PL Enterprise A

[neosporing]

<div class='quotetop'>(judgedredd @ Oct 22 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]1342826[/snapback]</div>

i am in the same boat as you mate i love the A Ent and i have built the ERTL version but i have basically hand painted a few grey areas onto it it looks ok but with the size of the polar lights i have purchased the vinyl aztec sheets and will dig my airbrush out to see if i can get a bit closer to it [/b]

keep us apraised of your progress judgedread.


I've got a kit sitting on the shelf... awaiting attention, haven't made the aztec pattern purchase yet. I've seen many sucess threads over at hobbytalk, I'd be interested in hearing more of what happened to you lynn...i'll take your saucer aztec stickers if you haven't actually burned them :angel ...

I was wondering myself, if it is worth the $. I've seen some paint coats build up along the stickers and leave some rough caked on edges... is that why you threw them out lynn?

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

<div class='quotetop'>(neosporing @ Oct 22 2006, 11:48 PM) [snapback]1343126[/snapback]</div>

I've seen many sucess threads over at hobbytalk, I'd be interested in hearing more of what happened to you lynn...i'll take your saucer aztec stickers if you haven't actually burned them :angel ...

I was wondering myself, if it is worth the $. I've seen some paint coats build up along the stickers and leave some rough caked on edges... is that why you threw them out lynn?
[/b]

Sorry, they too burned up when I tossed the whole mess.

Paint build up on the edges is nothing, that can be sanded down and taken care of easy.

They are just plain too darn sticky and the viynl sticker material they used is not designed to do what they are using it for, plain and simple. If they made them using frisket paper that is desinged for such things, then they would be fantastic.

I tossed them because not matter what I did to "detack" (making them less stickey) the stickers, using the instructions guide lines and my own ideas, to keep them from fully sticking to the paint underneith failed. If by chance you accidently fully pressed them down going against the instructions guild lines, you were literally screwed. I even tried using flat paint to try and not get them to stick, because flat surfaces are not great for sticking things on, that even failed.


Most of the time when I tried to get the patterns off I would have to literally nick, dig, or gouge them off thus destroying the paint undernieth.
No matter how thick or thin my paint coat was, no matter how "detacked" they were, they are just a bitch to get off without ruining the paint. I ended up with 100's of little touch up areas that just looked terrible when I was done because I had to nick, scrape, and gouge to get the darn things off.

I would imagine these so called success stories of these things are minimal at best and not the norm with the average joe population using them.

Save your money.

Lynn

 

[judgedredd]

Hi were they the black vinyl ones as sold by federation models? they are the ones i have if they are that bad i might skip them.
did you leave the paint to harden before applying them?
cheers




<div class='quotetop'>(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Oct 23 2006, 11:46 AM) [snapback]1343241[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(neosporing @ Oct 22 2006, 11:48 PM) [snapback]1343126[/snapback]

I've seen many sucess threads over at hobbytalk, I'd be interested in hearing more of what happened to you lynn...i'll take your saucer aztec stickers if you haven't actually burned them :angel ...

I was wondering myself, if it is worth the $. I've seen some paint coats build up along the stickers and leave some rough caked on edges... is that why you threw them out lynn?
[/b]

Sorry, they too burned up when I tossed the whole mess.

Paint build up on the edges is nothing, that can be sanded down and taken care of easy.

They are just plain too darn sticky and the viynl sticker material they used is not designed to do what they are using it for, plain and simple. If they made them using frisket paper that is desinged for such things, then they would be fantastic.

I tossed them because not matter what I did to "detack" (making them less stickey) the stickers, using the instructions guide lines and my own ideas, to keep them from fully sticking to the paint underneith failed. If by chance you accidently fully pressed them down going against the instructions guild lines, you were literally screwed. I even tried using flat paint to try and not get them to stick, because flat surfaces are not great for sticking things on, that even failed.


Most of the time when I tried to get the patterns off I would have to literally nick, dig, or gouge them off thus destroying the paint undernieth.
No matter how thick or thin my paint coat was, no matter how "detacked" they were, they are just a bitch to get off without ruining the paint. I ended up with 100's of little touch up areas that just looked terrible when I was done because I had to nick, scrape, and gouge to get the darn things off.

