ESB Vader Helmet.

[AnsonJames]

Hello,

A few months back I managed to get hold of a fairly low number DP Deluxe Vader - it had been resprayed using fairly heavy two pac paint.
Although the paint job was nice the thumbnails under eyes were completely filled and much of the detail was pretty soft - after about two weeks of stripping and sanding the paint off I managed to get the faceplate pretty clean, what I'm in the process of doing now is making it into the most accurate possible ESB Vader that I can.
As you can see from the photos I've sharpened the cheek, nose and vent area - what I need now is some expert advice on details that need to be changed or improved.
Any kind of help from the experts would be much appreciated.

 

[The Manlet]

that looks great so far :thumbsup

 

[ob1al]

Great start - I would also lose the resin tusks and replace them with accurate aluminium ones.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Well, the nail marks or teardrops certainly need some sharpening up, deepening.
The nose slots could use a little squaring, from the look of it in the pictures - they appear soft and slightly rounded.

Since the DP DLX helmets are basically RotJ, there are a few things that needs to be altered to make it into an ESB.
First is the area where the cheeks meet the nose - on the RotJ the cheek goes all the way out to the edge of the nose, uninterrupted, whereas the ESB has indentations, where the cheek stops about half a centimeter from the edge of the nose.
Shown here on the MGM Vader:

Another feature that needs alteration is the chin vent, as the RotJ is slightly larger than the ESB version, but not by much. Hopefully we can get some really good meassurements on that size difference between the two from someone who has both styles of helmet, though, I would expect that it is no more than half a centimeter you need to fill - and that may even be too much. Only fill in the V part of the chin vent as the upper edge is exactly where it should be.
The ESB helmet has a less pronounced lower lip than the RotJ - in some cases it is sanded down so that it is level with the neck line, if you know what I mean, and again, in others it resembles the lower lip of the ANH, only even less sharp transition from flat area to mouth area...

Other than that there is only the dome mount, which is pure RotJ. The best thing to do is trim it down a bit and then perhaps add the right type of dome mount for the ESB, if you are going for absolute accuracy.

You can find some info on Darth Blade's site

Now... getting to the dome, which has the distinct RotJ center ridge. It will be quite difficult to reshape that into an ESB unless you sand it completely down and then use window rubber trim at the correct width and height with adhesive on one side.

TBH: it would be simpler to keep the RotJ look to this helmet than turn it into an ESB. Though, good luck with your project.

 

[AnsonJames]

NoHumorMan there is a sort of indentation on the helmet already...

Does this look correct?
Would you know the exact size of the chin vent?
Thanks -

Anson

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(AnsonJames @ Aug 24 2006, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1306266[/snapback]</div>

NoHumorMan there is a sort of indentation on the helmet already...
Does this look correct?
Would you know the exact size of the chin vent?
Thanks -
Anson
[/b]

Indeed there is. And yes, that looks pretty correct. Don't even think that it needs sharpening all that much.

Sorry, unfortunately no. Only got ANH and RotJ(Rubies Supreme) helmets myself - no ESB yet. Though, anyone with a 20th C helmet or face should be able to give you some good meassurements and degrees on angles, possibly LARGE pictures.

 

[AnsonJames]

Does anyone here have the measurements for the 20th Century chin vent?

 

[Simba]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 24 2006, 08:48 AM) [snapback]1306246[/snapback]</div>

First is the area where the cheeks meet the nose - on the RotJ the cheek goes all the way out to the edge of the nose, uninterrupted, whereas the ESB has indentations, where the cheek stops about half a centimeter from the edge of the nose.
Shown here on the MGM Vader:

[/b]

Hey NHM, question. The MGM photo indeed shows the paint going up to the edge of the nose, but it appears that the sculpture detail does not. It looks pretty much the same as his DPD helmet as far as the sculpt is concerned.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

Great start..... I love these progress threads as they can helpful to so many people in the future.

I own a cking (cast off the DP deluxe) and to make it ESB you will have to lower the dome a little bit and preferably extend it as well. The dome is a little short for ESB and sits a little high.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(Simba @ Aug 24 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]1306352[/snapback]</div>

Hey NHM, question. The MGM photo indeed shows the paint going up to the edge of the nose, but it appears that the sculpture detail does not. It looks pretty much the same as his DPD helmet as far as the sculpt is concerned.
[/b]

Yes, that detail is shared between the two helmets and the Elstree RotJ face, though, as have been mentioned before in other threads, then that is not "normal" for the RotJ screen used helmets, where the indentation has either been sanded away or lost of the casting process. The helmet with the indentations is only seen in one scene in RotJ - which could mean that it is a re-used ESB face or from the same mold as the ESB.? Unsubstantiated though.

I believe the MGM face has sharper features than the DP DLX face, though, it may be a likely source for those helmets. People more into the history of the DP helmets could possibly chime in.

