Scratch Building Hands And Mask?

[reptilelover95]

I've been searching the forums for two weeks now, but have not found answers to the questions I have about making hands and a mask from scratch. I've seen plenty of tutorials on painting, but have found none that detail step by step the process of actually making them. I don't want to do the wool glove one because to me it doesn't look realistic enough. I have a very, VERY basic idea of how people scratch build masks (making a clay head and molding it and then making a cast if I'm not mistaken), but I've never sculpted anything even remotely like that in my entire life so I could use some pointers. As for the mask, I'm going to be trying to make it animatronic like in the video in one of the stickies (I'll link it here so people know which one I'm talking about), but I have no idea how I would actually include it in the mask since I've never done anything with animatronics or costuming before this.

Here's the animatronic video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFM4EqLoaKQ

I'm not going to buy a mask or hands, because I am making my predator a custom character. I also will not settle for anything less than absolute perfection, so I need the best tips to make the sculpts completely flawless to the last detail (ie just as high quality as the ones in the movies). I know it may sound extreme, but there's absolutely no point in spending the amount of money that needs to be spent for this if I'm not going to have the highest quality costume humanly possible. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[reptilelover95]

Since I haven't received any sort of advice whatsoever on this, I decided to attempt to message a bunch of people and luckily got one of my two questions answered. I still have no idea how I'm going to do the mask though, but that will be amongst the last things I do since I still have to come up with a custom design for an elite Predator.

I'm hoping to make 3 pairs of moulds for the hands - 1 pair using my own hands, another using the person who helped me airbrushing, and a third using the mannequin's hands/arms. The goal for the latter two would be to make hands that I could sell to make a bit of money since I don't have the time to do a regular job with school and homework (plus, I'm thinking of getting a pair of CBB baby green anacondas soon, so having a bit of cash coming in wouldn't be a bad thing ). Any recommendations for what to use to make the casts and what type of clay to sculpt out of? Also, for the ones that I'd be selling, I could use some recommendations for what Predator designs are the most popular - the ones for myself will be of my own design that isn't from any of the movies, but since most other people seem to make their costumes based off a specific Pred in the movies I'd like to make them modeled after whichever ones are the most popular. I'm not doing this just for the money - if I was I wouldn't be making a costume for myself. It's just that this whole thing is going to be expensive, and it would also give me a way to make money without sacrificing my grades.

 

[DMTDeadpool]

Just a little tip, from one sculpting newb to another. 

When sculpting a mask or hands, pretty much anything. Use an armature. This will lower the amount of clay you need to use. I got 12.5 KG of air dry, nylon impregnated clay It works well for me, and is pretty cheap too. Remember to cover it between sessions. Put a bag under the armature so you can cover the bottom too, I didn't and the neck of mine dried. Use several layers of plastic bags and a light misting with a spray bottle with water will keep the clay moist and workable for the entirety of your sculpt.


The 12.5 KG has done me for my mask, I have used about 10.5 KG so far in my sculpt, and I have done the majority of the head. A little more work and I will be finished the basic sculpt and started on the detail. 

 

[reptilelover95]

Thank you! I actually just finished applying permawet to the skin of my costume, so the next step will be the hands, although I'll have to wait and see if I can get the necessary supplies for Christmas/Hannukah since I spent a significant amount of money on a female carpet python to hopefully breed to my male. I gotta figure out what kind of design I want to do for the hands, though. I have to make sure they're not too detailed texture-wise since the main part of my skin is just an airbrushed zentai with a coat of permawet, but they do need to look well-made. I would use the hands from the zentai but there are far too many seam lines that I'd need to cover.

Any recommendations on what I should use to make the mould and casts? I'm thinking of doing the final gloves in silicone since from what I understand it's a bit more flexible than latex.

 

[DMTDeadpool]

First, for the hands, get some rubber gloves, and put them on. Use tape around the palm and back of the hand, to keep the form of your hand. Next add in some plaster of paris into the glove and let set. Remove the glove, you will probably have to cut it off, and viola one hand armature to work on. Also, it will be your hand, so will fit perfectly. 

When you start sculpting the design will come, though most predator hands are the same, or very similar, it is mostly add-ons, such as P1's "fingerless glove" style. 

Use more plaster of paris for the mold making process, gradually building it up in layers till you have encased the whole sculpt, (remember to have spacers, so you can separate the mold halves) There are some pretty good molding and casting tutorials on here.

