Accurately scaled measurements for some New Vegas Weapons, Plus A Tutorial

[MLG at DOW]

Hey, everyone.

So I have been on a quest for some time to get the measurements for some of the New Vegas weapons. I want to describe how I did it first.

First thing I did was decide on something as a reference for measurement to compare the weapons to. I needed something that could be measured IRL and had a reliable size. I tried playing cards, but they seemed to big. Then I decided to base all of my measurements off of a real-world weapon. the link directly below is a website for weapons in games and the real-world guns they are inspired by.

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas

So I decided to use the 9mm pistol, which is based off of the Browning Hi-Power- which has a length of 197mm. Then, I placed the 9mm pistol next to the weapon I was measuring, and took a screenshot. Don't forget to zoom in. They came out like this:


So now it's time for math. You'll need a digital caliper and a calculator. For your math, you need to measure each gun in millimeters as close as you can with your caliper, then use scale factor. for the image above, I measured the 9mm and Plasma Defender- YOU NEED TO MEASURE THE 9MM FOR EVERY IMAGE. This is because you won't get the perfect angle when taking a screenshot each time, or you might not zoom in. So for the math, I measured the Defender to be 63.87mm and the 9mm to be 41.75mm in this picture.

So now that we have all of the measurements- we'll be using scale factor. here's the math:

1. we divide the Browning length by the measured 9mm length to get the scale factor: 197 / 41.75 = 4.71856287

2. now we multiply the answer by the measured weapon length to get the length of the weapon IRL: 4.71856287 * 63.87 = 301.374610778mm

3. Just a note, most guns lengths do not end in decimals- so we can just round the length to 301mm. Here are the lengths of the weapons I measured using this method:

10mm-39.4, 9mm- 33.3 10mm length is ~ 233mm
10mm smg- 73.07, 9mm- 49.25 10mm smg is ~ 292mm
12.7mm- 58.64, 9mm- 35.8 12.7 is ~ 323mm
Grenade launcher- 118.55, 9mm- 34.8 Gren Launcher is ~ 671mm
Heavy inc.- 126.61, 9mm- 19.86 Heavy inc. ~ 1256mm
Laser p- 44.59, 9mm- 34.16 Laser P ~ 257mm
Laser r- 67.39, 9mm- 20.6 Laser R ~ 644mm
Riot shotgun- 77.82, 9mm- 30.67 Riot ~ 500mm
Red glare- 110.33, 9mm- 23.8 Red Glare ~ 913mm
Y6- 92.49, 9mm- 21.75 Y6 ~ 838mm
Smmg- 94.22, 9mm- 21.67 Smmg ~ 857mm
Gatling- 92.41, 9mm- 21.93 Gatling ~ 830mm
Plasma def- 63.87, 9mm- 41.75 Plasm. Def. ~ 301mm
Fatman- 108.4, 9mm- 21.72 Fatman ~ 983mm
Mercy- 120.9, 9mm- 22.25 Mercy ~ 1070mm

Remember, you need to measure both the 9mm and said weapon in every screenshot for an accurate measurement of that photo.

Some weapon lengths may sound too big, like the Plasma Defender being 10 inches long, but Devs hardly ever scale every weapon. Some guns may not look as big, so they might enlarge them. the Shoulder Mounted Machine Gun sounded way to small, but when compared to the 9mm, it made more sense:



Just over 33 inches when measured and scaled. Mot a very big gun. But it's only eight pounds in-game.

The same thing can be done with Fallout 3, or any other game with objects that are accurately based off of real world objects. Good luck! And please tell me what you think! I want to know If other people are as obsessed as I am about getting accurate measurements for props- and not having props that just look gross and weird!

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

It's not on your list, but I scaled the YCS/186 to about 51" long, and have been accumulating parts and materials for my scratch-build. I'll pull out my blueprint and check the length in mm if you like.

 

[GhostMinion]

Ah, the ol' scaling debate. We've actually discussed this quite a bit here on the RPF, and I hate to tell you, but this is nothing new here. Not sure if you missed any of the threads were it was discussed (nor am I sure which threads we discussed it in), but I'll catch you up on what is already known.

