Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread - FINAL SUGGESTIONS IN POST 65

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I was a new member and this contest is what started me in participating in the forum so obviously I am against not allowing new members to enter, as well as not allowing new members to vote or soliciting votes from networking. If I would have signed up a few months before the contest to be eligible for entering and only relied on votes from established members I feel that no matter how good my costume was that older members with a good reputation that everyone liked would have gotten more votes. It is just human nature to want to vote for someone you like and know rather than someone you don't know because you want them to win.

This is the other edge of the sword. Anonymous voting would help ease this a bit I think if we're able to do it.

Voting needs to somehow be made easier, I don't know if that can be done. A lot of people that I got to vote for me could not figure it out, and even then they left a comment instead of a vote. Maybe if you can somehow get it to have a vote option where the actual pic is instead of the gallery, or make the voting button something different?

If I'm to be completely honest it's a little confusing to me that so many people seemed to have an issue with voting. It was a big blue text under each pic that said "VOTE". I'm not entirely sure how we could make that any more straightforward. :confused

I do think that Art wants to make more use of the gallery for voting so this is something we'll have to look in to.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

There has, in every contest here and not just the costume contest, been a lot of complaining about just WHO gets to vote. Ultimately that decision lies with Art, and him alone--his board, his rules. The rest of us have two choices--participate or not.

Well said. I think it should also be taken into account that it would certainly be easier to just lock off membership and be done with it. Right or wrong he's doing what he thinks is best for the site. :thumbsup

Okay, so what of the "already" members. It is their entries, the presentations of their creativity, knowledge and skills that are being used to lure the new members to the RPF. So I don't think they should be completely voiceless in how the contest is conducted--no participants, no contest or just a few participants, a lackluster contest.

That's why we're here.

So, what can you do to get new people to join up and join in but at the same time not alienate the established members to the point that they stop participating? I'm not real familiar with all the costumers here, but I don't think we had a lot of repeat entrants from the last two Halloween costume contests.

I'll be completely honest. I'm not overly familiar with what's gone on in past years because I wasn't involved with it so I can't really speak to repeat entrants. I have however had a lot of PMs from people saying that they had a great time and would participate next year. We were FAR from perfect this year but from what I've heard it was a step in the right direction so I don't think as many were alienated as some believe. My goal is to make each consecutive contest better than the last. :thumbsup

Just HOW do you pacify everybody, well that's impossible, but HOW do you reach a happy medium for mostly everybody?
.........There are a LOT of smart people on the RPF, many who probably deal with these types of conundrums everyday. I know there are equitable solutions to be had! So let's hear 'em people!!!

I recall reading a suggestion in a future post here that might help. When I get to it I'll mention my thoughts.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I don't know if this has come up but - there should be a category for a long term costume builds and a month or two month "Halloweens only" builds. There has got to be something said for both ends of it, sometimes there are really cool costumes that come out of a few weeks or days of building. Then there are people who have a costume that the have been building for years, cool nonetheless but obviously it puts it in a different category. Also it seems to me that one of the women's costume entry was the same as last year, it just looks that way, Im not going to say which one but it looks really close.

Interesting idea. Without consulting with Art (the final say) I can tell you that I'm open to playing with categories. I think though that dividing between long and short term would be hard to do and even harder to prove. Still an interesting thought though.

Isn't there a time or post limit on using the junkyard or for sale section, if the entrant solicits post maybe there should be a vistors voting section or something along those lines.

Perhaps having voting in the gallery be something that requires a minimum amount of posts? Would certainly limit recruited votes. Although I can see the complaints now of someone who logs on and posts ":thumbsup" in 20 threads to get the ability to vote.

o and maybe a separate section for Iron Man costumes.

