Suicide Squad

[Mektar]

Dont forget about enchantress also.

 

[Snikt]

Dont forget about enchantress also.

Oh, I dont even know who that is. Was she in the trailer? Is she the ninja looking chick, with the mask?

 

[Fawbish]

Nah, thats Katana. Her sword steals the souls of those she kills, she's traditionally sort of an anti hero rather than a flat out villain.

Enchantress is the witch looking one played by Cara Delvigne, who in the trailer before this is the one who is looking over Rick Flaggs shoulder in her normal form (Deadshot, he's a guy who shoots people..he's a crocodile and he eats people, burns people, you're possessed by a witch...and she'd just crazy)

But interestingly enough, in the whitehouse there is a shot where all of the squad members are projected onto the wall. And Enchantress isnt one of them. She's also hanging out with Flagg instead of a cell.

 

[Snikt]

Nah, thats Katana. Her sword steals the souls of those she kills, she's traditionally sort of an anti hero rather than a flat out villain.

Enchantress is the witch looking one played by Cara Delvigne, who in the trailer before this is the one who is looking over Rick Flaggs shoulder in her normal form (Deadshot, he's a guy who shoots people..he's a crocodile and he eats people, burns people, you're possessed by a witch...and she'd just crazy)

But interestingly enough, in the whitehouse there is a shot where all of the squad members are projected onto the wall. And Enchantress isnt one of them. She's also hanging out with Flagg instead of a cell.

Thank you for clarifying, Ill have to watch the trailer again and look out for the points you made.

 

[Fawbish]

Just watched the trailer again and noticed something in a quote - no doubt it could be nothing.

SPOILERS for BvS below

Spoiler

"Gentlemen. Ladies. What if Superman, had decided to fly down, rip off the roof of the Whitehouse, and grab the president right out of the oval office. Who woulda stopped him?"

Listening to the inflection, it doesn't sound like he's talking in the past tense in a normal way, ie. what if this horse had won that race. It sounds to me like the had is speaking about Superman in the past tense ie. post death. So I'm positing that he still isn't out of the ground, and this is supposed to be set 6 months after BvS I believe.

In the comics, he was out of action for a year, and his heart beat once every 60 days. In the animated adaptation of Death of Superman, it was every 30 days and about 3 months before his robot assistant came to find him.

Thoughts? It could completely be nothing, but surely he would have said "What if Superman decided"...?

Additional point

Spoiler

Amanda Waller in the comic con trailer "Maybe Superman was some kind of beacon.."

I mean good lord, she actually says that - the was is so clear now. She would definitely say "Maybe Superman is some kind of beacon.."

 

[dascoyne]

Additional point

Spoiler

Amanda Waller in the comic con trailer "Maybe Superman was some kind of beacon.."

I mean good lord, she actually says that - the was is so clear now. She would definitely say "Maybe Superman is some kind of beacon.."

Spoiler

Maybe superb ham is some kind of bacon?

 

[Fawbish]

Spoiler

Maybe superb ham is some kind of bacon?

Hahaha. Excellent.

 

[Fawbish]

OK. Another can of potential worms.

Harley Quinn's origin within this film.

So far it points towards the new 52 origin that has a few more backstory points, as opposed to the more basic and slightly more elegant Mad Love origin (52 version still has much of the mad love elements). And I think people are getting quite amped and annoyed by that - but having just reminded myself of both origins, I'd love to see it play out like this, matching up to what we know from the trailers so far...

Harleen Quinzel is a psychologist most likely studying the criminal mind (and has a dark fascination with it) and has a job at Arkham where she ends up meeting the Joker, probably intentionally. I think she organises sessions with him restrained, but as they go on, he slowly convinces her to undo his restraints (I think we may only be shown this scene rather than the prior meetings, but they will be hinted at) and of course he could easily kill her, but doesn't. Probably allows himself to be restrained again after threatening her. This rush of adrenaline and what could have happened but didnt puts her on a dark path where the culmination is his release or escape. As they are on the run together, she sees a darker side of him (the much photo'd car/gun/her in normal clothes/him in a suit) and rebels at his "control" a bit - and is slapped by Joker etc to ensure she knows who's boss. He takes her to where he himself feels like he was "created" - but he doesn't push her in.

