Take a look: Hoth Rebel Trooper Pistol analysis.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Costumes and Props' started by DrMaul, Oct 24, 2002.

  1. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    I recently came across these unpublished photos of a one-piece resin-cast blaster. Little is known of the prop in the photograph, but the story is convincing that it originated from Elstree Studios, probably around the time of ANH, but possibly ESB. No other pieces were photographed with this main piece...it is not known how long the barrel may have extended beyond the splined ring.

    The scope is clearly a singlepoint.

    The handle is of the same size and configuration as a Sterling submachine gun.

    The trigger/trigger-guard assembly is very similar to a AR-7 Explorer semi-automatic rifle.

    The combination of the latter 2 parts is vaguely reminiscent of the Hoth Rebel Troop <.-- BBCode Start -->pistol<.-- BBCode End -->, a variation of Ponda Baba's Blaster, but I am not sure if these have been documented as having had singlepoint scopes.

    Does anybody want to correct me, or hazard a further guess as to its heritage??

    [attachmentid=1577]

    [attachmentid=1578]
     
  2. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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  3. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    Got excited, didn't read the whole post.
    You got it right, see the pics on the page it looks like it had a singlepoint.

    <img src=http://mywebpages.comcast.net/lonepigeon/RHpist1.jpg>

    I'll give you a full parts rundown in a minute.

    Edit: added a photo.
     
  4. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    lonepigeon wrote:
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    Any other photos?
    Chris
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    Cheers Chris,
    I have a couple of other scanned photos (they are basically the same as the above images, but are lit differently, so might be useful to identify some details), and hi-res versions of the above photos. Were there any details in particular it would be useful to try and focus on?
     
  5. Bothan Jedi

    Bothan Jedi Well-Known Member

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    Interesting find...thanks for sharing these great pics.

    Now all we need is for PropReplicator to come up with a Dr Who link so we can make it [​IMG]
     
  6. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    Full parts list:
    Singlepoint scope
    Charter Arms AR-7 Explorer
    Sterling L2A3 Grip

    Details (right side):
    V8 Part #78 Oil Pump lower half
    V8 Part #86 Fuel pump front half
    V8 Part #87 Actuator Arm (fuel pump)

    (left side)
    V8 Part #88 Fuel pump rear half
    Fett ESB rifle scope block (I know what this is, but it's best for another topic)
    Cloud City Blaster right side detail (exact identity unknown)

    That's pretty much it except for the scope rings.
    There are a couple small rod-like pieces on the sides, but they're too small to get an exact identity (probably V-8 parts though, with some measuring I could probably figure them out).
    It's missing the barrel and the British Mortar Shell Fin Assembly for the muzzle.
     
    LorduDesign likes this.
  7. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I believe Dr. Who also used those mortar fins as gun muzzles, but I forget where I heard that.
     
  8. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    lonepigeon wrote:
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    There are a couple small rod-like pieces on the sides, but they're too small to get an exact identity (probably V-8 parts though, with some measuring I could probably figure them out).
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
    I'll post bigger pics shortly.
     
  9. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Bothan Jedi wrote:
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    Interesting find...thanks for sharing these great pics.
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    No problem. I'm enjoying the discussion already [​IMG]
     
  10. rayra

    rayra Well-Known Member

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    ah. too late. was going to identify the body / breech as an AR-7. The angled magazine and grooved barrel attachment ring are dead giveaways.
     
  11. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    A little more:
    V8 Part #87 Fuel pump actuator arm is repeated above Fett piece on the left side. I can't identify the part in front of it likely a part from another kit. This piece and the one to the left of the Fett piece are likely aircraft model parts. I'm working on identifying exactly which aircraft were used on ESB props (there is an early sidewinder missle on the DH-17, which is the best clue so far).

    The slotted screw on the left side was added.

    The cylinder piece on the right side is too nondescript to positively identify. It could be part of V8 part #70 (rocker arm shaft)- it's the right diameter but much longer. All other V8 parts are too big or too small.

    It would be pretty easy to make if someone casted an AR-7.
     
  12. Xaqted

    Xaqted Well-Known Member

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    Just by glanceing at it, it looks sorta like a ScoutTroopers pistol.
     
