Tron Legacy Deluxe Identity Disc mods?

Here's a very good source for Makototsai style LEDs - I've bought plenty of things from them to create sabers.

Makototsai Style

Also the forum there has information on building led ladders for saber blades so taking that info and applying it here would work.

whether one does led, el wire or other lighting, you'll have to take into consideration the amount or current and power draw necessary by the light source and also what is provided by the power source.

i think the reason why the 6' el wire wasn't as bright is because the power inverter was only designed for a specific power output range. the longer wire you use, the more demand it will have to output the same amount of light because the longer the wire, there'll also be more resistance inherent by the longer surface area to cover. so, there is more surface area that needs current. the bigger the current the better the flow of electrons at a greater distance.

power = current x voltage

so, while the voltage might have been the same, using the same inverter might have kept the current around the same levels. if one can boost the current or voltage without frying the circuit, you would have enough power to light up the entire el wire. -or, use a different inverter altogether.

replacing the leds would need the same consideration for current requirements and available current. super bright leds also tend to get hot, so make sure that it doesn't melt the blue rubber housing or surrounding plastic. so consider that just bright enough rather than the brightest you can find might be a better choice.

(edited to add: plus, bigger current draw means the batteries might drain faster.)

cannibal869:
the induction idea i just threw out there in case someone has the knowledge and resources to do it, and would like to do it. i agree it would be uber cool.

Well, some bad news on this side - I tested my EL wire tonight and got pretty much the same results as torsoboy. The white EL wire (I had the high bright 2.5mm white wire and 2AA inverter which was supposed to be able to drive 1-15 ft), was just not as bright as I'd hoped. The results were slightly better with a shorter wire and better yet with a single trustfire Li-Ion rechargeable (3.7V as opposed to 3V (2 AA batteries)). I was even thinking of using foil tape (the kind you use to help seal up your vent ducts in the attic) to act as a reflective surface to really direct the maximum amount of light to where I wanted it to go.

Problem #1: the EL inverter is just too darn big to fit in the tron disc.

So that coupled with the underwhelming brightness leads me to come to the same conclusion as torsoboy - LEDs will probably work better for the desired results.

That said, I also looked at the available space inside the disc - I think 5mm LEDs will likely be too large and bulky to attempt to do a Makototsai style LED ladder. I'm going to see if I can find some surface mount SMD "strips" that can be used instead.

Next up, I'm going to try and use an MR lightsaber or perhaps Hyperdyne LED driver board to power the LEDs. This has two benefits - it can act as a stand alone driver, and it also enables sequential lighting up of the disc. Using a lighthound PCB, we may even be able to use the existing momentary switch to turn the LEDs on and off (although this really only has utility if we switch the tron sound to the impact setting).

Anyway, I'm going to do some more hunting around and experimenting. I'll post up more results as they come.

-C

edit: I'll be using an MR board since it's the most cost effective solution for now. Also I will try 3mm wide angle LEDs first since most of the SMD strips I could find are rated for 12V (this could probably be adjusted by fiddling with some of the resistors, but I have a feeling building my own 3mm ladders will be faster and more effective). Working with individual 3mm plcc2 SMDs is not my idea of fun either...

edit #2: here is the best tutorial I've found for DIY LED ladder building:
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=13487.0
http://www.fx-sabers.com/forum/index.php?topic=13567.0

Man, that MR Makototsai style LED setup looks like it'd be perfect for the outer ring. And it looks like it would work with a more static approach (all on, all off) if you didn't want to go with the ladder setup.

I know we all want it to light up in succession since that's what it did in that first Tron Legacy visual effects trailer, but the recent trailers don't even show it lighting up succession style. More recent footage just kind of show it "bursting" on all at once.

Recalling the image blackfeathers posted...



... I wonder how easy it'd be to set up two separate strings. Please note the light pattern on the outer ring. I'm not saying this is the actual setup, but it looks like a similar setup would be a "3 on, 1 off" kind of pattern. So if you set it up with LEDs, you'd have three LEDs on, then on LED off, and repeat that all the way around.

So I'm wondering here if - in order to achieve the "burst on" effect - if you could make it so you have two separate strings: one string has sets of three LEDs setup to all turn on at once and stay on, and the other string would have single LEDs setup in the spaces between the sets of three to turn on momentarily at the same time the other string turns on, but then turns off a moment later. That way, momentarily, all of them are on and then every 4th LED turns off. If you use super bright LEDs, I would think that you could get a decent-enough "burst on" effect.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone that doesn't know how to actually set this stuff up, so it may not even be feasible.