At this point I think even I (who is a massive proponent of taking the story as it is, not how we want it) think she shouldn't be pushed, BUT she probably will be pushed. There are elements of interest in being pushed - Joker's isolation, he wants someone to be like him, he wants to control her, he needs an ally, he is just having fun "unlocking" her and this is one of the keys etc- but I am not certain whether she should:

1) Jump in herself
2) Accidentally fall

I think jumping in herself would have awesome dramatic weight. it shows she is unhinged enough and devoted to him so much that she is willing to emulate him, and it represents a perfect opposite (if he fell into there) for the joker to contend with. We also have the fact that there are blue and red swirls in the chemicals, which could mean that she has already dyed her hair prior as per New 52 origin - but she doesnt have the hair dye in the car/gun/slap scene. So perhaps he dyes it for her between /whilst torturing her (or the torture allows him to control her) before pushing her into the chemicals.

Accidentally falling would be lame I think, but could lead to an interesting moment of the Joker trying to save her just by reaching forward - allowing us to see he does have emotions towards her. Which would be powerful before he jumps in to collect her.

I think I'd really enjoy her jumping in herself. Possibly with the Joker making a little "Oh...she went there. Nice." face before he jumps in after her as we have seen.

TL: DR Harley's origin within the movie, should she be pushed into the chemicals or jump herself? Thoughts?

 

[teragon]

You forgot that she's wearing her medical lab coat in the scenes where she's trapped on a table while Joker electrocutes her. I don't think this version was willing here. Fascinated at first perhaps, but after that she was a victim. Then she embraced it, but not before the Joker broke her. That's my take at least. Also, the color swirls in the chemical are from both their shirt dissolving. His is purple and hers blue, hence the colours around them.

 

[Fawbish]

Ahhhh good spots chief. Rather than forgetting, don't think I even noticed or at least hadn't paused on that spot to see the labcoat on the table! Must be more thorough. Have since seen some good screenshots.

Quite clearly pushes towards it being a forced push then.

It does show that the power of the Joker is pretty damning - compels and corrupts etc I suppose.

How do you feel about her being an "innocent victim" in that sense? Poss not innocent for all we know so far, but if we assume.

 

[Snikt]

I personally think the idea of her being pushed into chemicals at all is a slap in the face to fans, and kind of a hackneyed thing considering thats the jokers origin. Like it could happen again. Especially when she had such an awesome/original origin to begin with.

 

[Father]

I don't know that it makes me want to see this movie any more. But changing the music certainly does something for it. As a huge PIxies fan I might be biased though

 

[Father]

I thought this was funny... but not funny haha, funny as in imagining the cast and crew facepalming and eye rolling as Leto runs around in character doing these things.
I imagine there's a line drawn between method actors and people who are trying to hard to come off as method actors and only end up coming off as the guy that won't be hired any time soon for another movie.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/jared-leto-joker-suicide-squad-method-acting-dead-animals/

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/287450/jared-leto-suicide-squad-cast-mates-used-condoms-anal-beads/

http://www.avclub.com/article/viola-davis-was-not-having-any-jared-letos-****-se-235521

"Davis confirmed that no, she wasn’t about to deal with all that bull **** at work just because Leto thinks he’s Daniel Day-Lewis or something now that he won an Oscar"

 

[AJTaliesen]

I thought this was funny... but not funny haha, funny as in imagining the cast and crew facepalming and eye rolling as Leto runs around in character doing these things.
I imagine there's a line drawn between method actors and people who are trying to hard to come off as method actors and only end up coming off as the guy that won't be hired any time soon for another movie.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/jared-leto-joker-suicide-squad-method-acting-dead-animals/

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/287450/jared-leto-suicide-squad-cast-mates-used-condoms-anal-beads/

http://www.avclub.com/article/viola-davis-was-not-having-any-jared-letos-****-se-235521

I don't doubt that he's getting into character, I just think he's getting into the wrong character.

It pretty much summarizes my overall impressions of the film so far, that those antics don't really sound like the kinds of things a person suffering from either Psychopathic or sociopathic disorders. They sound more like the kinds of things an obnoxious attention ***** would do to show how edgy and over the line he is. Basically, about the same amount of "swing and a miss" as the whole debacle appears to be.


unfortunately, it probably will make money and might even have decent appeal to younger audiences so it's likely that this is the DC movie universe we get for a while.


edit: I did not know that the W word for 'street walker' would be considered profanity. Interesting.

 

[KrangPrime]

I don't doubt that he's getting into character, I just think he's getting into the wrong character.

It pretty much summarizes my overall impressions of the film so far, that those antics don't really sound like the kinds of things a person suffering from either Psychopathic or sociopathic disorders. They sound more like the kinds of things an obnoxious attention ***** would do to show how edgy and over the line he is. Basically, about the same amount of "swing and a miss" as the whole debacle appears to be.