Honestly from my perspective it's not going to happen. Yes, Iron Man is a very popular costume but they should compete with everyone else IMO. All an Iron Man category would do is take another prize away from the overall group based on subject and I don't think we want to go there.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Firstly, I was under the impression that registrations were closed during the voting period, and it wasn't until it was a day out from the end of the contest that I discovered people could register and place a vote. As a member of the 501st Legion and Rebel Legions I asked people on those sites as well as those whom I am facebook friends with if they could log in here (as I know a large number of members from each legion have accounts here on the RPF) and support me as a fellow SW costumer. It was never my intention to get 'new recruits' signing up and giving me a vote for the sake of getting votes, more a case of raising awareness that I was competing and asking for their support as fellow SW costumers and RPF members.

Without even asking I can tell you that Art will not close registration, especially after Halloween.

I agree that the vote totals for each contestant should be hidden from view until the end of the voting period. It just makes things seem more fair that way, and takes some of the hyper-competitive edge off the contest.

I tend to agree myself but I think there's also a desire to have that extra competitive pressure. After seeing this contest run I think it might be one of my suggestions but we'll see how that turns out. I definitely would like anonymous voting though.

Perhaps a little photoshop for particular effects or props could be allowed under certain circumstances? As an example I had the lightsaber blade photoshopped to look like it was glowing in my entry photo. No one seemed to raise any issue with it, and it was the only thing that was photoshopped in the whole image.

There were a few with the same deal. I'll think about it but as I said earlier I'm not sure it would be fair to allow lightsabers but not Iron Man's eyes, or a phaser beam. Keep in mind that any photoshop rules will only apply to the gallery pic. Fill your thread up with shots of you battling Clone troopers on a foreign world.

I put a lot of effort into my build thread, and was a bit disappointed to see that a few of the other competitors had quite short or undetailed threads. There's not much I can really suggest here since I know it can be difficult to do a build thread for something that you've already constructed, and not many people take 'in progress' images (Aayla is one of my only costumes where I actually took 'in progress' shots). Perhaps a minimum word count for build threads if the entire build is put in 1 post? Not the best idea though, and not sure if there's really anything that could be done so long as the entry criteria are all met.

This one bothered me a bit too. Looking for criteria that may improve the build threads without being too rule heavy.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Nominate a panel of judges, and have a vote for them.

The judges can have the score anonymously, but each contestant can get the score cards so they can see what they should improve on.

Each judge will have a score card with criteria; Something like this.

http://www.faccs.org/assets/PDF-Documents/Competitions/JFA-Art-Judging-Sheets.pdf

1st Best overall
2nd Best Craftsmanship
3rd Popular vote

I think a big part of the fun and suspense is voting and as others have said judges could be accused of bias as well. However! I do think there is a place for a "Judge's Choice" in each category. That could strike a happy medium between the RPF's goals and the desires of the entrants.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I have always been against the open voting, since I arrived here in the waning days of closed registration. Of course your "friends" and communities where you invite people to come vote for you are going to come vote for YOU. I just don't think the contest should be based on who can get the most begged votes.

So far as open voting goes I don't see it as a problem in most contests because in most contests the entrants are anonymous. The old dollar store lightsaber contests come to mind, never an issue that I recall. With costumes it's different because the builders are exposed.

This is why Art has an "anything goes" policy so far as recruitment and advertising for votes. If it weren't open it would be impossible to enforce restrictions.

Don't know how you could even do members only or "already" members only voting now either without some special programming or some extremely diligent overseeing!? Still I am in favor of any and all of the contests here being Peer to Peer, and not diluted by an influx of new members in a recruitment drive.

I'm not sure either. There are a few things we can do though to help limit it such as restricted IP addresses.

I think the contests can still be advertisement and vehicles for recruitment without basically just giving the contest over to the new recruits, which is what the open voting in effect does. In this year's Halloween contest 7 of the 12 prize winners were new members who joined since the end of July 2012, with 4 of them since Oct. 28, 2012. All the first pirze winners were new members. This is great for the new members, yes, but what of established members?? Maybe we can have a Veteran Members contest of some kind or Old Timers Day!??

Definitely open to a veteran members contest as a separate event! We want contests to become a regular thing around here so I'm open to pitches. Perhaps even a category specifically for veterans although that might be pushing it.

I know business and service companies of all kinds use New Customer Incentive enticements to lure and hook new customers. It's pretty much a standard business practice. But companies also have Loyalty Programs that strive to retain their existing customer base.