Thoughts?

torsoboy said:

Man, that MR Makototsai style LED setup looks like it'd be perfect for the outer ring. And it looks like it would work with a more static approach (all on, all off) if you didn't want to go with the ladder setup.

I know we all want it to light up in succession since that's what it did in that first Tron Legacy visual effects trailer, but the recent trailers don't even show it lighting up succession style. More recent footage just kind of show it "bursting" on all at once.

Recalling the image blackfeathers posted...

... I wonder how easy it'd be to set up two separate strings. Please note the light pattern on the outer ring. I'm not saying this is the actual setup, but it looks like a similar setup would be a "3 on, 1 off" kind of pattern. So if you set it up with LEDs, you'd have three LEDs on, then on LED off, and repeat that all the way around.

So I'm wondering here if - in order to achieve the "burst on" effect - if you could make it so you have two separate strings: one string has sets of three LEDs setup to all turn on at once and stay on, and the other string would have single LEDs setup in the spaces between the sets of three to turn on momentarily at the same time the other string turns on, but then turns off a moment later. That way, momentarily, all of them are on and then every 4th LED turns off. If you use super bright LEDs, I would think that you could get a decent-enough "burst on" effect.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone that doesn't know how to actually set this stuff up, so it may not even be feasible.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Ahh yes, totally doable. How? Remember there are stock LEDs that are attached to the Tron board - use those as your "4th" LEDs. Meaning you just plan the rest of your design around that. If I recall correctly, the LEDs all light up when you first activate the board - and also when you have it on the impact setting and you smack the edge.

so... ladder then leave a space for the TRON LED, then more ladder, leave another space for the next TRON LED, then ladder etc...

Might be a cool effect, although I'd have to go and look at exactly what happens on each setting. Could make a nice "flash on clash" effect.

As for the startup sequencing effect, I think it'll look kinda cool if we can get it to work. I've already got an MR board at home and I'm just waiting for some LEDs to come in so I'll get started once everything is here.

-C

Hey guys, I'm starting my disc mod tonight! Made a few gifs I thought might be helpful:

cannibal869 said:

Ahh yes, totally doable. How? Remember there are stock LEDs that are attached to the Tron board - use those as your "4th" LEDs. Meaning you just plan the rest of your design around that. If I recall correctly, the LEDs all light up when you first activate the board - and also when you have it on the impact setting and you smack the edge.

Click to expand...

if you want to reuse some of the toy electronics, the open solder points where i injected the power can also be used to add 8 more leds. the catch is that the leds would be paired up with the ones already soldered to the board and require its own separate resistor, so they would light up at the same time. they might be dimmer because they would be both drawing power simultaneously.

also, if one was able to solder power wires each with an inline diode and leds (with their respective resistors) to those solder points, one could in theory make the lights slightly brighter than stock and flash in a pattern. adding a diode to the power wires and boosting the battery would preserve the existing toy light pattern since the wires would carry the voltage only in one direction and have more power potential to drive the leds. the diode-ed power would be used for the solid light function.


soulintertia:
thanks for the reference gifs :thumbsup

blackfeathers said:

if you want to reuse some of the toy electronics, the open solder points where i injected the power can also be used to add 8 more leds. the catch is that the leds would be paired up with the ones already soldered to the board and require its own separate resistor, so they would light up at the same time. they might be dimmer because they would be both drawing power simultaneously.

also, if one was able to solder power wires each with an inline diode and leds (with their respective resistors) to those solder points, one could in theory make the lights slightly brighter than stock and flash in a pattern. adding a diode to the power wires and boosting the battery would preserve the existing toy light pattern since the wires would carry the voltage only in one direction and have more power potential to drive the leds. the diode-ed power would be used for the solid light function.


soulintertia:
thanks for the reference gifs :thumbsup

Click to expand...

Ditto the reference gifs - SUPER helpful thanks!!!

Dude, I have no idea what the heck you just said about the diodes :confused, but hey, I'm just a lowly sabersmith ) (Actually, I *think* I kinda get it, but it'll probably take a little time for me to wrap my brain around it... similar effect can probably be had by using a PNP transistor, no?)

