Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Well there are 2 gender-bends so now what?

We apparently have Riri Williams in an ironman suit as the new iron heart and Shuri as new Black Panther. Already some controversy given the actress' stance on vaccines.

I dont mind a woman playing Black Panther but honestly felt the mantle should be passed down to Dora Milaje (the head female guard). Black Panther is supposed to represent the ultimate warrior of Wakanda who is shown to be capable of protecting the country from its enemies. Its why T'challa had to accept challenges from the other tribes and fight without his powers and only a spear and shield.

Shuri is basically the Q to T'Challa's Bond. Why give the mantle of 007 to Q when there is another talented MI6 agent waiting in the sidelines?

I will say I love the queen though. A what could have been would be the queen being the adviser as T'Challa continued to grow as a king.
She could make it work, sure. I just don't support gender-bends. To each their own
I dont mind a woman playing Black Panther but honestly felt the mantle should be passed down to Dora Milaje (the head female guard).

I suspect there will be debate amongst the characters about these exact issues.

Also I can't in good conscience call it a gender bend since Black Panther is explicitly a title thats passed on. Its inherently different from characters like Iron Man or Hawkeye where we have been following the first itineration.
I’m most excited about Iron Heart. I know nothing about the comic version, but in the MCU continuity, the idea that after the war in Wakanda against Thanos - where Hulk Buster was used - and the Wakanda assisted fight against Thanos in End Game - where Iron Man destroyed the entire opposing army - I totally buy a young woman in research and development would be inspired to build her own armor out of vibranium.

And I am all in.

And I don’t give a flying F what gender anyone is. Anyone who gets hung up on petty crap like that needs to grow up.

Also those trailers make me wanna switch gears and look into working at a trailer editing house.
I’m looking forward to seeing it and anxious to see how well Namor is portrayed. I’ve always thought that the perfect actor (were he still alive) for the role of Namor would be Yul Brenner:

I liked Iron Heart in the comics. She told Tony to build her a suit. He replied that the suit cost half a billion to build. She replied with, “So what? You got it!” He still wouldn’t and so she built herself one, and still honored him. I hope that they stick to the comic format. The character was smart like Tony, snarky like Peter Parker and had a driving need to help others. Oh PLEASE give me that version of her!
I just watched Wakanda Forever. Spoiler ⚠️ warning.

I had to go three pages back to find this thread. For an MCU premiere that has got to be a first.

Wakanda Forever is a very good movie, and it is sad that it probably won't get the audience it deserves. Ryan Coogler accepted the task of making a superhero film without the charismatic actor who popularized the role. To his credit I think he was the only director who could have pulled it off.

Up front I appreciate that Wakanda Forever wasn't all about shoehorning in a surrogate Black Panther to plug right back into the MCU. Ryan Coogler is a lot smarter than that.

What he does do is tell us a story. With the loss of Wakanda's iconic Black Panther the foremost struggle is to mend a fragmenting national identity. Within that struggle it questions the wisdom of past choices - even those made by the last Black Panther himself. Wakanda has never been more vulnerable and, in this place, it faces its greatest crisis - Prince Namor and the nation of Atlanteans.

It was long accepted by many fans that Shuri would be the obvious choice to don the suit in the future. The problem is that her character has not been properly groomed for that arc. As a secondary character she functioned as a realist and a sarcastic foil to T'Challa's stalwart nobility. It would have been a stretch if she suddenly materialized selfless heroism and became the Black Panther.

I appreciate that, even after accepting the mantle, Shuri has to confront the very thing that makes her unsuitable as a hero. In her pragmatism she completely forgoes the ceremonial aspect of drinking the flower potion. It was a brilliant twist that, in her dream state, instead of meeting her ancestors she would meet Killmonger who also valued being a realist over being an idealist. I agree that her character had more in common with him than with her brother, and it was striking to have her confront this way.

In advance of watching Wakanda Forever I couldn't think of a way they could pay homage to the character and actor that wouldn't feel tacked on. Ryan Coogler made another brilliant and logical move where Shuri didn't have an opportunity to grieve appropriately until the very end. And the way it was done really had me tearing up.