All I'm trying to convey is that it would be nice to have some middle ground where neither the established members nor the new members have to come away feeling shafted.

Again though, I don't think as many feel shafted as you would believe. Only time will tell of course but overall the response has been quite positive. I think a judged prize in each category might help to build bridges though.

I think it should remain a voting contest and not become a judged contest or half and half, because pity the poor judge/s who would undoubtedly be accused of every kind of bias under the sun by some of the disgruntled over not winning--favoritism, elitism, nepotism, stupidism (made that one up!). Unfortunately, juried contest do always seem to smack of those things.

Which is why if I ever went this route I would likely have each category have (based on the values this year) a 1st prize worth $250 (voted), 2nd prize worth $100 (voted), and a Judged prize worth $100.

I think it would take away a lot of the fun factor for us not being able to vote. Voters have their own criteria for voting and it is not always or even mostly for the technically perfectly executed, most creative, looks like it took butt-loads of work, but probably most often comes down to simply "that's the one I like". So that kinda levels the playing field for the varying skills and abilities levels, which I think is a good thing.

Agreed. This will always be primarily a voted contest (if not completely).

The one thing I wish for most of all--find a way to hide the number of votes being received during the voting. If you don't trust Art and the mods to present the real count amounts, then what are you even doing here, don't enter. I think having the vote tally showing during voting leads to a feeding frenzy of some of the more zealous entrants and the feeding frenzy annoys everyone else. I think knowing the vote count affects some people's decisions, you know like in elections and stuff, those who want to be seen as, known as, having voted for the winner, or those unable to decide so they vote for whoever someone else they admire voted for--that sort of thing.

Mentioned a few times in this thread so I'll suggest it (if the software allows). When the contest is done I could list how many votes everyone got.

The other thing I would like is for the contest to be more "advertised" across the RPF site. There was the encouragement to enter banner but there was no encouragement to vote banner, so I think very few "already" members voted. Not sure now if the banner showed up on all the site's pages or just the costuming forum/s.

The banner was everywhere but I like your idea for a banner for voting. :thumbsup

Have a NEW MEMBER category just for the new members--entrants AND voters, again, back ever how long one might consider NEW to be.......3 months, 6 months, 1 year.......? Maybe replace the Groups catagory with a New Member catagory as groups had the least amount of enteries this year and half of those were members with more than one kid. Those could easily go into the kids catagory and the other groups likewise into the male or female catagories. Then by the next year, they'd be established members!

I honestly don't think that will happen. People get very touchy if all of a sudden you're allowed to submit your multiple kids into the children's section as a group (same with the male & female). It's no longer a level playing field because a single costume is competing with multiple costumes. Also, the group section was something requested for last year and given. I'm not saying it has to stay but I'm really not big on separating members based on when they joined.

and/or
Have a RECRUITMENT prize. Those who can get the most new members to sign up during the contest period, not to vote, but just to sign up.
and/or
Even better, have a Recruitment Drive contest some time outside of and not in conjunction with the costume contest or any other contest, so everyone-- costumers, and propers and modelers and sculptors could all participate and recruit members for ALL the areas of the RPF instead of just costumers for the costuming forum.
and/or
A NEW MEMBERS CHOICE award
and or
Lower the prize amounts, especially for 1st place. Maybe the vultures only after the money would not want to swoop in for a lesser prize, whereas many, if not all, of the established costumers here would probably do it for the glory/bragging rights alone.
and/or
Change nothing, keep things as they have been and let the grumbling and complaining wax and wane as it will do anyway lol

Lord knows the last one is true! :lol Some interesting things to think about there for sure.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I do think last year there was also the suggestion about the difference between sewn costumes and armor/foam/sturdy costumes... to me, sometimes these are hard to compare and decide. Something which looks awesome as an armor (ie Clive's Unicorn Gundam) would make me insane of joy. But there are also very well sewn costumes.(ie fevereon's Assassin's Creed works) And as someone who makes both, it's definitely something to think about...if possible.