  13. rayra

    rayra Well-Known Member

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    was also going to say it looked very much like they'd used the long bent-looking trigger from a Sterling, but it appears the AR-7's trigger is very similar in shape -

    [​IMG]

    (and don't get excited by ar-7.com's offerring parts - the Receiver (which is what we want) IS the firearm as far as BATF is concerned. As such, not usually for sale seperately or cheaply.

    Ask some of the firearms fans here, surely one of them has an AR-7 that a cast could be made of.
     
  14. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    Wow, some great input coming in.

    The additional photos I have don't show it from any other angle, but if I crop them and clean them in Photoshop, they show some of the breech detail better. Here they are if anybody is interested:

    [attachmentid=1579]

    [attachmentid=1580]
     
  15. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    And I'll keep working on this a little longer, but here is a Photoshop reconstruction of what the blaster may have looked like whole (happy to hear advice/suggestions for corrections):


    [attachmentid=1581]

    (pic of British Mortar Shell Fin Assembly modified from www.partsofsw.com
     
  16. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    We need to find one of those mortar tails!
     
  17. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I've thought about buying one on several occasions, but without an AR-7 to put it on I had no reason to. The mortar fins aren't hard to find.

    Looking at it in the film I'd say the barrel and muzzle are identical to Ponda Baba's. It was probably cast from the same prop gun.

    The barrel should taper more. It's either the original rifle barrel cut down or maybe the barrel of the pistol version of the gun (it has the rifle body though). I was going to take your pics and modify them for PoSW (using the Baba blaster photo and a little cleanup on the scope). Another page to add to my "to do" list.
     
  18. TK818

    TK818 Well-Known Member

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    I have the AR7, the Sterling grip and the Single Point.
    I was going to throw one together if I ever did a Hoth Trooper.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    TK818 wrote:
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    [​IMG]
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    Ah, now that's a nice pic of the weapon.
    Does anyone have additional pics of it unholstered?
    [​IMG]
     
  20. TK818

    TK818 Well-Known Member

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    How aout this?

    [​IMG]
     
  21. TK0460

    TK0460 New Member

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    My $.02, mortar fins are easy to find....It's a 60mm for sure. I think I can get ahold of a few. They won't be identical because no one uses that type of mortar round anymore. It's obsolete. Dale
     
  22. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    TK818 wrote:
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    How about this?

    [​IMG]
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    Brilliant. It almost looks like a 'naked' barrel tip, in contrast to the Ponda Baba version? More than one variation on the Hoth Rebel issue of this weapon perhaps, or are the mortar fins just a similar color to the trooper's pants??
     
  23. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    The fins are just close to the pants color. I can see fins above and below the barrel tip (top one is dark and has an edge highlight, bottom one is just dark).
     
  24. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    lonepigeon wrote:
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    The fins are just close to the pants color. I can see fins above and below the barrel tip (top one is dark and has an edge highlight, bottom one is just dark).
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
    Okay, I'll buy that observation.
     
  25. rayra

    rayra Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    LorduDesign likes this.
  26. nick daring

    nick daring Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I've been wanting to make a Ponda Baba gun for a while.
    I love the way the thing looks!

    The mortars with the correct fins pop up on ebay every so often and the gun is fairly cheap.

    http://www.impactguns.com/store/ar7.html
    http://www.thegunsource.com/rifles/ar7.htm

    You could make the whole thing for less than 200 bucks.

    Is there any difference from the AR-7 being made today as that of the one being made pre-77?

    From what I've read there is very little difference if any.

    Alot of dough for one gun but a hell of a lot cheaper than a sterling and a lot less work.

    Nick
     
  27. TK818

    TK818 Well-Known Member

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    I bought mine in 1980 for $95 at Big 5 Sporting Goods.
    I saw it used in From Russia With Love and just had to have one!
     
  28. Seabass

    Seabass Sr Member

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    *, thats a pretty sweet rifle as it is.

    love the fact that it can completely pack up into its stock
     
  29. rayra

    rayra Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    TK818 wrote:
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    I saw it used in From Russia With Love and just had to have one!

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

    Ha, I remember seeing that and laughing my * off. It's such a cheesy little .22 [​IMG] My uncle had one that I messed with as a kid, remember how sharp the feed lips were on the magazine - pain to load it.

