Vintage ESB Saber Build + Question About the Wampa Cave Stunt

schrodinger555

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hey everyone!

I got a nice non patent folmer in a few weeks ago and realized under closer inspection that it had the perfect stamp alignment for the Wampa Cave scene. Here it is with a spare red button, an old Sloth clamp card I had, and some WW tape.
IMG_0362.JPG



I did some cursory digging and found a nice Otis board from 1975 that I trimmed to make a clamp card. I used a bunch of different screenshots as reference for the spacing of the clamp card. I'll attach some photos of the dimensions here too, in case someone else gets an Otis board and needs some guidance on how to trim it. The most important thing is making sure the transition from the gold connectors to the soldered traces is in the right spot. I also got a Linhof clip thanks to Drew Baker and found a nice D ring on a Vietnam era bag from a local Army/Navy surplus. I harvested some properly sized screws from a very old oscilloscope and they're M3, so I'll likely thread them into the grips when they arrive. The pictured grips are spares from previous projects.
IMG_0472.JPG

IMG_0519.JPG
IMG_0520.JPG



And here is the finished card in the clamp. Looks pretty good I'd say!
IMG_0522.JPG




I'm now waiting on some old rivets to come in, and will then drill out the Linhof clip, and get it ready to attach to the flash. The pictured rivets are appropriately old, but have steel bodies, and I don't want to risk deforming the clip or graflex bottom. Plus the original appears to have had aluminum rivets! Once those are in if they are right I'll have 50 of them, and anyone who'd like to get a set can send me a message and I'll oblige!
IMG_0500.JPG
IMG_0501.JPG


And a shot showing the Wampa Cave alignment.
IMG_0502.JPG







So now I have some questions I think those more knowledgable may be able to help with:

In the Wampa Cave scene we see the classic shot of the saber in the snow, but when it is pulled out the saber is un bladed. Only when the scene cuts do you see the bladed stunt which Luke uses to cut himself free. I don't have any high resolution reference of this particular scene outside of what is commonly available, but was wondering how we're sure the saber in the snow is the same as the bladed one? I can't see any of the screws that are seen on other stunts to hold the blades in when the saber is pulled out of the snow, but part of that may be due to the low quality files.

When he raises the saber above his head I'd imagine with a higher resolution image we could see whether the grip right in front of the kobold, the one in line with the clamp, is actually in the same exact position. I'd imagine this would give a clear idea of whether its the same saber or not. Before he begins to try and pull the saber towards him there's a shot with it lying in the snow almost on its side, and you can see pretty much everything but the top red button. It appears to not have a blade in that part of the scene either.

Anyway just some food for thought, hope you guys enjoy!

new-york-lightsaber-empire-770x508.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-04-24 at 12.44.23 PM.png


Screen Shot 2021-04-24 at 12.44.36 PM.png


Screen Shot 2021-04-24 at 12.59.05 PM.png
 
schrodinger555, great build thread and congratulations on hunting these parts! As many times as I read SethS' Lightsaber Guidebook, the ESB stunt section is still challenging to master the nuances of each version and in which scene each was used.

As a follow-up question for this Wampa stunt saber discussion, which style red buttons were used...one short and one long knurl or two long knurls?

I can't tell from the available BTS photos or screen caps.
 
Looks great!

wondering how we're sure the saber in the snow is the same as the bladed one?

I've read that BTS photo(s?) showed someone reaching under the snow to wiggle the handle by the blade, and that's how we can deduce that the Wampa Cave saber with the revealed, legible stamping is the short-bladed stunt saber. I don't know if this is that photo, but it's the closest I have to it:

SKYW_ESB_STUNT_SHORTBLADED_02 - Copy.jpg


(No idea who the source for the photo is. I got it through Seth's Lightsaber Gallery, so I presume it's publicly available?)

The other photos of the short bladed saber in that collection -- like this one from scottjua -- don't show anything like the big side screws we see on the MoM Vader saber/Graflex stunt:

SKYW_ESB_STUNT_SHORTBLADED_03.jpg


I don't know that the saber we see in the other postion -- more on the snow, rather than plunged into it -- would have been the same one. It'd probably be easier for that shot for it to be a different prop. (I don't think any one is saying there was only one prop used in the Wampa cave, so much as, "hey, turns out the saber with the stamping we can read was a short-bladed stunt, not a hero prop. How about that.")