I would imagine these so called success stories of these things are minimal at best and not the norm with the average joe population using them.

Save your money.

Lynn
[/b][/quote]

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

<div class='quotetop'>(judgedredd @ Oct 23 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]1343438[/snapback]</div>

Hi were they the black vinyl ones as sold by federation models? they are the ones i have if they are that bad i might skip them.
did you leave the paint to harden before applying them?
cheers
[/b]

Those are the exact ones.. I got mine from CultmanTV thought, same item.
My base coats sat two to three weeks, so it should have cured and hardened fine.

If I remember right your supposed to remove the stickers while the paint is still just dry to the touch and even slightly tacky just like you would do when you mask with masking tape.

Your only ask for trouble if you remove masking tape when the paint is fully dry because there is more danger in paint damage.

If you let the paint fully dry, especailly with those stuipd masks, your even more screwed..

Lynn

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

If I get another one, and I still may, I will just paint it white with a pearl coat and add the color tones to the cetrain areas, but I will do none of the Aztech pattern.

It will look just as good without it.

Lynn

 

[judgedredd]

i thinking i might go the same way


<div class='quotetop'>(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Oct 24 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1343821[/snapback]</div>

If I get another one, and I still may, I will just paint it white with a pearl coat and add the color tones to the cetrain areas, but I will do none of the Aztech pattern.

It will look just as good without it.

Lynn
[/b]

 

[neosporing]

<div class='quotetop'>(judgedredd @ Oct 24 2006, 08:13 AM) [snapback]1343857[/snapback]</div>

i thinking i might go the same way


<div class='quotetop'>(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Oct 24 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1343821[/snapback]

If I get another one, and I still may, I will just paint it white with a pearl coat and add the color tones to the cetrain areas, but I will do none of the Aztech pattern.

It will look just as good without it.

Lynn
[/b]

[/b][/quote]

lynn did you primer your parts before laying down your base coat?

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

<div class='quotetop'>(neosporing @ Oct 25 2006, 07:25 PM) [snapback]1344930[/snapback]</div>

lynn did you primer your parts before laying down your base coat?
[/b]

Yes....

Lynn

 

[judgedredd]

Hi here is the response from the guy who makes the templates he is very helpful.

Robert,
No problem, I like having feedback, it keeps me up to date with how the templates are performing.
as for sealing between coats, I'm like you. my first coat is always a good, cheap grey primer in the big can from Walmart. (Krylon or the Wal-Mart house brand)

since , in the end, you only really see the final finish coat, what you do underneath will be covered by the top coat, so I always use a gloss finish between every step in the painting process. And several light coats is always better than a single heavy coat. If i use any of the metallizer brand paints, then I use the metallizer sealer that's made to go with it.

after i've painted my layers and put on the last gloss coat, then I put on the decals (which stick better to a glossy surface) the last thing I do after any hand detail painting and decals and eveything has dried is to apply a light coating of a flat or satin finish to take away the glossy look (it also seals in the decals, but be sure the top coat is laquer based if you are using aftermarket decals. )

hope this helps,
Lou


<div class='quotetop'>(Lynn TXP 0369 @ Oct 26 2006, 11:44 AM) [snapback]1345153[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(neosporing @ Oct 25 2006, 07:25 PM) [snapback]1344930[/snapback]

lynn did you primer your parts before laying down your base coat?
[/b]

Yes....

Lynn
[/b][/quote]

 

[venkman71]

Oh fer CRAP'S sake.

Are you serious, Lynn?

I've been prepping that ****** saucer for painting for a week and the Cult TVman templates arrived a few days ago. I've been chomping at the bit to start laying the aztec templates on and now I hear this?

I wouldn't mind but I tried several alternate methods. I tried cutting my own stencils, there was lift up problems, so I backed the stencils with low-tack frisket, re-cut the pattern, and it still wasn't great.

So I tried simply cutting the pattern straight onto the frisket, and I had paint pull up-problems.

Then I tried lightly cutting the pattern after applying the frisket to the saucer section and then I had exacto lines in the paint where I cut the frisket even though I did my best to apply very careful and low pressure. :angry

I thought that the vynil stencils would be my saving grace. :cry

Dear God in Hooters Heaven what does it take to build a good looking starship.?

