Star Trek: Questions you always wanted answers to

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

The passwords for self destruct are also so long I don't know how anyone would memorize it! It's like "Authorize self destruct: RIKER5678902349185242DELTA193592340561238; Execute".

That was Data's lockout code. Picard and Riker have rotating codes that are much simpler, like, "Riker-alpha-seven-three". As stated, biometrics are much more involved than the specific alphanumerics. The point is, essentially, that a command code can't be mistaken for conversation or some other command by the ship's computer.

Which is the point of the TOS and TNG destruct sequences. It requires the senior officers to be in accord -- presumably, the computer recognizes whether there's insufficient officers, but I don't know if the Captain or XO are the only person on a starship, whether they're able to initiate it on their own. But once that matter is resolved, all it takes is their biometrically-approved presences saying the simple trigger phrases. Not gonna lie, the sequence in "Battlefield" and, especially, TSFS still plays wonderfully effectively. Give Shatner whatever **** you want for overacting in other places, but the way he delivers that last line is just perfect. That is a man who is pushing each syllable out while wishing desperately he had any other option.

They tried several versions in TNG, and none of them ever really worked as effectively.

 

[Laspector]

What exactly is up the monetary system in Star Trek? It seems to change all the time.
In ST:III McCoy is trying to get to Genesis and tells the alien guy "Price you name, money I got."
But in ST:IV Gillian asks Kirk "Let me guess, you don't use money in the 23rd century?" and Kirk replies "Well, we don't."
Then by the time you get to the Deep Space Nine era it seems everything is about gold pressed Latinum.

Do they use it or not? What's the deal?

 

[masterjedi322]

What exactly is up the monetary system in Star Trek? It seems to change all the time.
In ST:III McCoy is trying to get to Genesis and tells the alien guy "Price you name, money I got."
But in ST:IV Gillian asks Kirk "Let me guess, you don't use money in the 23rd century?" and Kirk replies "Well, we don't."
Then by the time you get to the Deep Space Nine era it seems everything is about gold pressed Latinum.

Do they use it or not? What's the deal?

I always took it to mean that Starfleet doesn’t use currency, but many of the planets/species outside of Starfleet still do.

Sean

 

[renaissance_man]

Nog says to Jake in one episode (In the Cards if I remember correctly) "it's not my fault your species gave up currency based economics".
I think Starfleet/Earth doesnt use money per se, they probably still trade with other species in many ways just without it involving any kind of currency.
When you have replicators it renders bits of metal and or paper as a currency worthless really.
Granted Dax and some others do use Gold Pressed Latinum a fair bit, but that is likely to allow them to interact with currency based species like the Ferengi and the Bajorans and other species passing through the station given it is Starfleet run but owned by the Bajorans after the Occupation by the Cardassians.

 

[Strikerkc]

sadly, the money situation in star trek is one of the biggest "whatever it needs to be that moment" sort of things.

The most baseline portion seems to be that Earth, because of replicators and near limitless energy, is a post scarcity society. A human on earth gets whatever sort of food, item, etc that they want.

But then there's always this weird other set of things outside of that. like, they can make any meat or meal with replicators, but there are still restaurants that prepare born and raised food where they cook the actual recipes the way we do now, because people enjoy it more (always a little knock to replicator stuff being "not as good"). But these restaurants don't seem to charge money, neither do the farmers or ranchers. Like it's all done for the love of the work; but then... how do you decide who works the restaurant? who farms the food and does the ranching; isn't there a near limitless number of folks that want to "run a ranch"? How does it work out perfectly that the right number of people want to pick crops, and the right number of people want to cook those crops in chic down town restaurants with the exact right number of people who want to wash pots and pans vs want to chop onions, vs want to cook the meals?

Does anyone get to run a restaurant in down town san Francisco if they want? Does anyone get to have a cattle ranch? No, there's only so much space in a city and dirt on a planet that grows grass for cattle, yet these folks just kind of "do it cause they love it" and there's no apparent barrier to entry.

Picard had a vineyard, yet he has no money. Why does he have that land? Ok, it's in his family, he owns it, does he have the ability to sell it? Apparently not, because no one has any money to buy it. yet people work it in his absence and make wine.... because they want to pick grapes for a hobby (not a living, they don't need to do anything for a "living").

Then you've still got colonists getting on ships and going out to rough it. Why? Earth has literally everything? Is it just the pure wanderlust? They act like they had to scrimp and save to get their usually shoddy-as-****-ship? What do they scrimp and save? Who do they buy a ship from when no shipyard has customers for ships?