Although an interesting thought I think if we went this route we would have to abolish the traditional categories (male & female) as we can't have a contest with 40 different categories! :lol

Then of course would be complaints from the guys that they can't compete with the attractive ladies here and from the women that they have to compete against 11 Iron Men.

That doesn't mean though that Halloween has to be our only costume contest. We could certainly have a sewn one and an armour one in the future.

And I'd like a panel of judges too. Maybe not as the entire conclusion, but they will review them. Maybe as some kind of judge winner and public winner? Or how do you call that?

Personally I'm leaning this way too. A hybrid could end up making a lot of people happy I think.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I personally think they need to have been a member for a minimum amount of time or have a certain set post count. This might help with just the hit it and quit it folks and get more long standing members.

I'd be willing to entertain the idea of a post count requirement for voting. Not sure though.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

you did a great job in moderating this years costume contest....you handled it well and did an amazing job...

Much appreciated sir.

I think this year ended in controversy again....it seems unavoidable since the rpf is using the costume contest as a way to promote the site and try to gain new members.....i understand completely why they do it....i think the current members and the rpf want two different things....

Unavoidable perhaps but I think it can be lessened.

members want a fair costume contest that awards are given to the people that deserve to win.....and not the ones who market themselves to their friends on facebook and twitter.....even though the rpf wants a fair costume contest...the rules they set make it impossible to have a fair contest....the votes on some of the winners this year and last year show how important it is to market themselves constantly on various websites and forums...a big win for the rpf cause it gains a lot of traffic and membership.....but a big loss to current members....

I would argue that it is fair because everyone has the same opportunity to do that. It does however make it less about skill and more about marketing.

it is a big loss for the rpf as well....as others pointed out....99% of new members that register to vote dont come back.....while the 1% stay.....is the 1% really worth all of this trouble? is the 1% worth putting a sour taste in members mouths when amazing costumes lose to mediocre costumes.....it kills morale of several members....some been very vocal in the contest thread and other threads....and some remain silent...the rpf is hurting itself...

While we certainly don't have statistics regarding new voters I'm sure your numbers aren't far off. However I wouldn't say that any of our winners had "mediocre" costumes. Also, I've learned that there will ALWAYS be several members who will leave with a sour taste in their mouths no matter what you do. Your next points though may help to ease that and I'm coming to the same conclusion myself...

maybe a way to eliminate some of this tension is to create a new category.....eliminate a third place winner....and create a judges category....first two winners will be based on votes from current and new members...third winner will be based on a judges panel...a panel of unbias members excluding moderators, forum leaders, and contest mod....members like alan costillo, pharchivist, and hydin...this way its a win win situation for both sides...the rpf gets their traffic and member participation and the current members get a somewhat more fair contest....if the judges panel chose the same winner as the voters...maybe it can be an added bonus prize...

Yes. I agree. However instead of a bonus prize if the same entrant is chosen I would say that they get the higher of the prizes they won and the runner up gets the next one. For judges I would likely look to the likes of established builders here that aren't entering. Perhaps even the previous years' judges pick could be one of them.

build threads....make them optional or get rid of them entirely.....about 16 out of 130 build threads have more than two pages of replies.....the other 114 barely have comments and views....the site is becoming more difficult to read and follow...the build threads for the purpose of entering in a contest is just adding more fluff to the site.....i used the search button and ended up with 6 pages of build threads for this contest....kinda defeats the purpose of the build thread

I'll float it, but I don't know...

do you know the percentage of returning contestants from last years costume contest?

No idea as I wasn't involved. However I will be keeping track for next year to get an idea.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Unfortunately I wonder how many people looked at enough build threads to make a fair judgement. Or we could have some stats for each costume to help people judge - say, cost, time, % scratch-built, etc - people are more likely to read this than a full build thread.

This was actually a requirement (not specifically, but in general). Your first post in the build thread had to have a summary of your build.

I'm looking for input on build thread requirements to make them better.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Yeah ER points out some good points. When the first costume contest happened I admit I was a vocal stinker because of how the person won the first time using just a store bought costume. ER pointed out to me it just wasn't worth it.