    I think the only thing they've changed in the last decades has been the composition of the stock - was a thin easily cracked fiberglass with a swirled gelcoat. Last one I saw in a gun store looked like it was black plastic (zytel?).
     
  30. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I have refined my reconstruction using the Ponda Baba pistol as reference for scale. I'll clean up the damaged scope next (EDIT: scope has been repaired).


    [attachmentid=1582]
     
  31. Mercury

    Mercury Sr Member

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    I have one of those guns. Received it from a tire dealer when I was working for Goodyear in the mid 80s. Mine has the Black plastic foam-filled stock and 2 clips. Use rat shot in it for snakes and such. Thought about converting it one time, but never got around to it. While it appears cheaply made on the surface, it's held up remarkably well over the years. [​IMG]
     
  32. Mookie

    Mookie New Member

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    Too bad I hate the Hoth Rebel Trooper.

    Yeah riiiiiight. Okay where and when can I get mine? I think that would be awesome to have one. I knew they had this gun but seeing as I'm not a gun nut and wanted the A-280 based off the MP-44 receiver, never gave this some thought.

    This thread is about one of the most complete threads on a prop in the fastest time. I love you guys.

    Now I want one. Mmmmmmmm where's my Tauntaun.

    A Happy Hoth Rebel,

    Mookie
     
  33. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

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    I have a picture of this prop in "complete form" somewhere too...not a great one I think, just a little fuzzy thing, but it hasnt been posted yet....

    I'll try to dig it out.

    Curious about the origins to that original posted in the pics above??? Who's is it?

    Brandon
     
  34. Boba Debt

    Boba Debt Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    lonepigeon wrote:
    <HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    Full parts list:
    Singlepoint scope
    Charter Arms AR-7 Explorer
    Sterling L2A3 Grip

    Details (right side):
    V8 Part #78 Oil Pump lower half
    V8 Part #86 Fuel pump front half
    V8 Part #87 Actuator Arm (fuel pump)

    (left side)
    V8 Part #88 Fuel pump rear half
    Fett ESB rifle scope block (I know what this is, but it's best for another topic)
    Cloud City Blaster right side detail (exact identity unknown)

    That's pretty much it except for the scope rings.
    There are a couple small rod-like pieces on the sides, but they're too small to get an exact identity (probably V-8 parts though, with some measuring I could probably figure them out).
    It's missing the barrel and the British Mortar Shell Fin Assembly for the muzzle.

    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>



    So Far I have most of these parts and I am trying to track down a good used AR-7.

    From what I have seen the straight knurled part on the front of the receiver is part of the original barrel and the mortar part should be easy to replicate.

    The scope rings are fairly common thin high mount rings, I may go with a new set until the original maker is discovered.



    Chris, please share what the Fett ESB rifle scope block is, I plan to machine mine but I would like to know what it is first.


    I have a funny feeling that the unidentified Cloud City Blaster right side detail is part of the AR-7s rear site [​IMG]


    I may ask Sink Tube Jedi if he wants to cast the model parts in metal for me or I may try it myself.


    I also need to find someone to cast the Sterling Grip. I bet Wakal could do it [​IMG]



    This is a great prop that should be fairly easy and inexpensive to make and I hope a lot of you join me in making one.
     
  35. Mercury

    Mercury Sr Member

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    I believe that is the rifle barrel cut down. Mine has that rough texture to it and is tapered down the length. The pistol version had more of a drastic taper to it than the the rifle obviously, but it still appears to be too thick at the end for the pistol. [​IMG]
     
  36. BAlinger15

    BAlinger15 Community Founder

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    Well, this pic is worse than I remembered it being. Though it does show the holster setup:

    [attachmentid=1583]

    Later,
    Brandon
     
  37. Krel

    Krel Sr Member

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    Charter Arms used to make a pistol version of the AR-7 (sorry, I don't remember it's name), it had a pistol grip, and a 6 inch barrel. The pistol grip, and short barrel could not be used on the rifle version due to ATF rules.

    The pistol was used, either with a new barrel, or barrel shroud in the movie "Future World". There are also some publicity photos from "Buck Rogers" with Gil Gerard holding the pistol. The pistol also used in an episode of the "Mike Hammer" series as a ceramic, composite weapon.