Anyway, I don't know if any of that's new to you, but that's what I've got. I'd certainly be keen to know more, if there's other info people can share!
 
I agree

Basically, I'm pretty sure Mark threw a hilt at the snow and they played that backwards for the force grab. So, there most likely was a bladed one (seen above) and a hilt that we have no good shots of. The option is still out there that they found a way to clip the blade to the hilt but I've found that any stability comes from some sort of a tang at least an inch long.


Looking at this thing I think we can see the tang exposed above the bulb ring, which is very interesting. My guess is the workshop cut the antenna, glued a tang in and then gave it to someone else, who found a way to install it in a flash handle. I'm stumped though. There IS a full ESB stunt without visible bolts also so you can't rule out a core
ScottJWampa.jpeg
 
Yes! This is exactly what I was hoping from this thread. I agree the snow pull shot looks like he just threw a hilt into the snow. It's tough though because the bladed stunt that gets jiggled appears to be a different saber or simply has the rod removed. When you watch the scene it cuts right when the saber flies towards his hand, and it's impossible to see what the stamping or grips look like when that happens.


Drew I think you're right! The one with the visible stamping seems like it must be the short bladed stunt. Although one of the difficulties is that it's accepted that the dagobah short bladed stunt is the same saber, and the black section in the blade that Tom showed isn't visible. That makes me think it was threaded.

I think this makes the most sense as the blade could easily be removed after the 'jiggling' shot to let it fall into the snow. Having it threaded into the guts of the graflex ala Elstree ANH is pretty sturdy and easy to do. That could mean that one of the hero sabers could just be the stunt with the threaded rod removed? I know this is all kind of useless conjecture without some definitive photo or video evidence, but it just struck me as odd that there are definitely either two different sabers used in that scene or the blade was just removable.
I agree

Basically, I'm pretty sure Mark threw a hilt at the snow and they played that backwards for the force grab. So, there most likely was a bladed one (seen above) and a hilt that we have no good shots of. The option is still out there that they found a way to clip the blade to the hilt but I've found that any stability comes from some sort of a tang at least an inch long.


Looking at this thing I think we can see the tang exposed above the bulb ring, which is very interesting. My guess is the workshop cut the antenna, glued a tang in and then gave it to someone else, who found a way to install it in a flash handle. I'm stumped though. There IS a full ESB stunt without visible bolts also so you can't rule out a core
View attachment 1450344
 
So the grips arrived and I set to trimming and fitting them to the flash this weekend.


I used the miter saw to mark the outsides of the channels in the grips, and then used the saw to cut every half mm or so in between, this meant I could go in with a razor blade and just cut most of the webbing away. After that I masked the grips with some blue tape and used a file to smooth the notch out.
IMG_0525.JPG


I used a scribe to indent the middle of the space in the notch, and a 2.5mm drill bit in a hand drill to make the holes for the screws.
IMG_0533.JPG


Ready for paint!
IMG_0534.JPG


On the left is the gloss after drying, and on the right is the surface finish after some very careful scotchbrite application.
IMG_0539.JPG


And after some 2 part epoxy!
IMG_0542.JPG


Gonna drill the bottom tomorrow in preparation for the rivets and cut the screw heads to size before gluing them in place.
IMG_0543.JPG




Last but not least, had a spot of trouble too! I assembled the saber after gluing to get a feel for it, and the clamp card just fell out. It wasn't super tight to begin with, but was never loose. I replaced it, and when I closed the clamp the entire thing exploded and the lever broke! The actual lever and rivet are fine, but the threaded portion is toast. So I suppose I'll be looking for a replacement lever. If anyone has a folmer lever they'd be willing to part with please let me know!
IMG_0544.JPG
 
Having watched many episodes of the BBC The Repair Shop ... I suppose that screw part could be repaired by means of welding, drilling a new hole and then removing the rivet of the lever part, attaching the lever back on to the screw part with either a new rivet or some clever welding of the vintage rivet as well? Calling Halliwax to the rescue ... if you feel overwhelmed Mili ;)

Great job on the T-tracks ... just may I inquire why you omitted making a glue channel on the bottom?