Almost like the Leto Joker is the personification of WB Execs scrambling to figure out how to save their movie verse.....
Sounds like WB as a whole. 'lets see how many bizarre alterations we can do to these characters before the general public wises up and says 'just give us what works'..

 

[Snikt]

I don't doubt that he's getting into character, I just think he's getting into the wrong character.

It pretty much summarizes my overall impressions of the film so far, that those antics don't really sound like the kinds of things a person suffering from either Psychopathic or sociopathic disorders. They sound more like the kinds of things an obnoxious attention ***** would do to show how edgy and over the line he is. Basically, about the same amount of "swing and a miss" as the whole debacle appears to be.


unfortunately, it probably will make money and might even have decent appeal to younger audiences so it's likely that this is the DC movie universe we get for a while.


edit: I did not know that the W word for 'street walker' would be considered profanity. Interesting.

Yeah you cant say anything on here, its weird.

 

[Fawbish]

I don't doubt that he's getting into character, I just think he's getting into the wrong character.

It pretty much summarizes my overall impressions of the film so far, that those antics don't really sound like the kinds of things a person suffering from either Psychopathic or sociopathic disorders. They sound more like the kinds of things an obnoxious attention ***** would do to show how edgy and over the line he is. Basically, about the same amount of "swing and a miss" as the whole debacle appears to be.


unfortunately, it probably will make money and might even have decent appeal to younger audiences so it's likely that this is the DC movie universe we get for a while.


edit: I did not know that the W word for 'street walker' would be considered profanity. Interesting.

Ah yes, because we can definitely predict the behavior of a psychopathic individual with antisocial personality disorders, amongst other things, can't we... And it's totally out of character for a fictional character that dresses and acts like a murderous clown prince, who in every iteration of the character has multiple large and ostentatious schemes and plans, to be attention seeking isn't it? The Joker is quite literally an attention seeker. Almost everything he does is grandiose and theatrical. Without Batman's attention he would cease to exist, his existence would be even more meaningless than how he perceives an already meaningless world.

We aren't actors here (well most probably) but it's quite easy to see how unnerving things like that might be on set, and they're creating art. I think he's created a unique approach to bring the production together - even if people get pissed off/worried with it - that's kind of the point? You don't just want to be laughing along with the joker. He should be legitimately terrifying/unpredictable. If that translates some of those feelings to the screen (which a chunk of the cast has alluded to) then fair play. It's just different.

In an office setting, in an engineering company? Definitely not. It's unprofessional and wouldn't make sense. In theatre/acting? It's out there, but it's probably the only place you can get away with that sort of thing.

Claiming "the wrong character" before even seeing the film, about a character that has a multiple choice origin and many, many interesting and varied facets...and taking into account you don't know this specific character yet, his motivations, his goals in the film etc. Give things a chance to stand before tearing it down.

 

[batguy]

I don't know if there was any possible way for Leto to do the Joker that wouldn't seem like trying too hard. IMO it's a thankless job, following the Nicholson and Ledger versions.

The only direction to go was different. But anything different enough would probably take it too far away from "The Joker" character and the tone of this movie.

The best choice would probably be to minimize the character's screen time. Pick and build his scenes very carefully.

 

[Fawbish]

I don't know if there was any possible way for Leto to do the Joker that wouldn't seem like trying too hard. IMO it's a thankless job, following the Nicholson and Ledger versions.

The only direction to go was different. But anything different enough would probably take it too far away from "The Joker" character and the tone of this movie.

The best choice would probably be to minimize the character's screen time. Pick and build his scenes very carefully.

I don't envy them the challenge of bringing another version to life after the obvious stuff like Ledger etc.

I cannot wait to see the whole thing though. Really excited for it.

 

[KrangPrime]

I don't know if there was any possible way for Leto to do the Joker that wouldn't seem like trying too hard. IMO it's a thankless job, following the Nicholson and Ledger versions.

The only direction to go was different. But anything different enough would probably take it too far away from "The Joker" character and the tone of this movie.

If Ledger hadn't died, would anyone have cared about his take?

that last sentence is how I Feel about Ledgers joker. it was NOTHING like how I picture the 'real' joker. the only scene that felt like the 'real' joker was where he's walking away in a nurses outfit and waits for the hospital explosion. The rest, he was just some random lunatic screaming and yelling intensely.

for me, Nicholson was a pretty good live action modern joker. Mark Hamil was the ONLY animated joker.

so far, all i've seen of this leto version...when I can stand to look at the ugliness....i'm not buying it.