Supreme Court says you can't limit sale of video games to minors

jcoffman99

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Court: Calif. can't ban violent video game sales - Video Games Blog Plugged In - Yahoo! Games

WASHINGTON (AP) – The Supreme Court on Monday refused to let California regulate the sale or rental of violent video games to children, saying governments do not have the power to "restrict the ideas to which children may be exposed" despite complaints about graphic violence.

Mortal KombatWarner Bros. Interactive On a 7-2 vote, the high court upheld a federal appeals court decision to throw out the state's ban on the sale or rental of violent video games to minors. The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Sacramento had ruled that the law violated minors' rights under the First Amendment, and the high court agreed.

"No doubt a state possesses legitimate power to protect children from harm," said Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion. "But that does not include a free-floating power to restrict the ideas to which children may be exposed."

The California law would have prohibited the sale or rental of violent games to anyone under 18. Retailers who violated the act would have been fined up to $1,000 for each infraction.

More than 46 million American households have at least one video-game system, with the industry bringing in at least $18 billion in 2010.

Unlike depictions of "sexual conduct," Scalia said there is no tradition in the United States of restricting children's access to depictions of violence, pointing out the violence in the original depiction of many popular children's fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, Cinderella and Snow White.

Hansel and Gretel kill their captor by baking her in an oven, Cinderella's evil stepsisters have their eyes pecked out by doves and the evil queen in Snow White is forced to wear red hot slippers and dance until she is dead, Scalia said.

"Certainly the books we give children to read — or read to them when they are younger — contain no shortage of gore," Scalia added.

But Justice Clarence Thomas, who dissented from the decision along with Justice Stephen Breyer, said the majority read something into the First Amendment that isn't there.

"The practices and beliefs of the founding generation establish that "the freedom of speech," as originally understood, does not include a right to speak to minors (or a right of minors to access speech) without going through the minors' parents or guardians," Thomas wrote.
 
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My basic question would be, if you can't tell kids they can't buy violent games, how can you tell them they can't go to R, or even NC-17 rated movies?

The same exceptions applied in games - the parent could still be the one to buy it, then give it to the kid. Same with with movies, you can get into the R rated movie if you're with an adult. There's no exception for NC-17.

Why doesn't this strike at the ratings system as well?
 
My basic question would be, if you can't tell kids they can't buy violent games, how can you tell them they can't go to R, or even NC-17 rated movies?

The same exceptions applied in games - the parent could still be the one to buy it, then give it to the kid. Same with with movies, you can get into the R rated movie if you're with an adult. There's no exception for NC-17.

Why doesn't this strike at the ratings system as well?
Did you miss this part of Scalia's summary?

Unlike depictions of "sexual conduct," Scalia said there is no tradition in the United States of restricting children's access to depictions of violence, pointing out the violence in the original depiction of many popular children's fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, Cinderella and Snow White.

Hansel and Gretel kill their captor by baking her in an oven, Cinderella's evil stepsisters have their eyes pecked out by doves and the evil queen in Snow White is forced to wear red hot slippers and dance until she is dead, Scalia said.

"Certainly the books we give children to read — or read to them when they are younger — contain no shortage of gore," Scalia added.



 
Unlike depictions of "sexual conduct," Scalia said there is no tradition in the United States of restricting children's access to depictions of violence, pointing out the violence in the original depiction of many popular children's fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, Cinderella and Snow White.

"Tradition"... gotta love it. Nevermind the differences between depictions of violence in a fairy tale and a guy having his entrails ripped out in bloody detail.

:rolleyes
 
In the end, it all comes back to parenting. How I read this decision is "Stop counting on the gummint to raise your kids, dammit!"
 
My basic question would be, if you can't tell kids they can't buy violent games, how can you tell them they can't go to R, or even NC-17 rated movies?

The same exceptions applied in games - the parent could still be the one to buy it, then give it to the kid. Same with with movies, you can get into the R rated movie if you're with an adult. There's no exception for NC-17.

Why doesn't this strike at the ratings system as well?

Well, actually, as far as I know anyway, there are no LAWS against allowing a kid into an NC-17 film. The MPAA ratings system, like the ESAA system, is entirely voluntary and theater owners enforce it themselves. It's not like you've got a special branch of the local PD for "theater patrol."

The limitations usually apply to selling porn to kids.

In the end, it all comes back to parenting. How I read this decision is "Stop counting on the gummint to raise your kids, dammit!"

Yeah, except that with Scalia, it's never entirely that simple. It is...until he disagrees with it. At which point he comes up with an elaborate tapdance routine to explain his opinion. He'll happily overturn "tradition" if he can find a competing "tradition" that suits his own belief system.


Basically, I have a VERY dim view of Scalia as a jurist. I know people love to point to him as being somehow consistent, but that's a load of crap. He makes stuff up just as much as any of the other justices, and "legislates from the bench" just as much as anyone else. He's just got a better story when he does.