T-track-05.jpg


Chaïm
 
So the grips arrived and I set to trimming and fitting them to the flash this weekend.


I used the miter saw to mark the outsides of the channels in the grips, and then used the saw to cut every half mm or so in between, this meant I could go in with a razor blade and just cut most of the webbing away. After that I masked the grips with some blue tape and used a file to smooth the notch out.
View attachment 1450710

I used a scribe to indent the middle of the space in the notch, and a 2.5mm drill bit in a hand drill to make the holes for the screws.
View attachment 1450711

Ready for paint!
View attachment 1450712

On the left is the gloss after drying, and on the right is the surface finish after some very careful scotchbrite application.
View attachment 1450713

And after some 2 part epoxy!
View attachment 1450714

Gonna drill the bottom tomorrow in preparation for the rivets and cut the screw heads to size before gluing them in place.
View attachment 1450715



Last but not least, had a spot of trouble too! I assembled the saber after gluing to get a feel for it, and the clamp card just fell out. It wasn't super tight to begin with, but was never loose. I replaced it, and when I closed the clamp the entire thing exploded and the lever broke! The actual lever and rivet are fine, but the threaded portion is toast. So I suppose I'll be looking for a replacement lever. If anyone has a folmer lever they'd be willing to part with please let me know!
View attachment 1450716
Really nice assembly man
 
Thanks! Chaim, I'm not sure really! I didn't think to do it, though I suppose I can just remove the grips and make the channels underneath if I want to! I have a few different ways I could fix the lever, though I've had a few offers to buy it for Ranch builds, so I suppose I could just sell it if I find a replacement! For now I'm just going to hold on till I find a replacement part and then see what is next!

Thanks Danny! I'm pretty pleased with it! I finished the rough assembly yesterday, just a regular red button and replacement clamp/lever to find now.

DA645B04-55EF-41F2-9AD3-15447718B66C.jpeg
5B07D4B3-99E5-4BBC-B63A-309618D62BEF.jpeg

72365FE3-4992-46E9-9305-152D83A464F0.jpeg

607596C3-B67C-46C3-B8B7-18E26DC3E797.jpeg
B0C3A228-7394-4738-AFDD-0088C9BC95FF.jpeg

47777C60-872D-4DE0-BC78-B74FCD8596F3.jpeg
 
Awesome build, schrodinger555! Celebrate your success on this one.

Like SethS said, the variations of Luke’s ESB sabers are countless. One of the ESB stunt sabers definitely had one short and one knurled red button, as pictured in the Lightsaber Guidebook and referenced as ESB STUNT A. You have that correct placement of each respective style of red button on your hilt’s current setup.
 
Thank you Chris! I appreciate it man :) And yes I agree, it seems there were so many variations that my current set up could be accurate to some scenes! For now I have my ANH and can swap a red button if I need it at least.

I'll attach a few more photos of the build, as I skipped over the rivets and screws a bit.

First was aligning the clip to the clamp and setting up my holes. A bit of double sided tape to hold the kobold in place, and a piece of aluminum inside the flash to support the disk, then a center punch to transfer the holes.
IMG_0548.JPG


Drilled out to accept the 5/32x3/8 rivets.
IMG_0549.JPG


In the background you can see the screw heads cut short ready to instal also.
IMG_0550.JPG


I wrapped a rubber band around the entire thing, and then pulled it aside as I dropped a dab of epoxy and the screw into each hole.
IMG_0552.JPG


Drilled and epoxied, ready for the riveting. I did end up finding vintage rivets that were the perfect length and didn't need shortening. My worry was if they were too long I'd have to trim them down to the right length, but this way the clip is secured very well, and the chassis I have in my ANH saber can fit in this one.
IMG_0553.JPG







And some finished shots! I borrowed a red button from my ANH and a lever from my telegraph while I wait for the replacement lever to come in.
IMG_2926.JPG


IMG_2927.JPG


IMG_2917.JPG


IMG_2920.JPG


IMG_2924.JPG


IMG_2929.JPG


IMG_2938.JPG
 
Back
Top