As for the casting, well, anything suitable for the job. If you want it to last, you will have to pay that little bit extra for good quality latex / silicon and respective curing agents.

I might also suggest, you can get some thin cotton gloves, you might find some in the dermatology section of your pharmacy. You can use these under the latex / silicon gloves, to act as a barrier between the glove and your skin. 

Hopes any of my rambling makes sense. Happy sculpting.

DMTDeadpool

P.S. I have a topic in this very board, a step by step huntorial of my own mask being sculpted. You can watch me struggle from the comfort of your own computer chair. Ha ha ha

 

[reptilelover95]

Thanks for the advice. I searched for several hours to try to find casting/molding tutorials that were simply enough for me to follow, but alas I didn't find any. I don't know what spacers are, or what plaster of paris is to be honest. I essentially have zero artistic skills. I was thinking of making a mold of my hands in alginate and then making a resin cast of that, and then making a mold of the sculpted hand. Problem is from what I understand, in order to remove the mold from the cast with alginate you have to cut up the mold, which I wouldn't want to do since I'd want to be able to make another cast if something were to happen to them. Honestly I could probably use the hands on the mannequin I used to mount the skin on as a base to sculpt on, but then the hands wouldn't be as good of a fit. Heck, if someone could give me a specific "grocery list" of things that I'd need to buy, I could get them as a Christmas/Hannukah gift and then I could continue working. I think after a little bit of doing it hands-on, I'll get the hang of it.

Also, for the mask, I was thinking of incorporating a texture similar to that of the Hairy Bush Viper, but I'd like to know what other people think about how that might look. Here's a picture of a hairy bush viper so you know what I'm talking about:

 

[DMTDeadpool]

You know the stuff you get as a cast, when someone breaks an arm, or leg. That is bandage impregnated with plaster of paris. The plaster of paris is a very fine powder, when mixed with water forms a very hard (almost stone-like) solid. It is used to create the "negative" in molds, even down to the little details. The spacers I mentioned are little slivers of metal, plastic, or similar that is placed where the mold will separate, all the way round the sculpt. If you don't have these your mold will be impossible to break in half to get your mask or gloves out. Well, you could use a hammer and chisel. But you risk destroying your mold.

Unfortunately, it is very hard to get a mold cast without damage to the clay sculpt. Especially with the mandibles of the predator mask. If you do it right, you may salvage quite a bit of the sculpt. But do not expect to pop out the clay in the exact condition you put it in. 

The easiest way I know to make the hand armature is the glove method I mentioned above. Remember if you do use it, to use the tape or the glove will bulge out in the palm and back of the hand when you pour the plaster in. Another tip. With plaster of Paris, the hotter the water you use to mix it, the faster it will set. 

Here is a suggested shopping/scavenger list.

A book on sculpting: Really helpful reference 
Sculpting Tools: Be sure you get a good selection of varying tips. Modified popcicle sticks are good too.
Clay: Depending on the budget. Really good clay is expensive, but there are cheaper clays that are suitable. 
Plaster of paris: Mold making. You will need quite a lot of this.
Latex: Hard to make a latex mask without this.
Fimo: Comes in little blocks, this is used for the teeth.
Texture stamps: These can be many things. Bits of leather, cloth, bark, anything that will leave an impression on the clay when you press the stamp on it.
Reference Pictures: Pictures of predators in every angle. Have them all round your work area. 
Measuring tools: A flexible tape measure a sturdy ruler and a compass will be invaluable.
Spacers: Good option is to use soda cans. Cut off the top and bottom, then cut down the length of the can to get a sheet of metal you can use to make a gap between mold halves. 

That is all I can think of right now. Pretty much everything can be found online on Ebay or Amazon or many other online sellers of these products. You could also support your local community and buy from a local shop. 

Some things on the list you will not need for a while yet, like the mold making stuff, the latex, ect. Get some sculpting tools, clay and plaster of paris and play about with sculpting first. You might not take to sculpting, or it may take weeks, or months before you are satisfied with the results. Don't rush it, take your time and take regular breaks. Cover your sculpt when not working on it. 

 

[reptilelover95]

By "reusable mold", I meant making a mold of the sculpt, and being able to use the resulting mold more than once so that if I were to lose or severely damage the hands all I'd have to do is get some more of the casting medium and cast another copy rather than sculpting an entirely new model. I'm not working on the mask anytime soon since I don't have any concept art to work off of, so the hands are really my primary concern. I'm grateful for your help, though. Hopefully I'll be able to get this done soon!