<div class='quotetop'>(Darth Kahnt @ Aug 24 2006, 06:28 PM) [snapback]1306360[/snapback]</div>

Great start..... I love these progress threads as they can helpful to so many people in the future.
I own a cking (cast off the DP deluxe) and to make it ESB you will have to lower the dome a little bit and preferably extend it as well. The dome is a little short for ESB and sits a little high.
[/b]

I was under the impression that the DP DLX dome, especially in the lower run helmets, were not trimmed down and that that was a feature of the DP CA. Though... it could also be because the domeplacement so high on the face and at the wrong angle because of the dome mount that caused this oddity.

I don't think the flanges needs fixing, only the center ridge.

 

[RKW]

Probably the easiest things to fix would be to make the corner of the eye sharper on the right hand side and to add a bit more thickness to the roof of the mouth. The finger nail marks on the cheeks also need to be sharper.

 

[Darth Kahnt]

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 24 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]1306404[/snapback]</div>

I was under the impression that the DP DLX dome, especially in the lower run helmets, were not trimmed down and that that was a feature of the DP CA. Though... it could also be because the domeplacement so high on the face and at the wrong angle because of the dome mount that caused this oddity.

[/b]

I am under the impression that it was. As I mentioned, I have a cking and I can assure you the dome on that is smaller than my JB ANH V2. The ESB dome was a rework of an ANH dome and longer than the ROTJ dome (which was shortened to accomodate Bob Anderson).

You are correct in saying that the mounting mechanism could cause the irregularity. I would try and work that forst and foremost if I were you.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

<div class='quotetop'>(Darth Kahnt @ Aug 24 2006, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1306417[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(NoHumorMan @ Aug 24 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]1306404[/snapback]

I was under the impression that the DP DLX dome, especially in the lower run helmets, were not trimmed down and that that was a feature of the DP CA. Though... it could also be because the domeplacement so high on the face and at the wrong angle because of the dome mount that caused this oddity.
[/b]

I am under the impression that it was. As I mentioned, I have a cking and I can assure you the dome on that is smaller than my JB ANH V2. The ESB dome was a rework of an ANH dome and longer than the ROTJ dome (which was shortened to accomodate Bob Anderson).
You are correct in saying that the mounting mechanism could cause the irregularity. I would try and work that forst and foremost if I were you.
[/b][/quote]
Yes, the dome on the JB V2 is a GH recast dome... and those domes are shaped differently than anything else available - not really the best base for comparison, imo.

Having seen several reworked DP DLX helmets where nothing was added to the length of the dome flanges, but merely had the dome repositioned gave it the correct length we remember from the movies.

Even in topics about the DP CA shows that position of the dome factors hugely in how "long and accurate" it appears

And I don't think LFL sent the stunt helmet to DPS to base their helmets on, but I agree that some changes were made to the DP domes, such as them loosing the curve at the bottom, so that it sits flat on the ground when standing on its own - I think it would be difficult to re-create that, though, it can be done.

 

[AnsonJames]

As far as I know the dome is consistent and doesn't need to be lengthened - it's dependant on the mounting machanism...
Any more help accurising my Don Post would be appreciated.

Anson

 

[AnsonJames]

I've Sharpened the notches on the nose and the lower mouth area - does the lower line of the mouth look okay?
All the photos I can find of the ESB Vader show a really sharp line on the bottom of the mouth but I can't really find any photos light enough to see how thick the line is - or is soft to the point where it hardly has any definition?
If anyone out there would like to measure the chin vent on their JB ESB OR 20TH Century helmet I'd be really grateful...

Thanks -

Anson

 

[Reel Fakes]

Looks great so far.

I wouldn't go by the JB ESB chin vent - that one always looked too small to me.

Chris

 

[Fatherless One]

Yeah the JB ESB chin vent is too small so don't panic about that. I've been told that the DP DLX may in fact be a combination af an ESB face but with an ROTJ dome. E-mail me for some info.
All DP DLX's thumbnail details are the same as yours (barely visable), you can add these, but again e-mail me.

 

[AnsonJames]

Well I've improved the notches on the nose and altered the reduced the size of the chin vent.
I didn't get any responses as to what the size of the 20th Century so using a photo from Jez's site I managed to work it out - 4.5 cm as opposed to 5.5 for the Jedi Vader.
It looks correct to me and I imagine they probably would have used fairly prescise measurements considering the amount of helmets used.
Still wouldn't mind suggestions though if anyone would like to help me out...

 

[Keith]

Looks great.
You may need to do some work on the dome mount on the top of the face so you can get the dome Positioned better, but that won't be a problem.

Keith.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I like what you have done so far.

Still think you are going to have a hard time making the dome center ridge into an ESB version. Would probably be easier to get an ANH dome and just file down the widows peak a little: instant ESB.