WORST Heath Ledger impression EVER! I actually liked a good bit of the movie (although it essentially rips off the premise of Dark Knight, along with its villain), but Lex... just horrible. WTF was that? I mean.. really!
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
cboath
Master Member
Seems to me those disliking this batman are very much into the comics.
I don't do comics so it doesn't remotely resonate that much. I know batman doesn't go out of his way to kill, but every onscreen batman has killed going back to the 60's and Adam West. (Not counting the cartoons). I did watch TAS and I think he was clean there.
I'll admit i thought batman using guns was wrong to me - but the worst of that was in his visions. Still grenade launchers don't seem to be very batman-y to me.
Superman though...i saw nothing redeeming about the portrayal in this or MoS...Not saying he has to be 100% boyscout, but, you know, through the people a smile every now and then. 100% scowl is just wrong.
I don't do comics so it doesn't remotely resonate that much. I know batman doesn't go out of his way to kill, but every onscreen batman has killed going back to the 60's and Adam West. (Not counting the cartoons). I did watch TAS and I think he was clean there.
I'll admit i thought batman using guns was wrong to me - but the worst of that was in his visions. Still grenade launchers don't seem to be very batman-y to me.
Superman though...i saw nothing redeeming about the portrayal in this or MoS...Not saying he has to be 100% boyscout, but, you know, through the people a smile every now and then. 100% scowl is just wrong.
It seems you have something in common with the director.
Zack Snyder in the Empire Online interview:
Chris Hewitt: Can you say something about Darkseid?
Zack Snyder: I donno. What is his symbol again? It's something like a "Z" but a Greek "Z" or something? I donno. That's so ... I donno. Does that appear in the movie? I don't think so ... oh maybe.
Chris Hewitt: That giant ...
Zack Snyder: Oh that giant impression on the ground! Yeah. Oh yeah. There's that. That's right ... umm. I mean, maybe he exists ... out in the universe somewhere ... looking for something? ... something that's against life? I donno.
It seems Snyder has been drinking too much of grandma's peach tea.
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CharlesHouse
Active Member
That guy has gotta stop doing inteviews.
That said, he didn't say it. A reporter said "which means that" and he said "I kinda like that," which suggests it's the first time he's thought of it.
CharlesHouse
Active Member
I read comics and enjoyed this.
Both of the instances in which he uses guns, one of which is not loaded with a lethal projectile, are from a comic.
I don't consider the grenade launcher a "gun" anymore than I consider the line launcher or EMP rifle "guns."
I agree. I think it's at least as likely that Zack hasn't given it any thought whatsoever.
I think they rushed the Death of Superman just so they can have a superhero death before Marvel's Civil War. In their eagerness to get it to the screen they're really doing a disservice to the story. They should just play their own game and stop trying to design movie strategy against to what Marvel is doing.
And, if Darkseid is the big bad in the Justice League movie in 2017 (ahead of Marvel's Infinity War films in 2018), they're committing the exact same mistake. DC needs to take their time but I see no evidence they care about playing the long game.
And, if Darkseid is the big bad in the Justice League movie in 2017 (ahead of Marvel's Infinity War films in 2018), they're committing the exact same mistake. DC needs to take their time but I see no evidence they care about playing the long game.
KrangPrime
Master Member
where the hell to even begin with the mess that is the DCU movie verse?
This review will be a bit of a mess...i'm trying to get all my thoughts out while it's fresh..so please excuse the random ramblings.
I'll just address what sticks out in my mind the most.
Batman shooting guns...any guns...whether in his car or in a dream is just wrong.
That kid they choose as the flash looks like a street drug addict rather than a super hero.
Wonder Woman did nothing for me. I still think she's wrong for the part.. and either she can't act, or she gets nervous on screen, because all her line deliveries
seemed stilted, for lack of a better explanation.
I HATED Millenial lex luthor. he'd have been good for the riddler, or maybe even the Joker. But as Lex Freakin' luthor? sigh...
What prison shaves your head, other than it's part of the lore and now needs to be explained away? he can't just be bald...
The Justice league files. How stupid can you get?
Wonder Woman NEEDED to have her OWN movie before this. there is LITERALLY NO REASON SHE SHOULD BE IN THIS! NONE! ZERO! ZILCH!
WB Realized it mucked up. Marvel did it better, and now they are scrambling to play catchup before the super hero craze dies down (and it already kind of is).
that's the ONLY reason she and those scenes with aquaman, flash, and cyborg where in there! They should have had their OWN movies done by now...but warners is so screwed up a company, it can't get out of it's own way. These GD stories should have written themselves, the characters have since taken on a life of their own in 75 years, but Warners can't even do that right.
breath breath breath....
sigh.