On a separate note, it's sort of interesting how when the disc is mounted, only the center "C" or "U" is lit up - i.e. the blade portion of the disc is not lit up yet. I'm thinking maybe connect the center LEDs just to the kill switch so that it's run on a separate circuit from everything else. When the kill key is removed / master power switch is activated, then the inner ring will light up constantly. Also, that would allow true separation of the MR board LEDs functionality from everything else. Man.. now just to get enough battery power in there... gonna need a lot of mAH...

-C

cannibal869 said:

Ditto the reference gifs - SUPER helpful thanks!!!

Dude, I have no idea what the heck you just said about the diodes :confused, but hey, I'm just a lowly sabersmith ) (Actually, I *think* I kinda get it, but it'll probably take a little time for me to wrap my brain around it... similar effect can probably be had by using a PNP transistor, no?)

-C

Click to expand...

there's many types of diodes -from leds(light emitting diodes) to zeners... some used for power surge protection, voltage multipliers, etc. but, basically i'm talking about controlling the direction of voltage one way for the modded/soldered additions. certain diodes allow the flow of electrons to flow only in one direction (in the real world there's some minor reverse voltage/leakage, but that's beside the point).

the goal of this is so that when it's in toy mode, the flashing patterns are preserved -so they won't all light up at the same time. otherwise, the mod i did lights them up at the same time because all the points are soldered to the same ground jumper to the same power source. one would need to find the right kind of diode with the proper specs for this to regulate the right amount of voltage and current to the specific leds or another alternative to this. again, the goal is voltage separation to each led in order to preserve the light patterns.

pnp transistors have something that behaves like a diode in them. from what i understand as bipolar pnp transistors, it affects current and is more involved. to me it gets more complex because you're dealing with three pathways instead of two -one with a small current(base) affecting the other two with a larger current (emitter and collector). it is feasible but one has to consider how to design the circuit to work.

hope this clears it up some?

Anyone been able to remove the inner "C" ring without damage?

Soulinertia said:

Anyone been able to remove the inner "C" ring without damage?

Click to expand...

Yes, I was able to push it out from underneath with a flat head screwdriver, it's held in place by little tabs on the side. These are located where the shell c- ring section is cut away.

I used a soft plastic ruler to wedge the section I'd pried open from snapping back in place.

Just be careful near the two ends as the plastic is very thin and weak at the points the leds go in.

just a small recap and research update:

my current tron disc mods result in all the leds lighting up at the same time instead of flashing patterns by the toy. it's a tradeoff for keeping all the lights lit continuously, having it powered by usb, and also incorporating data storage.

the light pattern, i think, is still possible but requires more parts and/or a change somewhere. this goes against my initial goal of keeping it at this existing level of complexity without further complications of the existing circuitboard.

so, i've looked into simple components first as opposed to integrated circuits and transistors.

in regards to various diode specs, i haven't found the right one and might be the wrong route to take. this is because they are inefficient when it comes to battery power. there is a power draw(watts or milliwatts) when the battery mod mode circuit is enabled, resulting in further battery drain. in usb mode it's fine, but not in battery mod mode.

and, i looked into resistors for each led pathway as a simple offset. at the moment, the tradeoffs, however, seem to be:

-the lights will be dimmer especially in battery mod mode
-will be more sensitive to weaker batteries (fresh batteries would be more mandatory)
-individual potentiometers aren't practical or feasible

in my findings of battery power mod mode and switching to toy mode with flashing pattern, adding an additional resistor for each led ranges around 10 to 60 ohms but fluctuates depending on factors such as battery strength and current. so, considering all the above, it's unacceptable.

one might be able to go the transistor route and garner better efficiency. the goal of separating the led pathways is to preserve the light pattern while maintaining all the benefits of the previous mods. again, the existing battery mod creates a shortcircuit.

this might mean going back to my old knight rider days and modifying an led light chaser circuit -which i am refraining from doing at the moment since it's been a long time. but, if anybody knows how to implement a transistor or ic to allow voltage separation for each of the 8 leds in a simple, diy manner with the limited space we're given, i'm all ears.

i'm happy with my existing mod, but it appears that integrated circuits on a separate circuitboard might be the way to go for flashing patterns. in theory, you might be able to make your own custom light pattern like knight rider/cylon chasing lights and other flash patterns. so, to get better flexibility in functionality will require some rewiring and adding a separate circuitboard for added functionality.

perhaps all our mods are culminating to:
1. -a new circuitboard add-on, and
2. -with brighter/more leds?

