ALL the helmets made for ESB came from a mold taken directly off the screen used ANH.
The faceplates and domes were individually modified for conversion into what we see in ESB. The ESB helmets were refurbished for use in ROTJ.
No brand new helmets were created for ROTJ.
The conversion from the ANH style base helmet includes the following mods.
These mods were performed individually on each helmet for ESB.
- Adding the found part flange to the top of the facemask, then hand bondo-ing the gap in the front. Real individual screws are added into the flange to better register with the corresponding ring inside the dome.
Gino, show me an original ROTJ mask that has an added on mounting ring base.
No, no, no, no, no.
The ROTJ helmets are the refurbished ESB helmets.
I believe the helmet mold in the archives (the one that produces the other set of base helmets) came about like this.
A base facemask & helmet casting from the UK mold (that spawned all the screen used ESB helmets and was made from the original ANH helmet) was sent to the US and modified (tabs removed) then remolded for the purpose of creating some of the early promo costumes in the US.
So how did you recently come to the deduction that ESB helmets came from a mold in the UK? Hmmm? You are just taking what I've stated before based on the SL/TD/TM story.
The screen ANH helmet was molded in the UK by Rick Baker. That mold went to ILM and is THE ANH mold in the archives. But it had limited use, for promotional helmets like the MP (the ESB Vader poster helmet) and the ones that Don made later on. Back in the UK, the screen helmet was molded a second time....either before or after the Rick Baker mold (I think before naturally since the tabs are intact, among other things...the only other option being that new tabs were added to the mask prior to the tour). That mold was used to make the ESB masks/helmets. Based on Brian Muir's new ROTJ helmet, it could also have been used to make the ROTJ helmets, but otherwise I think an ESB helmet was used as a template to make the six ROTJ helmets (at least six). It would not make any sense given the fight scenes in ROTJ to reuse three-year old castings that saw heavy production use.
Another reason that the ROTJ helmets could not be modified ESB originals is that every ROTJ casting with authentic lineage (the Elstree, the GH, for example) have proportionally smaller mouth triangles than an ANH/ESB mask, and they themselves are smaller as well than any ANH/ESB derived authentic mask. Now you could say this is BS, and you cannot extrapolate the size of these masks to the original ROTJ. But, you can. The ROTS mask was based on a ROTJ template clearly seen in the behind the scenes DVD. Yes, it was Trisha Bigger who thought the OT mask was asymmetrical (sagging as she put it) but what the guys did in Sydney was take the half of the OT mask that had the more fallen cheek (!!!). :confused So in essence they replicated the bad side, not the good side of the mask, yielding a sad looking ROTS Vader face. Now back to the relationship of the ROTS and ROTJ masks. The original ROTS mask is nearly the same size as authentic ROTJ masks and significantly smaller than any ANH/ESB mask. Furthermore, the mouth triangle of the ROTS mask is the same size proportionally as a ROTJ mask, but not an ANH/ESB mask. If the production crew of ROTJ used an original ESB as a template, and then that was molded as a template for use in ROTS, then the ROTS mask should have the proportions and features of an ANH/ESB mask and it doesn't, because the ROTJ and ANH/ESB masks are markedly different and not just in the way the ROTJ masks were refined. So apart from there being no logic to reusing Vader helmets from ESB when they had millions of dollars to make new helmets that would stand the rigors of the ROTJ production, the ROTJ masks have lent their own proportional signature that persists in ROTS. That is why the ROTS mask looks small in relation to the helmet. Because it is in relation to ANH/ESB. It takes more than theories to come up with lineage, it takes direct study of authentic castings in relation to the originals.
Now mind you. Anyone from the production crew who happened to score one of the base helmets from either the UK mold, or the US promo mold would be able to recast it and introduce new authentic castings into the public domain and no one would be able to tell the difference. If you think you can, you are fooling yourself. All that can be determined is whether it's lineage came from the first gen ANH mold in the UK, or the second gen mold in the US (the one for promo purposes). Thomas your SL helmet comes from that mold.
I can tell the difference but you cannot because you haven't examined any castings either from the UK or the US molds. If you did you would know how masks from those molds differ from ROTJ. And I don't need you to tell me where my helmet came from. People questioned me before on its source and Don Bies confirms the mold Rick Baker produced and that resides in the archives. The SL came from that mold in 1988. The Darth Jones helmet came from that same mold in 1992.
So now that you accept the idea I put forward of a UK and US mold, which mold do your ANH/ESB/ROTJ helmets come from? And can you tell me what the difference is between those castings in any great detail?
Not all the masks had remnants of the mounting tabs remaining. You have to grind away a portion of the tabs to fit the flange on correctly. Sometimes the production team left the remnants on, sometimes they were completely removed before adding the ring. Of the examples I've seen, it's about half one way and half the other.
Well which casting are you referring to? The Paul Allen? Describe to me what happened to the tabs on the Paul Allen. And what castings have you seen? Secret original castings that your friends own?
Yes a new mold was made for ESB (see above). But the mount was not molded in for the ESB helmets. It was an off the shelf found part (flange) that was individually applied to each base casting.
Right, so what about ROTJ....according to your theory each ROTJ mask should have that base for the mounting ring added on and not part of the casting, right?