I HATED man of steel. It was boring. there was nothing new, or cool , or throw back or interesting in it. I went in not caring, I went out not caring.
the only one who looked like she was having fun was amy addams.
There is NO REASON AT ALL for this world to LIKE Superman. absolutely NONE. he didn 't go out of his way to be a hero in the first one. if he saw someone in danger, sure, he'd help.. but other than that he stuck to himself thanks to the things his parents said. 'you don't owe this world anything'.....
over the last year, we are suddenly to believe that he's had a change of heart...is saving people left and right, and people now look up to him as a good, after killing thousands of innocents?
Not buying it movie logic.
Even the death of superman. sure, they made ridiculous amounts of effort to point out all the battles where civilian and casualty free (laughable in and of itself)....but they still destroyed an awful lot. and the general public knew no reason to fear doomsday......he just showed up, no crowd reaction shots, no nothing. the military suddenly knew he was there though, and had enough knowledge about him to send nukes... How do Nukes hurt superman, BTW?
I get why Bruce wants to fight clark. But WHY does lex want clark to fight batman? why does he kidnap his mother? why does he do anything he does? as far as we know, these two don't have a history together. if it's told off screen, and you don't follow it, you have no idea why these two hate each other other than it's a part of the lore.
that part of it made no sense whatsoever. The only reason ANY of it made sense, is that we've seen bits of these elements all before, and in the mind of the viewer, you understand the motivations. Lex has stolen the fortresses knowledge countless times. lex has created beasts to kill superman. superman hates lex. it's all been done before, so maybe it doesn't need to be explained anymore than that.
That whole scene in the desert at the start... why was that needed? Lex is selling experimental weapons to African Criminals...why?
If superman had been fighting lex for decades, I can see it as a plan to frame superman. but if they hadn't met yet? and from all signs of the movie, they hadn't....why is he trying to frame superman?
The Big moment.....The two heroes meet. ZERO CHILLS. absolutely ZERO. it's a Superman I don't care about. it's a batman that's all new, and probably a different universe than begins. no history. no emotion. no connection.
The ONLY emotion I felt in the entire film, was when you see the big three together for the first time. And that was just a tinge of sadness.
What could have been glorious just.....fell flat. ....
Oh, and why was wayne manor destroyed?
in begins it was burned to the ground, but I thought it was rebuilt by part 3? just like most of this movie..it's one big WTH moment.
I think the coolest thing in the movie was wonder womans theme. that's about it.
No desire to see it again. even the guy at the movie theater said general audiences didn't care for it coming out of it.
This review will be a bit of a mess...i'm trying to get all my thoughts out while it's fresh..so please excuse the random ramblings.
I'll just address what sticks out in my mind the most.
Batman shooting guns...any guns...whether in his car or in a dream is just wrong.
That kid they choose as the flash looks like a street drug addict rather than a super hero.
Wonder Woman did nothing for me. I still think she's wrong for the part.. and either she can't act, or she gets nervous on screen, because all her line deliveries
seemed stilted, for lack of a better explanation.
I HATED Millenial lex luthor. he'd have been good for the riddler, or maybe even the Joker. But as Lex Freakin' luthor? sigh...
What prison shaves your head, other than it's part of the lore and now needs to be explained away? he can't just be bald...
The Justice league files. How stupid can you get?
Wonder Woman NEEDED to have her OWN movie before this. there is LITERALLY NO REASON SHE SHOULD BE IN THIS! NONE! ZERO! ZILCH!
WB Realized it mucked up. Marvel did it better, and now they are scrambling to play catchup before the super hero craze dies down (and it already kind of is).
that's the ONLY reason she and those scenes with aquaman, flash, and cyborg where in there! They should have had their OWN movies done by now...but warners is so screwed up a company, it can't get out of it's own way. These GD stories should have written themselves, the characters have since taken on a life of their own in 75 years, but Warners can't even do that right.
breath breath breath....
sigh.
I HATED man of steel. It was boring. there was nothing new, or cool , or throw back or interesting in it. I went in not caring, I went out not caring.
the only one who looked like she was having fun was amy addams.
There is NO REASON AT ALL for this world to LIKE Superman. absolutely NONE. he didn 't go out of his way to be a hero in the first one. if he saw someone in danger, sure, he'd help.. but other than that he stuck to himself thanks to the things his parents said. 'you don't owe this world anything'.....
over the last year, we are suddenly to believe that he's had a change of heart...is saving people left and right, and people now look up to him as a good, after killing thousands of innocents?