Earth economy in star trek breaks down completely under any sort of passing analysis. and the more you try to come up with ways to make it work, the more things start to look rrrreeeeeaaaaallll grim and fascist looking. Part of the issue is that the post scarcity economy put forth in the original show was supposed to be part of the goal; an aspiration where the attempt to GET there, would improve the world enough, even if you never fully succeed. it was window dressing on the heart and soul of the show; not supposed to be a blue print for building a real world economy.

 

[Cephus]

sadly, the money situation in star trek is one of the biggest "whatever it needs to be that moment" sort of things.

The most baseline portion seems to be that Earth, because of replicators and near limitless energy, is a post scarcity society. A human on earth gets whatever sort of food, item, etc that they want.

But then there's always this weird other set of things outside of that. like, they can make any meat or meal with replicators, but there are still restaurants that prepare born and raised food where they cook the actual recipes the way we do now, because people enjoy it more (always a little knock to replicator stuff being "not as good"). But these restaurants don't seem to charge money, neither do the farmers or ranchers. Like it's all done for the love of the work; but then... how do you decide who works the restaurant? who farms the food and does the ranching; isn't there a near limitless number of folks that want to "run a ranch"? How does it work out perfectly that the right number of people want to pick crops, and the right number of people want to cook those crops in chic down town restaurants with the exact right number of people who want to wash pots and pans vs want to chop onions, vs want to cook the meals?

Does anyone get to run a restaurant in down town san Francisco if they want? Does anyone get to have a cattle ranch? No, there's only so much space in a city and dirt on a planet that grows grass for cattle, yet these folks just kind of "do it cause they love it" and there's no apparent barrier to entry.

Picard had a vineyard, yet he has no money. Why does he have that land? Ok, it's in his family, he owns it, does he have the ability to sell it? Apparently not, because no one has any money to buy it. yet people work it in his absence and make wine.... because they want to pick grapes for a hobby (not a living, they don't need to do anything for a "living").

Then you've still got colonists getting on ships and going out to rough it. Why? Earth has literally everything? Is it just the pure wanderlust? They act like they had to scrimp and save to get their usually shoddy-as-****-ship? What do they scrimp and save? Who do they buy a ship from when no shipyard has customers for ships?

Earth economy in star trek breaks down completely under any sort of passing analysis. and the more you try to come up with ways to make it work, the more things start to look rrrreeeeeaaaaallll grim and fascist looking. Part of the issue is that the post scarcity economy put forth in the original show was supposed to be part of the goal; an aspiration where the attempt to GET there, would improve the world enough, even if you never fully succeed. it was window dressing on the heart and soul of the show; not supposed to be a blue print for building a real world economy.

It's one of the many things that completely implodes the second you look at it. It's clear that none of the recent writers have ever bothered because... who cares, right? That's a poor example of intelligent worldbuilding when you do something in-world and anyone with half a clue can say "hey, wait a minute!"

 

[Axlotl]

sadly, the money situation in star trek is one of the biggest "whatever it needs to be that moment" sort of things.

The most baseline portion seems to be that Earth, because of replicators and near limitless energy, is a post scarcity society. A human on earth gets whatever sort of food, item, etc that they want.

But then there's always this weird other set of things outside of that. like, they can make any meat or meal with replicators, but there are still restaurants that prepare born and raised food where they cook the actual recipes the way we do now, because people enjoy it more (always a little knock to replicator stuff being "not as good"). But these restaurants don't seem to charge money, neither do the farmers or ranchers. Like it's all done for the love of the work; but then... how do you decide who works the restaurant? who farms the food and does the ranching; isn't there a near limitless number of folks that want to "run a ranch"? How does it work out perfectly that the right number of people want to pick crops, and the right number of people want to cook those crops in chic down town restaurants with the exact right number of people who want to wash pots and pans vs want to chop onions, vs want to cook the meals?

Does anyone get to run a restaurant in down town san Francisco if they want? Does anyone get to have a cattle ranch? No, there's only so much space in a city and dirt on a planet that grows grass for cattle, yet these folks just kind of "do it cause they love it" and there's no apparent barrier to entry.

Picard had a vineyard, yet he has no money. Why does he have that land? Ok, it's in his family, he owns it, does he have the ability to sell it? Apparently not, because no one has any money to buy it. yet people work it in his absence and make wine.... because they want to pick grapes for a hobby (not a living, they don't need to do anything for a "living").