However you were right. That won't be happening again.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Yeah, not worth it for me either.

I would hope that this whole conversation would convince you otherwise.

When you've been a member for at least a couple of years, and your thread has 10+ pages of praise, your build thread gets featured on RPF's Facebook feed, and someone who registers the day before the contest gets a suspicious amount of votes with no vote history? Yeah, it stinks.

What is more important to you: Pleasing the community you've built, or throwing them under the bus for new members who won't stick around?

Nobody was thrown under a bus. The whole point of open recruiting for votes was to level the playing field. If your thread has loads of posts and is featured on the FB page then post notes there saying "Hey! I'm now in a contest and need your votes! Come vote for me!"

If anything that kind of spotlight should give you an advantage in this scenario.

As it is now, none of the members in the male contest were members before the contest. How is that a showcase of the best RPF has to offer when these people aren't even members?

They are members now though.

Hiding the voting results will help at the minimum. Creating a judging panel and doing away with public votes might be best - People will still have incentive to enter, but established community members will have a better chance.

I don't think that this will ever become a completely judged contest. The idea isn't to tip it in favour of the established but to give everyone a fair playing field. Open votes with open recruiting does that. That said as many have mentioned I think we may try a hybrid vote/judge situation.

Changing up categories and rules won't change unless the public voting goes away.

Simply not true I'm afraid. I think that there are plenty of things we can do to make things better.

A minimum amount of quality, real posts in order to enter would help to. It doesn't deterr anyone from entering, just makes sure they make their presence known.

Who is to judge what is a "quality, real post"? I'm willing to entertain post requirements to vote but not to enter. This is a contest for members both new and old. Not just established ones with a presence.

...also this might make me unpopular here, but the Hulk that won used a store bought mask! AGAINST THE RULES HE SHOULD HAVE PAINTED HIS FACE!

Nowhere in the rules did it say that you couldn't have any store bought elements, just that you couldn't have a complete store bought costume. His entire body was scratch built, he qualified.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

It would be nice if the kids category were divided into at least two age ranges -it is very difficult to decide between an adorable toddler in costume vs a detailed costume on a 12 year old.. The "Group" category also had this problem..

I think at that point it just becomes a bit much in terms of categories. I think in the group category anyway there was a pretty fair balance.

I think a lightsaber blade or a background is ok -and having a build thread with various progress photos helps to clarify what the costume is. There shouldn't be any question as to what is costume and what is photo-shopped.

This is why I think that photoshop belongs on the build thread and not in the gallery pic. That way there's no question at all.

It would really, really be nice to have more than one vote per category -it would make the voting process much easier.

I doubt this would happen but I'm not sure what the software is capable of. Honestly I see it being abused to pump up votes.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

I think that in comparison, members of the RPF have a much stronger bond and personal investment in their costuming endeavors (which brought them to this site to begin with), and would rather participate in a contest based on merit than who can get the most people to join. To pretty much force us to promote our entries to remain even remotely viable (because others certainly will), instead of our work speaking for itself is really frustrating.

That's fair. I think a judged place in each category might help.

Though there may be a level of favoritism within the community, I think most would be more satisfied if the outcome was decided by our actual fellow peers and not by who has the most friends outside of the site.

Unfortunately, if its a publicly promoted contest (as in participants are encouraged to promote it), its not going to be any different than any other contest on the internet.

Kinda the name of the game so far as voted contests go. I hear ya.

I agree, though IP restriction can easily deal with some potential cheaters, different IPs can easily be spoofed through proxy servers, which would be the first thing anyone with smarts would consider if they planned to cheat n' run on a forum.

True, but it does make it more difficult and time consuming. The idea is to deter as much as possible and I think that's a great way.

Even if there's a rule in place, that really can't be stopped unless membership is frozen, which the RPF does not plan to do.

Indeed, flies in the face of Art's vision to shut down registration.

as a promotion tool and costuming showcase, it did its job. It promoted and showed costumes. As a "costume contest", highly debatable.

maybe rename it "halloween promotion contest"?