Not buying it movie logic.
Even the death of superman. sure, they made ridiculous amounts of effort to point out all the battles where civilian and casualty free (laughable in and of itself)....but they still destroyed an awful lot. and the general public knew no reason to fear doomsday......he just showed up, no crowd reaction shots, no nothing. the military suddenly knew he was there though, and had enough knowledge about him to send nukes... How do Nukes hurt superman, BTW?
I get why Bruce wants to fight clark. But WHY does lex want clark to fight batman? why does he kidnap his mother? why does he do anything he does? as far as we know, these two don't have a history together. if it's told off screen, and you don't follow it, you have no idea why these two hate each other other than it's a part of the lore.
that part of it made no sense whatsoever. The only reason ANY of it made sense, is that we've seen bits of these elements all before, and in the mind of the viewer, you understand the motivations. Lex has stolen the fortresses knowledge countless times. lex has created beasts to kill superman. superman hates lex. it's all been done before, so maybe it doesn't need to be explained anymore than that.
That whole scene in the desert at the start... why was that needed? Lex is selling experimental weapons to African Criminals...why?
If superman had been fighting lex for decades, I can see it as a plan to frame superman. but if they hadn't met yet? and from all signs of the movie, they hadn't....why is he trying to frame superman?
The Big moment.....The two heroes meet. ZERO CHILLS. absolutely ZERO. it's a Superman I don't care about. it's a batman that's all new, and probably a different universe than begins. no history. no emotion. no connection.
The ONLY emotion I felt in the entire film, was when you see the big three together for the first time. And that was just a tinge of sadness.
What could have been glorious just.....fell flat. ....
Oh, and why was wayne manor destroyed?
in begins it was burned to the ground, but I thought it was rebuilt by part 3? just like most of this movie..it's one big WTH moment.
I think the coolest thing in the movie was wonder womans theme. that's about it.
No desire to see it again. even the guy at the movie theater said general audiences didn't care for it coming out of it.
KrangPrime
Master Member
Also,
I had to shake my head at Suicide Squad trailer.
My first thouht on seeing it is that it's so blatantly trying to copy the marvel formula, right down to the guardians of the galaxy trailer with the classic music over it.
but the characters designs are so radically different than what we know them as (Harley especially)....that the fun factor is gone from it on the big screen.
If they looked like their JLU animated counterparts, i'd be more interested in the movie. now i have no desire to see it, and snooki joker looks even WORSE in action.
I had to shake my head at Suicide Squad trailer.
My first thouht on seeing it is that it's so blatantly trying to copy the marvel formula, right down to the guardians of the galaxy trailer with the classic music over it.
but the characters designs are so radically different than what we know them as (Harley especially)....that the fun factor is gone from it on the big screen.
If they looked like their JLU animated counterparts, i'd be more interested in the movie. now i have no desire to see it, and snooki joker looks even WORSE in action.
mattycsi
Master Member
I agree on that. I think it was because all the big moments were spoiled in the trailers. We saw bits of the fight, Clarke an Bruce first meeting, practically the whole Batman rescue of Martha was in a trailer. When they came on screen I was pretty much ticking them off. If they'd left a lot of that out the trailers it would have had more impact.
I found that confusing too, was way random to be in that condition and not get referenced.
@NeilT Well with the amount of negativity you had about the movie before going in, it was doubtful your reaction would have been anything other than that...
But why are you talking about the manor from Batman Begins ? This franchise has nothing to do with the TDK franchise, zero, nada, not a single tie-in.
But why are you talking about the manor from Batman Begins ? This franchise has nothing to do with the TDK franchise, zero, nada, not a single tie-in.
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KrangPrime
Master Member
So?
Why would that matter? I didn't like what I saw going in... I didn't like what I saw going out. but i'm still allowed to be curious about it when you like the characters in general..
With connected universes, one expects the movies to flow into one another. it's only natural to compare them even if it's yet ANOTHER SEPARATE UNIVERSE.
and the only reason we assume it is, is because bruce wayne retired at the end of the third one. if he hadn't done that, it might as well be the same universe.
When Batman picks up a kitchen sink and whacks superman unconscious...I was about ready to walk out of the theater after I litterally LOLed...
the other thing that didn't make sense..
Lois throwing away the spear to protect clark. logical. lois going after the spear again just by watching a fight...
oh, movie logic. where art thow?
I'm not reproaching it to you, but going in with an open mind would have made the experience more enjoyable, just maybe, that's all. You seem to have miss quite a few points from the movie because of that perhaps. Although a good deal is very likely because of the bad pacing and editing.