There is no definitive scale, unless we're talking about guns that are real, like the mentioned Browning pistol. And even with those you have to realize that the game devs may not have gotten the exact dimensions of said 'real guns' correct. Remember, they aren't trying to make props, so if something is off a little it would be of no consequence to them or the game.

Another thing you must realize is that when scaling one of the weapon models, it will come down to preference, not what is "correct".

Let's take the 12.7mm pistol for example. You have a scale listed that would make it freakin' huge. Why? Because you scaled evenly, and in the game, it's freakin' huge. But try making it at that size. It's huge. It reminds me of a pistol Hellboy would carry. I actually made a 'Lil Devil' prop, and when I sized both my 12.7mm models, I sized them to match up with a real Sig P220 pistol that I own. In that scale, it looks much more like a real handgun. Much more.

Matching the scales really only works with the completely fictional guns. Why? Because they're not real, so who could prove you wrong. It works especially well on energy weapons (energy rifles, even more so). But what happens when you size a weapon the way you see it in game, and the grip to said weapon is twice as large as it should be? 'Should be' meaning in the realm of being believable. Or what if the grip is too small?

You see, there is no perfect formula to do this. Don't get me wrong, it helps, and can get you in the ball park. But it comes down to total preference. Do you prefer to have them look exactly like you see in the game, which at times you can clearly see that they're way oversized? Or do you prefer to tweek that size, to make it look more realistically sized? The reality is it depends on what the builder wants.

I've designed, printed and made several Fallout props, many designed for my buddy FrostGiant's web series. In almost every one, I size slightly down from this formula. Rather than use a Browning Hi Power, I compared my AK rifle to the Chinese Assault rifle. We found that certain items like the Ballistic Fist, Ripper, 12.7mm pistols and chems were a lot bigger than they'd actually look. Sizing them down made them look much more realistic, which he wanted since he's using them in the web series. Take a look, for instance, at a Stimpak in Fallout 4. If we use a real Tommy gun and size the game Tommy gun to match, the resulting scale would make a Stimpak over a foot long (or something around there, it's been a while). If you drop a stimpak next to a Tommy gun on the ground, this is how they'll be. But, the first person screen animation in which you use a Stimpak makes it look quite a bit shorter. In all the Fallout games, in the game files, you have what are called "world objects", and what are called "1st person objects" The scale can vary between the two, yet they don't always vary either.

Other guns, like basically any big gun, can use this formula just fine. Since there's nothing to compare to in real life, who would know any better? A good example would be a Plasma Rifle. Being totally fictional, who's to say how big it is? It comes down to preference.

Another thing you have to be mindful of are the dimensions of what you're trying to build. We'll use the alien blaster as an example. If you size it up the way you've described, it'll be big and goofy. But, try and size it down to something more comparative to a real handgun, and the grip comes out smaller than one might like. The trigger guard holes will be so small, you can't put your finger in it. Again, we use this to understand the fact that the game devs didn't make these models in mind with making them into props. In the game, hands simply overlap the weapons, they don't fit around them. They're just meshes that overlap each other. You can overlap a fist into the gun's stock or grip and make it look believable, but in real life it won't work that way.




So, in short. Can this formula work? Yes. Does it always work? No.

 

[Talisen]

And then there's Fallout 4. The weapons scaled depending on your character. If you're in Power Armor, the weapon scaled up in size.

 

[zapwizard]

Yep, in Fallout scale is based on the artist's eye and not reality.

This is the case for lots of video games. This is because your field of view is so wide. If a coin or holotape were actual scale then you would have a hard time even seeing it sitting on the ground ten feet away.

Funny enough, this trend is the opposite in VR games. If items aren't the correct scale, it stands out. For example people in Fallout 4 VR feel like they are just a bit too small.

So in the end, as GhostMinion said, you have to just re-adjust the scale as compare to what seems to feel correct. Typically if there is a human interface, such as a grip, then use that as best you can to set the rest of the scale.

 

[GhostMinion]

To give you a visual idea about what I'm saying here. In the picture on the left are two pistols. The top one is scaled as you say it "should" be scaled, at 323mm long. Look how much bigger it is than my custom scaled model, which comes in at 236mm long. Pretty big difference. Now look at it in my hand on the right picture. Imagine how ridiculous the bigger one would look in your hand...…...