I think that might be going a bit far... I do plan to make some large changes (provided I'm allowed) next year to address some of the issues brought up here.

Thank you everyone for your input. :thumbsup

 

[msleeper]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

As it is now, none of the members in the male contest were members before the contest. How is that a showcase of the best RPF has to offer when these people aren't even members?

They are members now though.

... Wow. If this is really the line of thinking going into why contests like these are being run - that getting new people to register is more important than your existing member base - I'm really glad I didn't bother entering this one.

I'm sure all of the new "members" that were registered help RobLowe and the other people who were robbed sleep more soundly at night.

 

[TVsRobLowe]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

msleeper,
I don't think I was robbed, but I do think that Ninja Turtle was.

 

[TVsRobLowe]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Since this contest is not really a contest at all but a recruitment drive veiled as a contest, next year I will enter again with one purpose.

I will make the absolute worst costume you have ever seen, and I will bust my ass to get votes and I will win. This costume will be so bad that it will be an embarrassment to the RPF, but maybe it will get the point across about worthless registrants and the validity of the contest.

If anyone has any ideas, pm them to me.

 

[EvilRocketeer]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

If anyone has any ideas, pm them to me.

Roseanne

 

[Bloop]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

Since this contest is not really a contest at all but a recruitment drive veiled as a contest, next year I will enter again with one purpose.

I will make the absolute worst costume you have ever seen, and I will bust my ass to get votes and I will win. This costume will be so bad that it will be an embarrassment to the RPF, but maybe it will get the point across about worthless registrants and the validity of the contest.

If anyone has any ideas, pm them to me.

A couple Halloweens ago, I saw someone who made a robot costume that was just unaltered cardboard boxes with the word "robot" written on it in black marker. Try to do something like that, but with less effort.

EDIT: Found a pic of something similar online as a point of reference:

So something like that, but, y'know, not so fancy!

 

[Shylaah]

Re: Costume Contest Rules Discussion Thread

>>>clip<<<
Unfortunately, if its a publicly promoted contest (as in participants are encouraged to promote it), its not going to be any different than any other contest on the internet. >>>clip<<<
as a promotion tool and costuming showcase, it did its job. It promoted and showed costumes. As a "costume contest", highly debatable.

maybe rename it "Halloween promotion contest"?

Agreed! or "Fall Recruitment Drive" All three Halloween Costume Contests, that is all they have been, recruitment drives. And all our discussions and suggestions are moot, if it that is to remain it's sole purpose.

>>>clip<<<<
Perhaps having voting in the gallery be something that requires a minimum amount of posts? Would certainly limit recruited votes. Although I can see the complaints now of someone who logs on and posts ":thumbsup" in 20 threads to get the ability to vote.

Honestly from my perspective it's not going to happen. Yes, Iron Man is a very popular costume but they should compete with everyone else IMO. All an Iron Man category would do is take another prize away from the overall group based on subject and I don't think we want to go there.

Minimum vote count would not change a thing, would not limit recruited votes as they would, as you point out, just post ever how many posts were required and then vote.

And you stated rather emphatically that closing registration during the voting would in no way be considered , and is practically heresy, so if any limiting of voting were to be established it would have to be via the time element, must have been a member for X amount of days.......

I think that was a joke about having a separate IronMan category

So far as open voting goes I don't see it as a problem in most contests because in most contests the entrants are anonymous. The old dollar store lightsaber contests come to mind, never an issue that I recall. With costumes it's different because the builders are exposed.

This is why Art has an "anything goes" policy so far as recruitment and advertising for votes. If it weren't open it would be impossible to enforce restrictions.

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Definitely open to a veteran members contest as a separate event! We want contests to become a regular thing around here so I'm open to pitches. Perhaps even a category specifically for veterans although that might be pushing it.

Again though, I don't think as many feel shafted as you would believe. Only time will tell of course but overall the response has been quite positive. I think a judged prize in each category might help to build bridges though.

