Question Terms of Service Question

Joe Campbell

Well-Known Member
I was unable to respond to the pm sent by the rpf staff.
If you folks would respond here, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks.

As an artist working for Lucasfilm, I'm concerned that the terms of service seem to indicate that if I post artwork done professionally for LFL (or for that matter, any other company) I'm granting the RPF permission to use that work for promotional purposes.

If that's indeed the case, I'm afraid that I'll have to end my ten year association with the RPF.

Can you please clarify?
 

Larry Young

Master Member
Can you please clarify?
Yeah, this is the bit that's giving me some pause, too:

5. LICENSE GRANTED TO THE DOMAIN
You grant the Domain the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you Transmit through the Service, for the purposes of displaying such information on the Domain's sites and for the promotion and marketing of the Domain's services.

I wouldn't stop participating in the community because I find it really very valuable and incredibly fun, but I couldn't continue to post up content from my publishing company because of the (admittedly remote) possibility the staff would modify, adapt, distribute, and publish content we have the contractual rights to and can't re-assign, even at a non-exclusive rights level.

Lawyers ruin everything. :)
 

cboath

Master Member
Sounds like it. However, hotlinking from another site could be a way around that. Hotlinking doesn't grant them the rights to anything on the other site..but if you're using the image uploader, it would.

It does say for the purposes of advertising though, not for resale. How much advertising does the site do?
 

Too Much Garlic

Master Member
Point 6. a., b., & c.3. of the user conduct will also be very difficult to abide by and enforce, as it rules against most everything we do here.
 

lingarn

Well-Known Member
Point 6. a., b., & c.3. of the user conduct will also be very difficult to abide by and enforce, as it rules against most everything we do here.
I noticed that too.

It seems like we have entire forums devoted to things we can't talk about, unless the Replica Costumes section is to be limited to Museum Replicas and Rubies.

Edit: Practically speaking, however, I think they can't address this point for the same reasons that they need the disclaimer in the first place.
 
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GKvfx

Sr Member
.......As an artist working for Lucasfilm, I'm concerned that the terms of service seem to indicate that if I post artwork done professionally for LFL (or for that matter, any other company) I'm granting the RPF permission to use that work for promotional purposes......
I would think that your NDA from LFL would prohibit you from posting anything done for them to the RPF, the RI, HobbyTalk - anywhere, really.

I'm under an NDA for the place that I work for, and as such, don't post any imagery that was generated for our clients. Hell, just last week we had images leak out (undetermined if it was on our side or the client's) and it inspired a round of "loose lips sink ships" warnings.

Gene

PS - it just adds to my feeling that anything posted to the internet will show up somewhere else and be used by someone else. If it's that secret, don't post. If you own the copyright to original artwork and want to enforce those rights, read the Terms Of Service closely. I suspect it's a non-issue for those of us that are in this as a hobby and don't try to make any money off our efforts, but yeah, I can see how others would want to mull it over.
 

letmebestormy

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
As a Lucas expat my perception of RPF TOS v. Lucas Contract is akin to bringing a photo of a knife to a gunfight. I wouldn't stress it. But hell, I never would have posted about posting art online! We had major paranoia in the SW era.

 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
To those concerned about #5 of the TOS... this isn't something new. You are already and have been under those terms for YEARS and YEARS. This is a pretty standard thing, much as it is with many sites and it has never once been an issue in the past, nor do we foresee it as being an issue in the future.

While our litigous world does require lawyers and legalese, we are all still people here and can talk to one another and none of us are looking to take advantage of any of the artists, here. If anyone has further questions on this particular issue, please feel free to PM me.
 

stormtrooperguy

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Can you clarify the distinction between uploading content to the site vs. hotlinking to content hosted elsewhere?

That could be a big deal for many people.
 

exoray

Master Member
Sounds like it needs more work.
Yep, you could probably wipe out 90%+ of the active members for ToS violations in regards to section 6 today...

And if the site and staff doesn't plan to enforce said points then why include them? A rule not enforced or selectively enforced is not a rule at all, it's simply a fall back excuse you can apply when nothing else works...

I had thought the forum was moving away from the catch all selectively applied and enforced rule set that has been the thorn of discontent for years here?

Seriously though the forum is devoted to breaking half if not more of the section 6 rules...

(a) violate or solicit the violation of any applicable local, state, national or international law;
Most of this site applies...

(b) infringe the rights of any third party, including but not limited to intellectual property rights and privacy or publicity rights;
Most of this sites applies...

(c) Transmit any Content that:

......

(2) consists of instructional information on illegal activities, including, but not limited to, hacking, cracking, and phreaking;
Any instructional information on making unlicensed prop replicas falls under that clause as written...

(3) violates or infringes in any way upon the proprietary rights of others, including, without limitation, copyrighted software, music, photographs, text, videos or artwork;
That sums up pretty much this entire sites content and existence...

Sorry guys but in my blunt and honest opinion I feel that you did a little too much copy and paste of that new ToS from somewhere else over actually writing one that is actually applicable to this site...
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Can you clarify the distinction between uploading content to the site vs. hotlinking to content hosted elsewhere?

That could be a big deal for many people.
Can you be more specific about your concern? If you are referring to cboath's post which implies hotlinking would circumvent #5 on the ToS... I don't know. That would be for a lawyer to decide and I am not one.

With that in mind, I will again point out that this is not a new rule, has been a rule for years and years and already applies to every member who has been here over 30 days... so we have all already "agreed" to this rule. It hasn't changed and has never been an issue in the past, but since it seems to be concerning people now, it seems to show that a lot of people either didn't read the ToS when they signed up or haven't read it as it has been updated over the years.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
For the sake of clarity... I am posting up the Old ToS #6 alongside the New ToS #6... just so you can reference the differences of the ToS under which you have been subject to for years compared to the ToS you will be subject to in 30 days...