 

[DMTDeadpool]

The mold will be reusable  

If you have a two part mold it should last you for quite a few castings. Depending on how well you look after it. If you are casting something flexible, like latex or silicone you will have no problems re using your mold  aplenty. If you are making a cast of something solid, like a  bust, then you might have trouble getting the mold to give up your treasures. 

 

[troggs]

I'm not an experienced sculptor by any means, but here are some pointers I've learned along the way:

To make a reusable mould it will probably be worth spending on something like Ultracal, this is much harder than plaster of paris so will last you longer.

For sculpting, oil based clay doesn't dry out but is harder to work, whereas something like WED clay is easier to work, but must be covered and kept moist when not being worked on.

As to the spacers you seem confused about, have a look at this from a lair member http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hYA0zV4qI - it's a bit on the large side compared to hands, but it will explain the process to you. It would probably also be worth having a look at other moulding and casting sites, such as Smooth On.
You might be able to use WED clay without spacers on something small like hands, I'm not sure.

Latex or silicone? Latex is cheaper, but you must allow for shrinkage when making your sculpt, silicone doesn't shrink, but is more expensive, plus you have to buy the special paints for it.

Take your time, this isn't a process that you can jump straight into, keep on researching it till you find what's the best option for you.

 

[wonko]

I didn't know much concerning molding and casting before becoming a member here.  I found tons of useful info on YouTube.  Specifically, Brick in the Yard has some outstanding stuff that's definitely worth checking out.  Another great source that will have all info you could ever need or want is the Stan Winston School of Character Arts.  It's worth the cost, and the info is priceless.  When it comes to specifics, Google is your best friend.  Remember, the lair isn't the only place to find the info you're seeking.  Time spent researching will not only answer the questions you have, but also give you resources for future questions or problems you may run into.

I'm going to have to agree with Troggs on the plaster recommendation.  Plaster of paris has no where near the strength of Ultracal (or even Hydrocal for that matter) and won't last nearly as long.  If you're wanting many copies out of a mold, you're not going to get them using pop.  I have very limited experience with WED clay, so can't say much about it, but I can and do recommend looking into Monster clay.  It's what I use and absolutely love it.  Since you're just starting out, try using different types of clay if you can to see what you like.  

Brian   

 

[reptilelover95]

EDIT: I decided that I'd just buy a set of smaller Predator hands from the Monster Room, so now I need to focus on figuring out a design for the mask, and since I've got the hands covered I will also focus my attention on the feet. For the mask, I want to do an elite Predator, and I'm going to try to replicate the animatronic stuff as I saw in the AMAZING Topknot build (props to alphatech666 for doing such a JAW-DROPPING job on everything). I still need to come up with some customizations that will give it its own distinct look as a unique character, in the same way that the P2 mask and P1 mask look different even though both of them are Predators. For the feet, the main thing I'm going to need to figure out is how exactly I want to go about doing them. I've seen a couple people's builds, but I have a particular set of requirements that the feet will need to meet and I'm not sure that those products would be suitable. I need something that will act like a shoe (ie I lift my heel up while wearing them, the "heel" part of the costume foot also lifts). That way it'll be easier to balance, and it will look more natural. Plus, since I will be sparring in this costume I will need to be able to shift my weight quickly without losing balance. I also have to figure out a way to make the "shoe" on the actual predator foot (I don't know exactly what they're called - I mean the things the Predators wear on THEIR feet) somehow have a "stealthy" look to it. Part of me is thinking I could design it a bit like a tabi boot, with a split between the innermost toe and the rest of the toes, but I'm not sure.

Overall, I could really use some feedback.

Also, I'd really like someone to chime in and tell me what they think of my idea of using the bush viper scale texture on the predator mask somehow (there's a picture of one above). The other thing I was thinking of doing was simply using some of the patches of shed skin from my Nile monitor as "stamps" to press into the sculpt in places to give it a scaly look. Getting that kind of feedback is what I will need before I continue, because I cannot do any more with this costume until I feel good about what I want the final product to look like. 

 

[DMTDeadpool]

I think it is an ace idea. The predators already have a reptilian look to them and remember, this is your mask. Whatever you want it to look you can have it look. The main features of the predator, the dome head, mandibles and crown are the important features to incorporate. Anything else is all you.

My advice... Go for it! 