Like I said, this is a very good movie which appropriately begins with a crisis of national identity. The emotional climax isn't when Shuri appears in the suit. It is when the Wakandan people face a common enemy and chant in unison shouting, "Wakanda Forever!" The title is perfect.

I think the main hurdle to the success of Wakanda Forever isn't the film itself but the audience. Even seasoned MCU fans might find it lacking only because they expect to be served up a replacement for Chadwick Boseman, as indelicate as it might be. That is a shame because I think this is another film that showcases what makes Ryan Coogler a great storyteller. Wakanda Forever deserves an audience.
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I watched this twice yesterday, once in the morning in IMAX and then my girlfriend joined me after work and we watched it together, when we left the cinema she said it was her favourite Marvel film this year.

Many great points in this film, once small but subtle thing was the use of subtitles to really emphasise and celebrate the different languages of the two cultures in this film and having Griot translate the Talokans for Shuri on the bridge was very clever.
For me it was sort of inevitable that Shuri would assume the mantle of Black Panther and that was cemented in my mind when we sadly lost the late, great Chadwick Boseman to cancer.

As with Captain Marvel and the Stan Lee tribute, it was inevitable but nonetheless powerful to see Chadwick honoured in the Marvel Studios logo.

The costumes and art direction were again really well done, giving the Talkoanians a distinct visual style from the Wakandans.

Plenty more I could say, but even though it's personal choice to read this thread, I will avoid any spoilers for a few days in-case people stumble on this thread and see something they didn't want to.

A top class film, I highly recommend seeing it in the cinema.
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I really enjoyed this version of Namor. Very true to how the character acts in the comics, while giving him an interesting origin update.

As a whole, the film felt a little long, but I enjoyed it. The whole thing is a tribute to Chadwick Boseman, his loss is omnipresent throughout.

Riri Williams is great, and I'm excited to see more of her on D+.
I saw it last night.... It was fine.

But like pretty much anything post Intinity Saga, no strong desire to see immediately again.

Namor was great, woulda liked more of that... How they handled Shuri was pretty good (she didn't beat Namor in combat - more "trapped" him)... Angela Basset was great... Mbaku (sp?) was again one of the best characters in the flick...

But Ironheart was underwhelming, and I didn't like the suit (which is good... cuz my Ironman armor figures collecting coulda got a tad more expensive)

And I was constantly having to remind myself what the goal of the antagonist was... and when I remembered, I'd think "eh... okay?"

Also... I dunno if it was just my theater, but the movie seemed "DARK"... like I could barely see what was going on in any scene at night. I'm pretty sure they shot in the day and just faked night...

But look at the ship attack in this movie and compare it to the beginning of "Winter Soldier"... I could see everything in Winter Soldier....

also they introduce a couple characters that just die in the first 10 minutes.... immediately... in a movie this long, we didn't need to see any of that.

Overall, 6.5/10
Ironheart felt forced into this story. I would have preferred she get her own series and some serious back story to make me care about her, because frankly I didn't. She wasn't presented in a way that made her likable or given a story arc that had her character develop in a meaningful way to where she earned the suit, like Tony did. Never explained how a student had so much money to restore a classic muscle car, while going to university ($60k/year current tuition not counting housing, which takes it up to 95k as of this year), and have access to the tech to build her suit. That could have been addressed by one throwaway line about Tony Stark's endowment paying for tuition and entire program costs plus internships with Stark Industries, not just funding graduate projects.

She could be edited out and the whole story would not change a bit. Which is a shame to her character, because I like her in the comics. This movie did not do her justice.

Why didn't Namor go after the actual scientist who built the vibranium detector? It was revealed that she only proved the concept, and that her professor sold it to the government and built it. If Namor gets Riri, there's still the professor/scientist running around who knew how to make the thing. That should have been the person they were focused on, not the somehow very well resourced undergrad living in a dorm.

I also didn't care for how one dimensional Namor was. He's 400 years old and has developed incredible technology and an entire undersea kingdom and yet has never grown wiser than a teenager pissed off at the world? I don't really buy that.

