Firefly Browncoat/Independents patch orientation?

[codered11343]

If this has been answered before, forgive me.

So there are lot of places to get patches from Firefly but I have been seeing something odd. Some places are showing patches with one point at the top and two at the bottom (right side up triangle), while others are showing it reversed (two points at the top and one at the bottom(upside down triangle))

Anyone know what the right orientation is? I think it is the right side up triangle but I have only seen small clips of Browncoats with patches.

 

[Invicta]

By far from an expert here so this isn't gospel. I've always thought it was triangle point up, as in your photo.

I'd like some definitive clarification as well.

**Edit**

After an image search It's 50% point up and 50% point down, so I'm confused.

 

[Epona_Rhi]

Do you own a copy of the Firefly Companion Volume One?

On Page 17 there's a picture taken from the pilot episode showing Mal and Zoe. Mal wears his coat and you can see that he has that patch on his shoulder and it is pointing up.
So I'm pretty sure the picture you postet first shows the right direction

/EDIT: On page 15 it can be seen too. Same direction.

 

[keelhauler]

wow this is an old topic. i think there is a discussion thread out there somewhere (on rpf or somewhere else.) I'm sure pennausamike can give you the full story.

but long story short, it was intended to be star point up, but some of the patches were sewn on upside down by mistake. some folks say how mal wears it should be canon, others say what was "intended" should be canon. so, not much help! :lol

 

[Yellowjacket]

Heh. Don't get me started.

 

[Bronson BB]

In the pilot, Mal rips a patch off of a dead officer to get the authorization codes off the back of the patch. When looking at the text, the patch is oriented point down. That was, I think, the INTENDED canon, and is the closest thing to definitive orientation as can be got.

The previously mentioned Firefly Companion Volume One, Page 17 shows this.
Also; www.fireflyarchive.com

But as various Independent Soldiers can bee seen wearing their patches both ways, (Mal and Zoe: point up, background soldiers: point down) technically BOTH ways are canon now.

Although, as a side note, the star was always blue. Black is wrong.

 

[codered11343]

In the pilot, Mal rips a patch off of a dead officer to get the authorization codes off the back of the patch. When looking at the text, the patch is oriented point down. That was, I think, the INTENDED canon, and is the closest thing to definitive orientation as can be got.

The previously mentioned Firefly Companion Volume One, Page 17 shows this.
Also; www.fireflyarchive.com

But as various Independent Soldiers can bee seen wearing their patches both ways, (Mal and Zoe: point up, background soldiers: point down) technically BOTH ways are canon now.

Although, as a side note, the star was always blue. Black is wrong.

Thanks for that link. I was confused because patch ARE shown in both orientations. My feeling is that the maybe the higher ranking soldiers wear the triangle pointed up so it would be easer is identify them in battle while the infantry wears then with the point down. Makes since to me.

I have only asked this question because I am going to sew that patch on to my leather motorcycle jacket and I will only have one shot at it. So I want to make sure its right.

 

[pennausamike]

AAAaaaaaAACK!
Yes, anything but sideways is "canon".
BUT...
The original designers' intent was to have the star point up, the triangle point down.
As BronsonBB notes, the writing on the back shows this intention quite clearly.
Also from the Firefly Companion volume, there were three different color schemes,
as the patch was meant to be a rank patch.
In view of the lack of any other Independents emblem-age,
the fans have accepted the blue-star-yellow-stripes-green-background as the Independents' symbol.

Another thing to consider is that QMx, who has access to both the Firefly and Serenity creative team members and developmental archives, has decided to create their merchandising with the star point up, triangle point down orientattion. So, if QMx comes out with some future Independent item you want, it'll be star point up, triangle point down.

Not specific to the 'verse, but consistant with military tradition, the star is always displayed point up in military applications.
The upside down star may also seen as a pentagram, with paganistic or satanic meaning.

For whatever it is worth, there were other "wardrobe malfunctions" on both the BDM Serenity and Firefly.
The Alliance patches had Chinese lettering on them, and I recall reading recently that THEY were sewn on upside down in the series, and the Geoff Mandel designed BDM triangle Alliance emblems were applied upside down on some of the purple-and-chrome Alliance troopers.

Soooo, it's whatever you like best, but the "evidence" weighs-in in favor of star point up, triangle point down.

Mike

 

[codered11343]

AAAaaaaaAACK!
Yes, anything but sideways is "canon".
BUT...
The original designers' intent was to have the star point up, the triangle point down.
As BronsonBB notes, the writing on the back shows this intention quite clearly.
Also from the Firefly Companion volume, there were three different color schemes,
as the patch was meant to be a rank patch.
In view of the lack of any other Independents emblem-age,
the fans have accepted the blue-star-yellow-stripes-green-background as the Independents' symbol.

Another thing to consider is that QMx, who has access to both the Firefly and Serenity creative team members and developmental archives, has decided to create their merchandising with the star point up, triangle point down orientattion. So, if QMx comes out with some future Independent item you want, it'll be star point up, triangle point down.

Not specific to the 'verse, but consistant with military tradition, the star is always displayed point up in military applications.
The upside down star may also seen as a pentagram, with paganistic or satanic meaning.

For whatever it is worth, there were other "wardrobe malfunctions" on both the BDM Serenity and Firefly.
The Alliance patches had Chinese lettering on them, and I recall reading recently that THEY were sewn on upside down in the series, and the Geoff Mandel designed BDM triangle Alliance emblems were applied upside down on some of the purple-and-chrome Alliance troopers.

Soooo, it's whatever you like best, but the "evidence" weighs-in in favor of star point up, triangle point down.

Mike

Very impressive collection. Thanks for the info. It seems that the orientation is really more up to person opinion and story interpretation.

 

[stromo]

Very informative thread, thanks. I'd been confused about this for some time.

Regarding which sleeve to put this on, is it always on the right-hand one, as demonstrated by Mal?

Anyone care to estimate how far down from the shoulder seam the top of the patch would be on his arm?

(small pic here (thanks Bronson BB): The Firefly Archive)

 

[Bronson BB]

Yes, always on the right.
On my Independent uniform, the patch is about 3 3/4 inches down from the seam.

Very informative thread, thanks. I'd been confused about this for some time.

Regarding which sleeve to put this on, is it always on the right-hand one, as demonstrated by Mal?

Anyone care to estimate how far down from the shoulder seam the top of the patch would be on his arm?

(small pic here (thanks Bronson BB): The Firefly Archive)

 

[stromo]

Yes, always on the right.
On my Independent uniform, the patch is about 3 3/4 inches down from the seam.

Thanks again, Bronson BB.

 

[ReaperCrewRebel]

Hey so I just came across this, but I did find some stuff on it, apparently NCOs and lower wear them facing upwards, officers wear them facing downwards

 

[pennausamike]

Hey so I just came across this, but I did find some stuff on it,
apparently NCOs and lower wear them facing upwards, officers wear them facing downwards

Once again, that is just fan-wank to try to explain why we see different orientation onscreen.
Bottom line, triangle point up is a seamstress error. There is no in-'verse continuity explanation; the different orientation was a production mistake.
So, for fans, either orientation is correct.
Triangle point down is correct for the planned design; either orientation is screen-accurate.

Mike
My Firefly/Serenity Collection:
http://fireflydvd.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3541