    David.
     
  38. E.D.C. Studios

    E.D.C. Studios Well-Known Member

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    I have partial molds off of my AR-7, I can easily finish them up and offer castings if anyone wants them. I was going to finish them up anyway for the Ponda gun.
     
  39. TK818

    TK818 Well-Known Member

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    They definitely had more than one in ESB:

    [​IMG]

    Here's a pic from a trading card but it could be fake.
    That's a real AR7, not a casting and the mortar looks right but the back of the gun and the scope look photo shopped.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Yes, the trading card is a touched up Panda Baba pic.

    [​IMG]

    (Pic from POSW)
     
  40. nick daring

    nick daring Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Cool!
    WHat a weird picture.

    Who's hand is that supposed to be?

    Also the Mortar is off. Too many holes

    Nick
     
  41. Mercury

    Mercury Sr Member

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    The whole top piece and barrel look photoshopped to me. Even the barrel nut doesn't look right and the color/sharpness doesn't match. IMO [​IMG]
     
  42. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    E.D.C. Studios wrote:
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    I have partial molds off of my AR-7, I can easily finish them up and offer castings if anyone wants them. I was going to finish them up anyway for the Ponda gun.
    </TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>
    I'd be interested in casts of the relevant section. It would be great to have a clean replica of this.
    [​IMG]
     
  43. nick daring

    nick daring Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Is there any chance that the greeblies were on the original Ponda boba gun.

    The side shot pic is a pre-production photo and the scope was turned around before shooting.

    Wasn't most of the V8 bashing done in ESB?

    Does anyone have a cleaner screen shot with less shadow than the one on POSW?
    http://www.partsofsw.com/pondagun.htm

    I could swear that I've seen a a set picture wear he's hold ing that gun with his suction cup hand.

    Of course I could be wrong.

    Nick
     
  44. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    The greeblies weren't on the Ponda Baba gun.
    The likely V8 kit they used was the 1977 reissue by Revell and it was the ESB Property Department head that decided to use the kit. Besides all that every detail on it is an ESB piece.

    That's the best LFL movie photo I can think of. It's the same shot I used for the first Set Piece article in the Insider. There were only two shots to pick from of the confrontation. The other photo has Evazan blocking Baba's arm (back view of both of them). There could be some other odd B&W photo out there.

    On the Fett gun piece: I want to revise my drawings of the part now that I have these shots to check my scaling. Once I do that I'll post my drawings/measurements and assorted photos of the piece. It shouldn't be hard to find, I spotted a fairly close match already. It's smaller and more detailed than previously thought. I'll post a therad within a couple days.
     
  45. rayra

    rayra Well-Known Member

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    </SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
    BAlinger15 wrote:
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    Well, this pic is worse than I remembered it being. Though it does show the holster setup:

    EDIT Huge-* pic rem'd
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    Hey, gigantor, how about downsizing that pic?
     
  46. Tonfa Sartan

    Tonfa Sartan New Member

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    Hi guys,

    Boba Debt asked me to post this...I will work on finding the name of the mortar...so far all I have is British 2" mortar shell

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have located one and will be purchasing it shortly...it may very well fall into some silicon
     
  47. DrMaul

    DrMaul Well-Known Member

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    Those are useful pics. Casts would be great...but so would dimensions, as that looks like quite a good piece to scratchbuild and/or work up some templates from.
    [​IMG]
     
  48. lonepigeon

    lonepigeon Sr Member

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    I have several photos and diagrams I've saved of these things overs the years, but I don't think I've ever run across a name. They'd have been produced under a British military contract so there's probably a few makers.
    They had mortars for all types of purposes and several used the same fin assembly.

    I've got all sorts of stuff on identifying markings, but I don't think that helps.
     
  49. Sean_Galt

    Sean_Galt New Member

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    The pistol version of the AR-7 was called the "Explorer II."
     
  50. Mercury

    Mercury Sr Member

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    The reason I don't believe it was the pistol version is mainly because why glue a Sterling grip on it if it already had a wood pistol grip. Regardless though, pistol or rifle, they look identical. [​IMG]
     

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