ALSO... so now that Shuri has figured out how to synthesize the heart shaped herb, why keep it for only one Black Panther? Why not give it to all the Dora Milaje? Why not have an entire army of Black Panther warriors to defend Wakanda? That would have taken care of the Talokan warriors quickly.
I'm very excited about this movie.Black Panther holds a special place in American comics.
I'm excited to see what they do with the tired story of Atlantis. I really like the Mayan look. Overall, it looks great.

Saw the film and had to let it sit for a bit.

It was ooookayyyy

The Marvel logo opening with exclusively Black Panther scenes was well done.


The parallels between T'Challa's death and Chadwick's was so baked into the story, over and over and over, died suddenly, no one able to cope, this film would not let that go. I really feel like it exploited Boseman's death. If you notice it and mention it, get ready to be lectured

We got it the first few times. It initially made a great impact, but the film would not stop using the death to escalate every scene it could.

So, when the Queen delivers her, "have I not given enough?" speech, its impact had been exhausted.

Angela Bassett was GREAT! EDIT: but now dead. BOO!

I liked Shuri in the first movie, but she was very unlikable in this one. And is her version of Jarvis, mostly just a computer that warns her about unexpected guest, which she repeatedly shooshes.

Ironheart was a sidekick. She was Arthur to Shuri's, The Tick. What's up with Marvel and MIT?
Ironheart is wasted talent returning to MIT helping losers get better grades.

Vibranium, which was the answer to everything in the first film, was neutered.

The Sirens were great, love it when they got blasted!

Colonizer jokes?!?! Really? Wakanda with all their fabulous tech, and they did nothing to prevent it. Minorities have vibranium and everyone else is clearly to evil to have access to it.

Namor should have just been a half-Atlantean, like in the comics. Yes! I know, Aquaman rip-off. Can you really sue over making someone from Atlantis? I really liked his running/super-leaping fighting style. He came across more creepy than seductive in his scenes with Shuri. And they didn't get into the tech of his world.

I know the run time was Looooooong, but they have an artificial sun underwater!??! I was expecteing to see Alfred Molina holding their sun in place with octopus tentacles.

Anyone notice impaled Shuri left no blood on the spear? Terrible CGI for her helmet appearing during the "Wakanda Forver!" grilled Namor scene.
Just saw it, and liked it okay. Wasn't on the edge of my seat, but the character stuff was very good. Angela Bassett is wonderful.
Yeah, I also didn't care about Ironheart.
Come to think of it, Ross and de Fontaine didn't really need to be in it either.
Saw it a week ago, had a few thoughts. I thought it was just okay, and I echo some of what's already been said - it was a little long, I think due to there really not being one main character, so they had to spend a lot of time on each one because we didn't know a lot about them - which is different from movies like "The Avengers," where you had multiple "lead" chatacters, but they had all been introduced in other films first. Seemed like they were trying to make up for the fact that there's no Chadwick Boseman by throwing a bunch of characters and their own stories at us. Unfortunately, that was a problem going in - it's a big hole to fill. Killing off Michael B. Jordan in the first movie seems like a mistake in hindsight, as a Killmonger-centered story could have been more interesting. The paralells between him and Namor (which were brought up in his brief appearence) could have made a stronger story.

I guess I'm in the minority think Angela Basset wasn't that good. I thought she overacted through the whole thing. I get that she was being "regal" and whatever, but I thought her bombastic delivery undercut any emotional impact that was supposed to happen. It took me out of the story.
I also didn't really have any emotion regarding the death of T'Challa, which they were pinning a lot of the movie on the emotion of Chadwick Boseman's untimely passing. Maybe it's because a lot of time has passed since he died, or maybe I just never felt that sad for his passing, but it seems clear that his real-life death was the driving force for the emotional center of the movie, so the fact that I didn't have that going in meant I didn't get the emotional payoff that a lot of people got. I don't know if that's more a failing in my emotional investment or the movie not doing enough to incite it in me.

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