 

[troggs]

You say you are going to be sparring in this costume? If you are making a full predator costume, bear the following in mind -

Visibility and hearing are severely limited in a pred mask,  your eyes are set back  from the outside of the mask, and you have foam in the mask to support the latex and keep it sitting on your head properly.

If you have a full latex skin like most people, you will be sweating buckets once you're in it, remember you'll have latex hands, gauntlets, shoes, armour etc, you'll be basically covered in a non breathable skin.

I have enough trouble just walking around the house in mine, it takes a while to get used to moving in the full set up.

I'm not trying to put you off by any means, but have a good long think about what you want to be able to do in the costume.

 

[reptilelover95]

Troggs, my main skin is actually not made of latex. It's a lycra bodysuit, and it's actually VERY comfortable to wear. I've also got a custom armor design that I uploaded a picture of onto my WIP blog for this suit, and the armor is going to be covering a lot less area than normal pred armor due to my character's backstory. Depending on how well everything works, I will either spar in the full suit, or in just the skin/gloves/feet and armor, since the main objective is to develop a unique fighting style that maximizes the effectiveness of the various melee weapons at a Yautja's disposal. I'll be starting with just the wristblades, and depending on how that goes I may make replicas of other Yautja melee weapons such as the combi stick to see how those would best be used. As I've said before, I have done a considerable amount of training with many types of blades and weapons, so I'm not some kid just fooling around with weapons to be "cool."

If anyone reading this would like to draw a picture for me based on a description I give of the face I'm thinking of making for my Predator, please let me know - I can't start any work on this thing until I've got that. I found blank blueprints for bio helmets from the various movies, and I decided to use Wolf's helmet as the base, but since mine is considerably different I simply traced the basic outline and shapes on Wolf's helmet onto a blank sheet of paper, and all I have to do is draw in the features I want. Here's what I'm thinking, I'd love to have input.

So, I'm thinking above and between the eye holes I could have little protrusions that look like the scales on the end of a rhino viper's snout:

For the dome part of the helmet, I was thinking I could model it sort of like the hood of a cobra, with bands across the inner surface area and little scales on the rod things that go around it (I don't know what the proper terms are). Finally, around the bottom of the helmet across the sides and a little ways up the little face plate, I'd have little holes that are designed to look like the heat pits of a reticulated python (I have two as pets that I can look at if I need a living subject for reference).

I might emit the cobra bit since too much detail would probably be a bad thing, but I DEFINITELY want to do the heat pits since it also connects to the fact that Predators see in infrared.

 

[reptilelover95]

I just got the hands in yesterday afternoon, but I couldn't find anything to trim down the excess latex so I haven't done anything yet. I was thinking of using scissors initially, but someone told me a craft knife would be a better bet so that's probably what I'll end up doing. Hopefully I'll be able to airbrush them this weekend.

Here's a pic:

I just hope the level of detail and overall texture of the hands doesn't clash too much with the skin since they're two very different materials, and since the skin is just an airbrushed zentai it doesn't have any actual 3D texture.

I still need ideas for the Predator face though. I want it to have a unique look to it... I want it to have character; I want it to "tell a story" in the same way that the face/makeup of an actor in a movie gives you a sense of their character before they even talk or do anything. I don't want to make my character look "disfigured" (no missing eye or broken tusks or anything), but I definitely want him to look like he's seen some serious ****. I figure since he doesn't use active camo or a plasma caster (meaning he takes his prey and anything between him and it using only his cunning and skills with melee weapons), he'd have had to develop his fighting/sneaking ability to the point of near-perfection. I believe that would mean he'd be good enough to avoid making a serious enough mistake to receive a debilitating injury. I just have to decide what kind of scars they should be, ie what type of wound the scar was from. I'm actually thinking of having one set of scratches being from a xenomorph's hand claws, but I'd need to know the measurements between each of their fingers so I could make the marks accurate. I'd also like to have scars be from a variety of prey species, but I can't think of any other wound types that I could put there. Ideas would be helpful. Quite frankly I've been a bit disappointed as to the lack of feedback I've gotten on my concepts - I've found this site very useful for the details of actually making the costume but I haven't really had any luck getting what I really need: specific feedback/suggestions for my character.

 

[cmetzger]

Ill be putting up my left foot with incorporated sandal this weekend. My post is "Detailed Tutorial: Flexible Polyfoam P1 Head With Poly Skin."  Link to it is here   cmetzger