Then you've still got colonists getting on ships and going out to rough it. Why? Earth has literally everything? Is it just the pure wanderlust? They act like they had to scrimp and save to get their usually shoddy-as-****-ship? What do they scrimp and save? Who do they buy a ship from when no shipyard has customers for ships?

Earth economy in star trek breaks down completely under any sort of passing analysis. and the more you try to come up with ways to make it work, the more things start to look rrrreeeeeaaaaallll grim and fascist looking. Part of the issue is that the post scarcity economy put forth in the original show was supposed to be part of the goal; an aspiration where the attempt to GET there, would improve the world enough, even if you never fully succeed. it was window dressing on the heart and soul of the show; not supposed to be a blue print for building a real world economy.

Fascist?
Maybe some kind of socialism, probably Democratic socialism, but Fascist?

 

[Strikerkc]

Fascist?
Maybe some kind of socialism, probably Democratic socialism, but Fascist?

in order to do the sort of things they're doing, the more you try and make all the answers fit, the more direct control over a person the federation would need. It gets to kind of a dystopian level of population control and all that stuff if you really try and fit all the earth economy things into the picture; which they clearly don't have in the star trek series, which is part of why the economy and the culture they've put forth breaks down and doesn't mesh.

Better to just realize that none of the writers that ever came up with any of the info were trying to make it out that way. like I said, it's window dressing to allow for the rest of the story, not meant to be taken as a blue print. It's more a matter of one writer making a story about how there's no money any more, and then another writer making a story about cisco being a chef, and another writing one about picard having a vinyard, and none of them try to sit down with an economics book and hash it out over the TNG era shows. because all those things are there to serve the story of that individual episode.

 

[renaissance_man]

in order to do the sort of things they're doing, the more you try and make all the answers fit, the more direct control over a person the federation would need. It gets to kind of a dystopian level of population control and all that stuff if you really try and fit all the earth economy things into the picture; which they clearly don't have in the star trek series, which is part of why the economy and the culture they've put forth breaks down and doesn't mesh.

Better to just realize that none of the writers that ever came up with any of the info were trying to make it out that way. like I said, it's window dressing to allow for the rest of the story, not meant to be taken as a blue print. It's more a matter of one writer making a story about how there's no money any more, and then another writer making a story about cisco being a chef, and another writing one about picard having a vinyard, and none of them try to sit down with an economics book and hash it out over the TNG era shows. because all those things are there to serve the story of that individual episode.

Maybe it is hard to imagine that kind of future because right now everthing is polarised and or politicised.
In a future where there is no poverty and people are free to pursue their own interests, personal achievements are the currency. You can be an ambitious academic and join Starfleet science, or a doctor or engineer. Or if you just want to be a painter and trade an original, hand painted picture on canvas you can trade it for a bottle of traditionally made wine or a piece of handmade furniture.

 

[Riceball]

Maybe it is hard to imagine that kind of future because right now everthing is polarised and or politicised.
In a future where there is no poverty and people are free to pursue their own interests, personal achievements are the currency. You can be an ambitious academic and join Starfleet science, or a doctor or engineer. Or if you just want to be a painter and trade an original, hand painted picture on canvas you can trade it for a bottle of traditionally made wine or a piece of handmade furniture.

It still falls apart when you really look into it because while there ould be things people would do simply for the enjoyment or love of it, but not everything that would support some of these endeavors would be that desirable. In the case of running a vineyard, who's going to pick the grapes? While it might be enjoyable to actually and/or run a vineyard but you can't tell me that there's that many people out there are that many people out there who would enjoy picking grapes so much that they'd do it for the sake of it. While there are no profits to be concerned about, without a certain minimum number of people to work as pickers there's going to be a lot of wasted grapes at the vineyard. Then there's restaurants, you're going to tell me that there's people out there whose treated ambition in life is to be a waiter/waitress that they'd enjoy serving people food so much that they'd do it just for the sake of it?

 

[renaissance_man]

It still falls apart when you really look into it because while there ould be things people would do simply for the enjoyment or love of it, but not everything that would support some of these endeavors would be that desirable. In the case of running a vineyard, who's going to pick the grapes? While it might be enjoyable to actually and/or run a vineyard but you can't tell me that there's that many people out there are that many people out there who would enjoy picking grapes so much that they'd do it for the sake of it. While there are no profits to be concerned about, without a certain minimum number of people to work as pickers there's going to be a lot of wasted grapes at the vineyard. Then there's restaurants, you're going to tell me that there's people out there whose treated ambition in life is to be a waiter/waitress that they'd enjoy serving people food so much that they'd do it just for the sake of it?