Has anyone had a good experience with the vynil stencils?

 

[neosporing]

<div class='quotetop'>(venkman71 @ Oct 26 2006, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1345372[/snapback]</div>

Oh fer CRAP'S sake.

Dear God in Hooters Heaven what does it take to build a good looking starship.?

Has anyone had a good experience with the vynil stencils? [/b]

here is a link to the thread over at hobby talk with a step by step formula that seems to be the current favorite over at hobbytalk.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.p...26&page=1&pp=15

On the second page i asked directly about the issues raised here and the poster promtly replied... I'm guessing it is the type of paints the poster is using

Quote: Originally Posted by neosporing Raist, did you use the black templates found over at culttvmans? Share your technique for removing the templates without pealing up or poking the paint underneath. I've done a search on this site and i can't find anyone experiencing any problems with the tempates at all. Over on another site, i've read many complaints about the templates being too sticky. I wondering if those templates and the ones being used around here are different? (less tacky) The people who had no sucess insisted that they let the paint cure for days before applying the templates...I'm asuming they primered...but i didn't ask..(i should) Furthermore, they said that they nicked their undercoat trying to remove the templates. Can you share your expert technique for safely removing templates?

thanks.

Hi Neo

I am not sure of any expert technique, but I can sure share with you my aztec process. I used the templates availabe from Aztec Dummies. I do believe Cult sells them. I first primed all my parts with 131S DuPont automotive acrylic lacquer primer. IMHO, one of the best primers to use. It can be laid down to a point that will not hide the most subtle and delicate of surface detail. I allow this to set for about a week. I then lay down my base coat. Testors Acrylic flat white. I allow this to set for another week. I then begin to apply my templates. I have never found the need to make them less tacky in the least. I apply them straight off the waxed paper. I do not apply any pressure to them to stick to the surface. I then spray my pearl color, wait a good 15-20 minutes, and then begin to remove the templates. This is done very slowly and very carefully. Perhaps it is because I work so slowly that I have never had any issues with the templates removing any of my undercoating. I use my finger nail when ever I can, but I do at times use an exacto with the tip broken off for the more stubborn ones.

I made my own templates for the secondary pattern which work just like the walker brass templates. I cut them out of thin styrene.

Hope this helps

i'm going to try using the same paints that raist described and see if i have any luck

and here is a link of all his photos to get you completely depressed as i am...<sigh> :cry

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/Raist3001/

 

[venkman71]

Thanks a million Neosporing. I really appreciat the help.

Those pics both inspire and depress me. LOL.

Good gravy, what am I getting myself into. :eek

 

[vaderman1701]

Sean,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Star Trek models... :confused


Scott

 

[judgedredd]

Yes if painting it wasnt bad enough the lighting is a nightmare


<div class='quotetop'>(vaderman1701 @ Oct 28 2006, 06:10 PM) [snapback]1346554[/snapback]</div>

Sean,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Star Trek models... :confused


Scott
[/b]

 

[venkman71]

<div class='quotetop'>(vaderman1701 @ Oct 28 2006, 05:10 PM) [snapback]1346554[/snapback]</div>

Sean,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Star Trek models... :confused


Scott
[/b]

I swear,....it's a whole new ball of wax from throwing the old AMT/Ertl kits together when I was fifteen.

Doing it right seems like a six month road of pain. Since I posted above, I've already started on a second kit because I screwed the first one up so bad. I'm now using the first one I got to test paint/Aztec theories and apply the ones that work to the new one.

That's an expensive freakin' "practice piece" BTW,....I got it the day the likts finally hit here in my town and at the time I considered it the best $65 I ever spent. After testing paints on it to the point where I had to acetone as much out as I could, scrape off the rest and re-scribe the panel lines it looked like Joan Rivers after bad facelift number 156. :cry

I sucked it up, and went out to buy the kit again. Thankfully, it's come down in price.

Maybe I'll turn the first one into the ruined 1701 from Search for Spock :rolleyes

 

[Clerval]

[/quote]


I swear,....it's a whole new ball of wax from throwing the old AMT/Ertl kits together when I was fifteen.

