15th Century German Knight, Horse and Pavillion

[Bossk]

Thats a nice collection. We used allot of Armor reffrence for wearing integrated in our Ironman design. I wish i had a real armor

Thanks, TMP. Even NASA studied some of the best suits of armor in their design of Astronaut Suits. In fact, Henry the VIII had a very sophisticated suit of which some of its articulation features were incorporated into "hardened" spacesuits.

 

[TECKNOVIKING]

Got to give the Gothic Germanic armour the lovin. I would love a set in that style so well done you securing all the armour & kit. That weight isn`t bad at all.

I love the old concept that if a Knight fell over they were like an upturned Turtle, struggling to get up LOL Not at all the case in the field. Sounds a lot but when distributed over the body it`s not that bad at all.

You certainly have an amazing range

Jason

 

[Bossk]

The Victorian Historians are responsible for a LOT of false commonplaces in society.
Things like the idea that Anglo-Saxons were uneducated, on the basis that they didn't leave reams of written works. The Dissolution Of The Monateries saw to the loss of MANY such books. The Battle Of Maldon (I believe) was found recycled as lining for a foreign book!!

The modern artisan's flaw is based on the same mistake that the Victorians made - They see a picture of a chap clad in armour with a big sword and assume it's heavy. They make something the same size from whatever metal, not knowing how it was made, and find a 15lb sword, for example. The next assumption is that all swordsmen were built like Arnie just to lift the damn thing.

Truth is, a Broadsword is about 2-3lbs at most. With something that light, you can easily fight for extended periods!


It's only recently, thanks in part to re-enactors and history enthusiasts, that original pieces have been properly examined and properly reproduced by modern makers.

I agree with you, but there are other reasons too. Armor WAS still worn in Victorian times. Heavy cavalry, notably the French Cuirassiers and Carbiniers wore extremely thick and heavy breasplates when muskets were still used early in Vicky's reign, but with the use of modern rifled weapons later on, this armor was lightened and really only good at deflecting swords, but still worn into battle at the beginning of WWI.

So the breasplates that people commonly had access to (Waterloo French cuirasses were a popular souvenier), were very heavy, and people assumed a complete suit of medieval armor was just as heavy. And some tournament armor was very heavy, and people didn't understand that real battle armor had to be lighter to be practical.

When modern "bad" armor is made, the same rolled sheet steel is used all around - thick enough in some places, but too thick in others. Medieval armorers on the other hand will have different thicknesses on different parts of the same helmet or breasplate, because the thickness are controlled by their working of the billet of metal.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

I love the old concept that if a Knight fell over they were like an upturned Turtle, struggling to get up LOL Not at all the case in the field. Sounds a lot but when distributed over the body it`s not that bad at all.

Slap whoever tells you this.
Then ask, if it was so heavy, what was the point in fighting in it? They'd never have bothered, else they'd have been killed instantly.


Then again, armoured suits were the stuff of poncey rich nobles, anyway.
The proper fighters wore light armour so they could move faster and fight properly. Gimme a Yeoman with a Billhook and a Brigandine/Coat-of-plates any day!!

Actually, just gimme the Brigandine. 's my favourite form of armour!!

 

[Darth Mule]

The Victorian Historians are responsible for a LOT of false commonplaces in society.

I figured that's where you were going with that. Sorry. Sarcasm doesn't travel well in type.

I agree with you, but there are other reasons too. Armor WAS still worn in Victorian times. Heavy cavalry, notably the French Cuirassiers and Carbiniers wore extremely thick and heavy breasplates when muskets were still used early in Vicky's reign, but with the use of modern rifled weapons later on, this armor was lightened and really only good at deflecting swords, but still worn into battle at the beginning of WWI.

Really? I had no idea. I don't think I've ever seen any reference to this. I would love to see some though. Victorian menswear is one of my specialties so new info is always appreciated. Most of the info one finds on wartime in the Victorian era has to do with that wee skirmish we had stateside. Actually, come to think of it, mititaria in general seems to be one of the harder to research areas of costume history. Military fashion is far more diverse and complex than civilian fashion.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

I know the Spanish sometimes wore plate and steel helms. Partly for historical reasons, I think, but maybe too for practicality... or even because they had nothing better.

 

[OldKen]

That is amazing stuff man! Too cool!

 

[Bossk]

I figured that's where you were going with that. Sorry. Sarcasm doesn't travel well in type.



Really? I had no idea. I don't think I've ever seen any reference to this. I would love to see some though. Victorian menswear is one of my specialties so new info is always appreciated. Most of the info one finds on wartime in the Victorian era has to do with that wee skirmish we had stateside. Actually, come to think of it, mititaria in general seems to be one of the harder to research areas of costume history. Military fashion is far more diverse and complex than civilian fashion.

I have both a Napoleonic era and WWI era cuirassier breastplate and the former weighs three times as much as the latter, for there was some attempt to make them musket proof. In fact, you have probably seen some of the earliest muskets that had fork sticks to support them. This is because they were much more heavily barreled than later muskets, so they could take a mor powerful charge, and better penetrate the armor that was more prevalent in the 16th and 17th centuries. But at close range, a common musket could penetrate even the thick Napoleonic era breastplates. The Army Museum in Brussels has Waterloo breastplates pierced by both musket and cannon shot.

American military uniform in the Victorian Era is first largely inspired by British style, then French, particularly during the Civil War, and then German, after the French defeat in 1870-71.

 

[TECKNOVIKING]

HAHAHA Ttsk, That was waaay back in my youth mate before the late 80s so couldn`t remember who/where told me that now anyway LOL.

If I could afford it Gothic Germanic armour would be my goal, alas it`s always been Furs & leathers (Medieval), Padded doublets (when 16th century) & very rarely headware LOL Have a nice axe dent on my head to prove the point on why you SHOULD wear headware but still didn`t learn.

Still jealous as hell over the Gothic armour Bossk. Something to truely be proud of mate.

Jason

 

[Ttaskmaster]

See, this is why Peter Jackson wanted LOTR armour designed by people who understood real armour and how it worked....


The current rumour is that knights wearing pig-face bascinets (the ones with the pointy nose) would die because they fell over and the point got stuck in the mud, drowning them!!

It's a cone shape. How does that get stuck in the mud? And why are there no period sources citing it?

That's what comes from having specialised fight directors posing as 'experts' and hosting 'factual' programmes...


Re-enactors are cool, because they put in to practice these rumours and as a result find the flaws... and often the truth!!

 

[Bossk]

I know the Spanish sometimes wore plate and steel helms. Partly for historical reasons, I think, but maybe too for practicality... or even because they had nothing better.

The Spanish wore metal armor like everyone else in Europe, but there is documentation that the Conquistadors under Cortez exchanged their iron breastplates for the quilted cotton armor of their aztec foes, because it was lighter, yet strong enough to stop the aztec arrows. They still wore their metal helmets though.

Since coming back from Europe, I am doing a yearly display at the Tennessee history festival representing Hernando De Sotos epic expedition throughout what is now the Eastern U.S. In fact, Tambo and some other 501st members joined in last year and we had our strongest group yet. Maybe he can post some of the conquistador pictures here.