I'm sure there would be drones to pick the grapes.
As for waiting tables, true, not everyone would want to do that, maybe it's a job with a high staff turnover. I waited tables as a teenager for work experience it isn't a long term career even in this day and age.
Having said that some people probably do enjoy it for the social aspect.

 

[AnubisGuard]

I'm sure there would be drones to pick the grapes.
As for waiting tables, true, not everyone would want to do that, maybe it's a job with a high staff turnover. I waited tables as a teenager for work experience it isn't a long term career even in this day and age.
Having said that some people probably do enjoy it for the social aspect.

Trouble is we never see drones or robots or whatever doing that kind of work in Star Trek.

The level of automation required to have a money-free society is never reflected on screen. Bottom line is, there's just no way to make the Star Trek economy work as depicted, because it was never designed to be practical. It's 50 years of a dozen different creative teams throwing random ideas out there. Personally, I think it's a waste of time to try and make it make sense.

 

[Lightning]

Or if you just want to be a painter and trade an original, hand painted picture on canvas you can trade it for a bottle of traditionally made wine or a piece of handmade furniture.

What if the Winemaker doesn't like your art style?

 

[AnubisGuard]

Imagine an interstellar civilization operating on the barter system.

 

[Mottrex]

Tribbles... Where they really all that Trouble?



This and the ep where Spock mind melded with those creatures that looked like Giant pizzas were my favourite episodes as a child, I should know the name but can't..

 

[Cephus]

Tribbles... Where they really all that Trouble?



This and the ep where Spock mind melded with those creatures that looked like Giant pizzas were my favourite episodes as a child, I should know the name but can't..

Hortas.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

It still falls apart when you really look into it because while there ould be things people would do simply for the enjoyment or love of it, but not everything that would support some of these endeavors would be that desirable. In the case of running a vineyard, who's going to pick the grapes? While it might be enjoyable to actually and/or run a vineyard but you can't tell me that there's that many people out there are that many people out there who would enjoy picking grapes so much that they'd do it for the sake of it. While there are no profits to be concerned about, without a certain minimum number of people to work as pickers there's going to be a lot of wasted grapes at the vineyard. Then there's restaurants, you're going to tell me that there's people out there whose treated ambition in life is to be a waiter/waitress that they'd enjoy serving people food so much that they'd do it just for the sake of it?

Yes, even as a life long devotee of Star Trek, I think that the “soft communism” of a future in which money is no longer a driving force for achievement would require a profound shift in a psychology that has been in-place since humans walked upright.

I don’t see convincing evidence that we are headed that direction in the near future…as a matter of fact, with our current navel gazing, self-obsessed narcissism, we seem to be headed the other direction.

We are still a child-like and primitive people whose technology grows faster than our societal intelligence and I think it will take some profound crucible to grow in any real sense.

Perhaps in a millennia, or more, we may be closer to Roddenberry’s future, but perhaps not by the 23rd, 24th, or 25th centuries.

Boy, what a “downer” of a post…

 

[Strikerkc]

...Boy, what a “downer” of a post…

Eh, I wouldn't sweat it. technology and the ability to provide for people grows every year. better to be on a trajectory where our greatest threat is ennui and boredom than starvation. Star trek is a destination; a complete "perfect" whole, that we then get to see people venture out from and experience "not perfection" from. A complete and perfect existence is a fictional thing; and if perfection is false, then truth is the journey towards a perfect destination. The destination often changes, but it's the journey towards it that is the constant. Reality is the incremental improvement towards the perfect world of star trek, with the required adjustments in aim and goal as we grow and change our understanding of the "perfect" destination.

Tribbles... Where they really all that Trouble?...

I feel it was more about needing to keep a clear head while flying and maintaining an intergalactic warship.

Tribbles would probably be a good add on option at the 23rd century all inclusive resorts; "The Diamond package comes with unlimited blue and green alcohols, private jacuzzi, and priority room service. And if you upgrade to the Dilithium package, you get all that, and the suite is stocked with tribbles..."

 

[Mottrex]

Tribbles would probably be a good add on option at the 23rd century all inclusive resorts; "The Diamond package comes with unlimited blue and green alcohols, private jacuzzi, and priority room service. And if you upgrade to the Dilithium package, you get all that, and the suite is stocked with tribbles..."

Sounds better than the Disney Halcian Starcruiser nightmare...

I'm in!

 

[Mottrex]

Hortas.