, I suspect. People want them in SOME capacity. That opens the door to how far things go with the OT-carryover in to the new films.
I mean, look at the rumors re: Palpatine. Some folks instantly think "clone," others think "force ghost," and others think "holocron." There's really only one part in there that I can see not being crappy, and that'd be the Holocron idea. But these are the things people come up with when you say "Let's put Palpatine in the new one." I guess I just don't really trust Hollywood to not do that and then stick him in as a force ghost or whatever, when it's really not necessary to include him at all.