Hi all,

having good results and with the 3mm flat wide angle LEDs.
Here's a pic of the inner ring lit up (no flash, taken with my cell phone - sorry for the graininess)



And yes, it really is that bright! :cool I think there are 20 LEDs in the back there. I have them mounted perpendicular to the inside circumference of the inner ring, pointed outwards so that they're shining light towards the outer circumference.

I'm really pleased with the effect, cause you can also see some of the "wavy" difference in brightness like in the movie stills as posted above.
I've got most of the other stuff all set up and ready to go too... The ignition sequence of the outer ring is pretty cool actually. I'll post more pics once I get everything put together and closed up - don't worry I've taken pics of each step so you'll be able to see what I did inside too. THe outer ring will have 56 LEDs....

I've realized that I'll need smaller li-ion batteries so I'm going to go with the AAA size. Probably will end up putting 4 of them in there.

-C

cannibal869 said:

Hi all,

having good results and with the 3mm flat wide angle LEDs.
Here's a pic of the inner ring lit up (no flash, taken with my cell phone - sorry for the graininess)

And yes, it really is that bright! :cool I think there are 20 LEDs in the back there. I have them mounted perpendicular to the inside circumference of the inner ring, pointed outwards so that they're shining light towards the outer circumference.

I'm really pleased with the effect, cause you can also see some of the "wavy" difference in brightness like in the movie stills as posted above.
I've got most of the other stuff all set up and ready to go too... The ignition sequence of the outer ring is pretty cool actually. I'll post more pics once I get everything put together and closed up - don't worry I've taken pics of each step so you'll be able to see what I did inside too. THe outer ring will have 56 LEDs....

I've realized that I'll need smaller li-ion batteries so I'm going to go with the AAA size. Probably will end up putting 4 of them in there.

-C

Click to expand...

sweet! that's great news. what circuitboard/driver did you end up using to drive all the leds with the ignition sequence? looking forward to your info! :thumbsup

Thanks guys!

I used a spare MR Vader board that I had lying around.
The ignition sequence is pretty cool... this coming from a sabersmith that usually only makes 3 or 5watt LED sabers (this is the first successful LED ladder-type light that I've ever made). I'm waiting for some JB weld to dry in a switch, but I'll post up pics and a video tonight once the JB sets.

I have basically 3 circuits going at the same time -
so there is a master kill key/recharge port. When you remove the kill key, the inner ring lights up (since I was planning on using this in a costume and it seems like when the disc is mounted on the back of the costume, only the inner ring is lit up). I'm estimating that the inner ring will eat up about 400 mA per hour. Then when you take it off to use the ring, you turn on the MR board switch, and the outer ring lights up in an ignition sequence. This particular build doesn't have the "burst" ignition - rather, it lights up around the ring like in the original teaser trailer. The third circuit is the OEM Tron soundboard. I already removed all the stock LEDs, so maybe I'll leave it in the next version to give an interesting effect.

I'm waiting for some 10440 Li-ion batteries to come in the mail... that's the last step, then I can really close up everything and everything will be internal. I'll be using 4 of these batteries, all wired in parallel, so it *should* function like a 3.7V 2000mA pack. I'll do a demo video tonight with a sample (external) battery.

-C

edit: movie link here:
http://s882.photobucket.com/albums/ac29/cannibal869/TRON%20LEGACY%20MODS/?action=view&current=MVI_3903.mp4

Is there any conceivable way to make the disk "accurate" in the -white- disk aspect? that has to be the one thing that bothers me the most about the disk. Sam is illuminated white, and yet all the toys/prop reps are blue. doesn't make sense to me. I understand that the lenses are blue, but im wondering if you can sand them to be whiter if used with brighter white led's.

I'm working on casting new pieces in clear rather than blue

Soulinertia said:

I'm working on casting new pieces in clear rather than blue

Click to expand...

Yes, casting would be the only way to really make the disc white rather than blue. It doesn't help that the blue outer ring is darker in coloration than the inner disc.

cannibal869 said:

Yes, casting would be the only way to really make the disc white rather than blue. It doesn't help that the blue outer ring is darker in coloration than the inner disc.

Click to expand...

while on the topic of casting, how feasible would it be to cast two hero sides of the toy and put that together? one can then go from there with new circuitry and have it lit on both sides. customise your own colours, lights, and other functions.

Soulinertia said:

I'm working on casting new pieces in clear rather than blue

Click to expand...

:love

I think I'm going gut the disk, and direct drive some brighter white led's, and just rig a simple latching switch on the underside. I hoping it will fit inside the molding made on the UD Rep jacket.