But for the universe thing, it was said way back, when they started MoS then announced BvS that this was a new universe, with a whole new set of actors and all. I don't get how any of this can be confusing ! Nolan always said his trilogy was his own self contained story.
But for the universe thing, it was said way back, when they started MoS then announced BvS that this was a new universe, with a whole new set of actors and all. I don't get how any of this can be confusing ! Nolan always said his trilogy was his own self contained story.
Snikt
Sr Member
That was a good one, I didnt think of him, but I mostly meant how many solo movies. I should have clarified that.
KrangPrime
Master Member
I must have missed that. Granted I havn't been paying too much attention to detail on this one. I just assumed it was a different universe going in, considering unless it's a direct sequel, none of WB's stuff is usually connected.
I always TRY to enjoy the movie, even if I think i'm going to hate it. I don't walk in and from the first second of film think 'this is gonna suck'..
but as the movie progresses, and it gets away from my sensibilities, it does get harder to not concentrate on that stuff, i'll give you that
.
Some more processing..
The Flash 'dream' must be setting up something else in future movies. it made no sense whatsoever. and I say 'dream' because notice in the background some papers where flying when he woke up.
I DID like the fact that this Alfred is a bit more into technical stuff, and actually helps bruce with stuff. although that's usually more l. fox's territory. although the actor playing this Aflred was rather dull and un interesting with his performance.
I'm also finally starting to get use to this version of Perry White..even though I still don't like race/gender swapping of characters. Fishborn also seems like the only one actually having fun being there. it also doesn't hurt that I picture Burn Thompson saying those exact lines to april oneil.
And seeing Amy adams in a tub would get anyone smiling too. good sigh....
that's about the only emotion Superman showed in this film. He makes meghan Fox look like an A list expressionist.
I dunno...whenever DC tries to be serious for serious take, it just comes off as goofy. The President authoring a nuclear strike to stop an unknown enemy they know nothing about, for instance.
I always TRY to enjoy the movie, even if I think i'm going to hate it. I don't walk in and from the first second of film think 'this is gonna suck'..
but as the movie progresses, and it gets away from my sensibilities, it does get harder to not concentrate on that stuff, i'll give you that
.Some more processing..
The Flash 'dream' must be setting up something else in future movies. it made no sense whatsoever. and I say 'dream' because notice in the background some papers where flying when he woke up.
I DID like the fact that this Alfred is a bit more into technical stuff, and actually helps bruce with stuff. although that's usually more l. fox's territory. although the actor playing this Aflred was rather dull and un interesting with his performance.
I'm also finally starting to get use to this version of Perry White..even though I still don't like race/gender swapping of characters. Fishborn also seems like the only one actually having fun being there. it also doesn't hurt that I picture Burn Thompson saying those exact lines to april oneil.
And seeing Amy adams in a tub would get anyone smiling too. good sigh....
that's about the only emotion Superman showed in this film. He makes meghan Fox look like an A list expressionist.
I dunno...whenever DC tries to be serious for serious take, it just comes off as goofy. The President authoring a nuclear strike to stop an unknown enemy they know nothing about, for instance.
cboath
Master Member
Ahh, man, low blow
Seriously, though, If *I* was hired to direct a movie based on a comic book, first thing I do is read all the comics I can. Only a moron does a comic movie without thoroughly going over the source material.
It'd be like doing EP IX for star wars and seeing none of the previous 8 - just idiotic.
I do lots of cartoons, or at least used to, before the feds killed saturday morning TV in the mid 90's
cboath
Master Member
Very true. Then again, when LFL allowed people to write EU books in the 90's, they issued the caveat up front - publicly - that if they were ever to do sequels that they weren't beholden to anything that was written, yet plenty of people still get anywhere from slightly upset to down right pissed off they dumped the EU.
Where I *CAN* see this being confusing to people, though, is watching the opening credits and seeing:
Executive Producer: Christopher Nolan
That, though, is the very least of the issues with this flick.
KrangPrime
Master Member
especially considering they basically started where the EU left off with Luke in self imposed exile, han having one kid left, someone major dying....;o).
I miss jaina and jag and corran ;o).
harrisonp
Sr Member
That just isn't true. He rips those SUVs to shreds with the Batwing, and directly shoots the mini gunner in the SUV. Your examples are actually the two that I balked at the least, though I still stand by my opinion that the sniper rifle and M60 were only in the movie because Snyder lives for references for reference's sake. Either of those scenes could have used a proprietary bat gadget instead. I disliked his use of the off the shelf 20mm launcher too.
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