That said, this end result coincides with my own general view of First Amendment jurisprudence, so I'm happy about it (although I'm still trying to figure out what First Amendment rights OF THE MINORS were being violated by this law?).
 
"Tradition"... gotta love it. Nevermind the differences between depictions of violence in a fairy tale and a guy having his entrails ripped out in bloody detail.

I was watching The Secret of NIMH the other day and was actually quite surprised to see the amount of 'violence' in a 'G' rated child's movie... Not all that different then many video games just not as much detail, so there is clearly some history of violence being treated different then sexual content...

Anyway I applaud the ruling, as I firmly believe it should be the parents job to monitor and raise your child not a government full of laws and rules...
 
Well, actually, as far as I know anyway, there are no LAWS against allowing a kid into an NC-17 film. The MPAA ratings system, like the ESAA system, is entirely voluntary and theater owners enforce it themselves. It's not like you've got a special branch of the local PD for "theater patrol."

The rating system in voluntary, but several communities (and even States like TN) have in fact passed laws in regards to age requirements for movies... I suspect they might very well be up for a challenge now though, one of those laws people just except until a decision like this...
 
I was watching The Secret of NIMH the other day and was actually quite surprised to see the amount of 'violence' in a 'G' rated child's movie... Not all that different then many video games just not as much detail, so there is clearly some history of violence being treated different then sexual content...

Anyway I applaud the ruling, as I firmly believe it should be the parents job to monitor and raise your child not a government full of laws and rules...

Oh, I don't disagree... at least not much, if at all. I'm all for less laws and more common sense. My gripe is just that it's true that violence (really graphic violence) is often viewed SO differently. I've been around lots of folks who are quick to preach against sexual content but then LOVE watching violent stuff on tv. I mean, heaven forbid you see a bare breast even in a non-sexual situation. It's just a hypocritical aspect of America that's always bugged me so I don't mean to get on another soapbox.

What I don't understand though is that if the court says you can't restrict the sale of violent videogames to minors, I can't see how they can even use tradition to justify not making other things available to minors that are still restricted. I just don't get it and presumably never will :angel I'm just going to continue to try being as good a father as I can be in what seems like an insane world some days...
 
It's because this country was founded by puritans.

As for why the court says this is bad but it's ok to restrict the sale of, say, porn to kids, it's because of

fiddler47.jpeg


Traditiooooooooooooooooon!!!


In more detail, because traditionally sex is icky but killing stuff is cool.

Make more sense now?

Yeah, me neither. See also, George Carlin's recommendation of replacing the word "kill" in old movies and TV shows with the word ****. Oh, wait. Sorry. Shouldn't mention Carlin around the Supreme Court either...
 
It doesn't matter. We have the ESRB rating system, it's just parents ignore it to shut their little crumb grabbers up!
 
Now kids are gonna be able to buy violent games no problem and then if they decide to one day go kill someone, ******* parents are going to have an even easier time blaming video games because their stupid kids are psychotic.
 
Did you miss this part of Scalia's summary?




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Didn't miss that part at all. There are quite a lot of R rated movies that get the rating for violence and language an not sexual content.

Still, even his statement of there's no tradition of protecting kids from violence raises two points. One, tradition isn't law and you can easily argue if violence is OK so is sex, if not more preferable. Two, why can't you start a tradition now, especially when violence in society/the world is a problem.

Not saying i'm on either side, just curious.

Plus, as noted, there are communities who pass laws on ratings.

Is it legal for a store to say 'i won't sell pepsi to anyone under the age of 18'? Sure, theater owners can police themselves per MPAA guidelines, but does it now put them in someone's crosshairs for a lawsuit? I can see it now, "Parent's sue because child not admitted to NC-17 Movie". People would probably try it in this day and age simply for the lawsuit.

Does it bring attire requirements into this as well? I.e., No shirt, no shoes, no service?
 
Is it legal for a store to say 'i won't sell pepsi to anyone under the age of 18'? Sure, theater owners can police themselves per MPAA guidelines, but does it now put them in someone's crosshairs for a lawsuit? I can see it now, "Parent's sue because child not admitted to NC-17 Movie". People would probably try it in this day and age simply for the lawsuit.

Does it bring attire requirements into this as well? I.e., No shirt, no shoes, no service?

There is a huge distinction in Constitutional law and it's application in regards to governmental 'laws' vs private entities 'rules' and 'policies'...

But, yeah I'm sure based on this decision we will see several similar challenges made to policies and existing laws...
 
I think the part about banning them is wrong, but I have no problem with stores carding kids for M rated games. I still think it's funny how upset people in the U.S. get by seeing a woman's nipple, but have no problem with Looney Toons characters killing each other. I posted about it before, but the show How It's Made had a segment showing how they make mannequins and they blurred the nipples on the female mannequins... :lol

There's also a problem with people's perception of video games. People who don't play them assume that they are for kids, when in fact the average game is somewhere between 20 and 40. So their perception is that the evil game companies are making violent games for kids. That's why there was a huge uproar about nudity (there actually wasn't) in Mass Effect when it came out.
 
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