For those of you who want a quick summary, there is virtually no difference... mostly in the spacing...

Old:

6. USER CONDUCT
You agree to not use the Service to:
(a) violate or solicit the violation of any applicable local, state, national or international law;
(b) infringe the rights of any third party, including but not limited to intellectual property rights and privacy or publicity rights;
(c) upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any Content that (1) is unlawful, threatening, abusive, tortious, defamatory, obscene, libelous, or invasive of another's privacy; (2) consists of instructional information on illegal activities, including, but not limited to, hacking, cracking, and phreaking; (3) violates or infringes in any way upon the proprietary rights of others, including, without limitation, copyrighted software, music, photographs, text, videos or artwork; (4) constitutes pornography, or sexual material of an obscene nature or that violates local, state or national laws; (5) is the private information of another such as their addresses, phone number, Social Security number or credit card number; (6) contains software viruses, trojan horses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment; or (7) you do not have a right to upload or post due to contractual or other legal obligation;
(d) impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Domain official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;
(e) forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any Content transmitted through the Service;
(f) interfere with or disrupt the Service, computer servers or boards accessible through the Service;
(g) disseminate off-topic messages on forums promoting any product, service, web site, board or venture, or promote boards on the Service through unsolicited electronic mail messages to third parties.


New:

6. USER CONDUCT
You agree to not use the Service to:

(a) violate or solicit the violation of any applicable local, state, national or international law;

(b) infringe the rights of any third party, including but not limited to intellectual property rights and privacy or publicity rights;

(c) Transmit any Content that:

(1) is unlawful, threatening, abusive, tortious, defamatory, obscene, libelous, or invasive of another's privacy;

(2) consists of instructional information on illegal activities, including, but not limited to, hacking, cracking, and phreaking;

(3) violates or infringes in any way upon the proprietary rights of others, including, without limitation, copyrighted software, music, photographs, text, videos or artwork;

(4) constitutes pornography, or sexual material of an obscene nature or that violates local, state or national laws;

(5) is the private information of another such as their addresses, phone number, Social Security number or credit card number;

(6) contains software viruses, Trojan horses or any other computer code, files or programs designed to interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment;

(7) you do not have a right to Transmit due to contractual or other legal obligation;

(d) impersonate any person or entity, including, but not limited to, a Domain official, forum leader, guide or host, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

(e) forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any
Content Transmitted through the Service;

(f) interfere with or disrupt the Service, computer servers or software accessible through the
Service;

(g) disseminate off-topic messages on forums promoting any product, service, web site, board or venture, or promote boards on the Service through unsolicited electronic mail messages to third parties.

If you do use the Service to commit any of the above, the Domain may, at its sole discretion, terminate your password, account (or any part of it) or ability to use the Service, and remove and discard any Content within the Service.
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
And just to be thorough, here is the old and new #5:

Old:

5. LICENSE GRANTED TO THE DOMAIN
You grant the Domain the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you post/upload/contribute to the Service, for the purposes of displaying such information on the Domain's sites and for the promotion and marketing of the Domain's services. However, the Domain will not resell, attempt to resell, or otherwise convey these rights to any third party.


New:

5. LICENSE GRANTED TO THE DOMAIN
You grant the Domain the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you Transmit through the Service, for the purposes of displaying such information on the Domain's sites and for the promotion and marketing of the Domain's services. However, the Domain will not resell, attempt to resell, or otherwise convey these rights to any third party.
 

exoray

Master Member
Can you be more specific about your concern? If you are referring to cboath's post which implies hotlinking would circumvent #5 on the ToS... I don't know. That would be for a lawyer to decide and I am not one.
Better yet why not simply make said clause less objectionable...

Change from this...
5. LICENSE GRANTED TO THE DOMAIN
You grant the Domain the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you Transmit through the Service, for the purposes of displaying such information on the Domain's sites and for the promotion and marketing of the Domain's services.
To this
5. LICENSE GRANTED TO THE DOMAIN
You grant the Domain the world-wide, royalty free and non-exclusive license to reproduce, modify, adapt, distribute and publish any Content you Transmit through the Service, that is deemed necessary for the normal operation, display and use of the Domain's services.
Now I left in modify, adapt as without it there can be no possible moderation of post content, and technically the attached image thumbnail feature would be in violation without the modify and adapt clause as well... I also removed the promotion and marketing use clause as I personally find it objectionable and unnecessary for a site like this... Basically if The RPF for some reason wants to use someone content for promotion and marketing, why not just asked them and make a mutual agreement for that content alone, it's a win win for both parties...

For some of the decade members, I would wager your point was true, Art.
Yep, the ToS has change so many times (mostly silent) over the years that many never knew anything about it's changes or content... So of course when the new one is rolled out with a mass PM forcing everyone to agree or leave you are going to raise eyebrows to it's content...
 

Art Andrews

Community Owner
Community Staff
Yep, the ToS has change so many times (mostly silent) over the years that many never knew anything about it's changes or content... So of course when the new one is rolled out with a mass PM forcing everyone to agree or leave you are going to raise eyebrows to it's content...
As usual, I can't/won't speak for past actions, but can only tell you that going forward we will let the members know of changes to the ToS, Privacy Statement or the MGL. We probably won't send out a mass PM every single time but we will ALWAYS at least put up a thread in the announcements section and there is a change date within the ToS itself that will be updated when changes are made.

And we don't mind a few raised eyebrows. As a member, you SHOULD know what you have agreed to and we understand if some people are a bit uncomfortable. What we don't want is anyone spreading confusion or acting as if there has been some massive change to the terms, when the truth is, there haven't been.
 
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