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I honestly don't think that will happen. People get very touchy if all of a sudden you're allowed to submit your multiple kids into the children's section as a group (same with the male & female). It's no longer a level playing field because a single costume is competing with multiple costumes. Also, the group section was something requested for last year and given. I'm not saying it has to stay but I'm really not big on separating members based on when they joined.

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In the Dollar Store contests and other prop contests, where it was possible to remain anonymous, and you weren't allowed to say which entrant was yours or post it anywhere else on the Interwebz, so that right there eliminated any begged for votes.

I just don't see what is so hard about having restrictions and enforcing them. This is a pretty sophisticated platform the RPF runs on, surely it isn't completely devoid of a little customizing!?

Except for "no desire to do such", I see no reason there could not be a Halloween Costume Contest with separate categories for New and Veteran........Or as has been touch on separate categories for something like long term in depth builds VS quickly done up for Halloween

I'm just the opposite, I think more people feel shafted than you think. I do not for myself. as I know my costuming skills can't hold a candle to the kinds of skills others here have, the kind of costumes others here make. I feel shafted for them and all the great talent that didn't get much of a chance to shine circumstances being what they were.

I didn't mean present "your multiply children" in the kids section as a group, or put groups in the male / female sections. I meant to be saying--a group of especially ONLY two children could be two individual entries in the Kids category, and groups of adults could go each as an individual into which ever category, male or female.....The group category had the least entrants. If it was something requested and granted from last year, it didn't get much participation of actual groups of people, it was mostly people entering their two kids as a group--which like the over indulged photoshopping, I don't believe was in the spirit of the intent of groups!?

I'd be willing to entertain the idea of a post count requirement for voting. Not sure though.

Think I already said something about this.....^there someplace.....would have to be a "length of time" thing, like the 45 days or whatever it is for the JY........requiring a post count would just get us a bunch of lame posts cluttering up things.

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i think this year ended in controversy again....it seems unavoidable since the rpf is using the costume contest as a way to promote the site and try to gain new members.....i understand completely why they do it....i think the current members and the rpf want two different things....

members want a fair costume contest that awards are given to the people that deserve to win.....and not the ones who market themselves to their friends on facebook and twitter.....even though the rpf wants a fair costume contest...the rules they set make it impossible to have a fair contest....the votes on some of the winners this year and last year show how important it is to market themselves constantly on various websites and forums...a big win for the rpf cause it gains a lot of traffic and membership.....but a big loss to current members....

it is a big loss for the rpf as well....as others pointed out....99% of new members that register to vote dont come back.....while the 1% stay.....is the 1% really worth all of this trouble? is the 1% worth putting a sour taste in members mouths when amazing costumes lose to mediocre costumes.....it kills morale of several members....some been very vocal in the contest thread and other threads....and some remain silent...the rpf is hurting itself...

maybe a way to eliminate some of this tension is to create a new category.....eliminate a third place winner....and create a judges category....first two winners will be based on votes from current and new members...third winner will be based on a judges panel...a panel of unbias members excluding moderators, forum leaders, and contest mod....members like alan costillo, pharchivist, and hydin...this way its a win win situation for both sides...the rpf gets their traffic and member participation and the current members get a somewhat more fair contest....if the judges panel chose the same winner as the voters...maybe it can be an added bonus prize...

you basically covered this already.....but photoshop should be eliminated....most of the photoshop was awful.....some of the costumes were very misleading due to photoshop...

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votes should be private......

do you know the percentage of returning contestants from last years costume contest?

Agree with all ER's post except what I clipped out ......build thread, for keepin' 'em....for having a few criteria like a progress pic or two....

Don't know how many or percentage of retuning contestants from last year's contest, even the 2010 contest.....Do know that several of the very well known established female costumers on the RPF were not entrants this year.

Since this contest is not really a contest at all but a recruitment drive veiled as a contest, >>>clip<<<

I think it is just a recruitment drive, I don't think that fact is veiled--it's been stated over and over throughout the contest thread and in this one that that is what 'tis.........and if that is going to remain it's sole purpose, I do think it should undergo a name change.

Shylaah