Doing it right seems like a six month road of pain.
[/quote]

You know, this line in particular interests me.. not because I entirely disagree, but wonder how it is that we can look at this hobby such a way (and let's face it, we all do from time to time...) but keep on going, keep on working on those skills, keep pushing and hoping that the next one will be better. Eternal optimism in the face of eternal truth (we all kinda suck at it...) ?

Reminds me of one of Rockwell's great observations about himself; that he always started every painting thinking it would be his best. He'd do his studies, get his reference, draw up roughs and a final graphite or charcoal piece, transfer it, start to paint... and boy it started to cook, really come along. Then, all of a sudden... it became work. He'd made all the fun and rewarding decisions earlier, now he had to follow through. He'd find that his skills weren't qute what he hoped. The deadline loomed. He'd rush, change things, drop things out, then finish the piece (somehow), resigned to its mediocrity, and send it off. Then... a new commission, a new hope... and off he went, ready to paint his best ever.

I hope this isn't a road of pain, but that you get a hell of a lot more out of it than a good model....

 

[Hand Solo]

Rockwell aside...and I think we ALL suffer from that syndrome to an extent...the best advice I have is just to...

Do it. DO it. DO IT.

Just do it.

 

[venkman71]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

and boy it started to cook, really come along. Then, all of a sudden... it became work. [/b]

Boy oh boy does that ever ring true.

I actualy draw for a living so I can specifically relate to that point of view.

I've been on this damn thing for two days straight and all I've managed to do it paint the bridge three times and coat the saucer in pearl white, (which actually looks nice). :confused

All the while I'm thinking,....When did I become this meticulous, (anal retentive)?

BTW,....as "big" as this model is,....the detail on that bridge is still a b.tch to paint. On a scale of 1-10 on the "happy with it" meter, I'm giving mine a six,....but I know if I don't stop and simply move on, Murphy's law says I'm gonna screw it up. :rolleyes

 

[venkman71]

UPDATE.

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Personally, I would never use those damn Aztech dummy patterns.
I actually wonder what the success ratio is for those stupid things, not too good I imagine.

I had nothing but problems with them using their tips and my own ideas and I may as well have burned a $50 on the spot.

I ended up tossing the whole kit including the the rest of the patterns into my works burn pit because I got so frusterated with them, and that was just the hull.... I couldn't imagine what kind of problems I would had with the saucer.
I literally burned a $100 bill on that one.

NEVER Again.

Lynn[/b]

Lynn, (and Judgedredd as well if you haven't gotten your templates yet)....FYI,....I finally had some success after a lot of trial and error as well as ruining the first refit kit I bought.

So I had to run out and get a new one, (which has dropped considerably in price where I am, BTW) and dig into that armed with the costly knowledge from the first one. After screwing around with my own templates/stencils etc. I finally found something that works. I sprayed the to saucer flat white, let it dry and hit it with a whole can, (several passes that is) of Tamiya Clear pearl coat.

I've heard a lot of debate over pearl white/ flat white etc. and I have to say, the pearl coat over white looks different than simply using pearl white. I dunno why, I dunno how, but it just looks good.

By accident more than anyting else, (work and a busy few days), I let it sit for a week while I worked periodically on the bridge for an hour or so every other day.

Finally, I applied the templates from Aztec dummy and any glimmer of hope I may have had thinking they are reuse went out the window when I saw how thin they actually were.

Took me HOURS and when I say hours I mean HOURS, to apply but when it was done,.....I hit all the exposed parts with flat white over the very dry pearl.

This is what I'm convinced of as far as process. Pearl and or gloss over a flat white base takes so long to dry you get all of those paint-build up/seeping under the templates problem just by nature of the liquid taking longer to dry.

The flat over pearl, however dries almost instantly so you don't have that problem.

(I apologize to you masters out there that are reading this and thinking, "well, DUH.")

Anyway,....flat over pearl, let it sit for about twenty minutes, and started peeling the templates up,....FYI, they take almost as long to remove as they do to apply and they come up in pieces. They stick to your fingers, the saucer, eachother,.....it's a pain in the ass but when it's all done, you get this.

Thought you guys would dig the info.

Have a good one.

Sean

 

[judgedredd]

That looks great so it was flat white first then pearl over top then mask then flat white over top?