Constructing VERA : completed

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Done! [URL="http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?p=770074#post770074[/URL]
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Hello all.

You've seen me babble incoherently about these projects in several other threads, but it's time I start delivering some goods. (I though I might as well put both projects in the same thread since they are closely related.) In this thread I'll be posting regularly on my progress with both.

Project 1:
To build Jayne's Callahan Fullbore Autolock VERA, using a Denix AK47 replica to substitute for a Saiga shotgun (since I can't legally own one).

Project 2:
To build an all-metal replica of Jubal Early's gun (and possibly do a very small run of kits for RPFers).

Both projects involve having parts CNC milled out of aluminum. I am currently doing blueprints and 3D CAD files for all the parts. I've had a few setbacks in finding a shop willing to take on the job without asking for an insane amount of money, but it looks like that will be sorted soon. (My current estimate is that I will have the parts for Vera in hand some time mid-august, but the Early pistol may be earlier or later depending on how things go.)

I have been working on the Vera plans basically every spare minute of every day for the last four weeks and I'm finally on the home stretch. Luckily, when you break her down, Vera isn't that complex. Lots of straight edges and box-shapes. The hard parts are the flash hider (due to the pointy holes) and the stock (which has some wierd angles). Vera will have a functional trigger and lock'n'load mechanism so that I can stand in front of the mirror and say "coulda', shoulda', woulda'".

The current plan is to also have a movable (but not "functional") trigger in the Early pistol. It will slide right into a real Pachamyr rubber grip.

Now... I might as well say this right away- both of these projects may well go down the drain, especially if I lose another machinist, but they're far enough along that I'm pretty sure they'll be successful. Ok, I've babbled enough for today... here are some teaser shots of the still very much work-in-progress CAD models. Stay tuned for another signal comin' along soon.

The flash hider:


The magazine locking mechanism:


The stock, spare shell holder and buttplate (all still w.i.p.)

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

YES! This looks very promising, Joatrash! Feel free to post more pictures. :love

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Looking great Joe!

One thing, on the flash hider, the almond shaped holes shouldn't pass through at the same size, they should taper to a smaller size. If that makes any sense.

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

dr_slurpee said:

Looking great Joe!

One thing, on the flash hider, the almond shaped holes shouldn't pass through at the same size, they should taper to a smaller size. If that makes any sense.

Click to expand...

I was actually going to mention that, but I didn't know how to word it in ways people would understand. :lol

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

The holes DO taper... might just be a little hard to see. (And I've still got fine-tuning to do on all the parts anyway, so I'll probably be making the taper stronger.)

One of my concerns right now is the magazine. The original is made up of lots of separate parts, but I've going to combine a few to make machining easier.

Oh.. here's a pic of what's left of the AK replica, together with some outlines of Vera parts.

Kadajiroth said:

I was actually going to mention that, but I didn't know how to word it in ways people would understand. :lol

Click to expand...

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Hey Joe:

I sent you all those high res pics of my Early pistol.
I can take a pair of calipers to the thing and give you some inch sizes, if that will help.

Mike

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

i jsut wanted to say that id be interested if you did a fully finished, anodized ready to go VERA....

i think others might too
so maybe if you did more than one itd bring EVERYBODYS cost down

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

David Stokes said:

i jsut wanted to say that id be interested if you did a fully finished, anodized ready to go VERA....

i think others might too
so maybe if you did more than one itd bring EVERYBODYS cost down

Click to expand...

I can't imagine a fully CNC machined, anodized, assembled VERA going for less than $1,000.
The rate for the CNC mill at the last CNC shop I worked in was $95 per hour, and that was in 1992.
There is a lot of material removal involved in a machined version of VERA,
never mind fixturing costs if you are going to do a run of them.
I think interest will cool a bit when the price tag comes in.

Mike

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Mike is correct. CNC work is horribly expensive. Many shops will not even take on stuff like this. They often want to do mass-runs of parts (100's) which it's why I've had a hard time finding someone to do it. (Frankly... I still think I'm dreaming that someone has actually agreed to it and is enthusiastic about the project!)

As much as I'd like to... I can't offer any Vera parts because I can't get multiples done. Also, this isn't just a case of fitting the parts together like Lego. Once I have the parts it'll take a lot of work to put it all together and make it look good. There will be about 20 machined parts in all and there's no guarantee they'll all fit perfectly. Imagine if I collected thousands of $ from people and a couple of the parts turned out less-than-perfect because I missed something in the blueprints, (which are not simple as you will see later). The Jubal pistol is a different beast (there's an interest thread in the JY). It's only a few pieces and could possibly be done as a run (but it still won't be cheap, so I'm not really expecting enough people to jump on board).

Mike's estimate of what an assembled Vera would cost is very low... I've already broken that figure and I haven't put one screw into the thing yet! A while back, metal Pulse Rifles were going for upwards of $3K and a metal Blade Runner gun cost $1k (I think) and if you're looking to have a finished Vera done by anyone other than a licensed prop company with mass-manufacturing in China I'm pretty sure you're going to land on a similar cost. (Unless you've got a friend or family member with a CNC mill in the basement of course!)

Here's the latest progress, the magazine (black lines to be two separate parts and there are still details missing):

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

awesome project!

here's a thought... once the CNC stuff is done, maybe resin casts? not as cool as metal, but there seems to be a demand for vera from the firefly folks out there.

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

tk7602 said:

awesome project!

here's a thought... once the CNC stuff is done, maybe resin casts? not as cool as metal, but there seems to be a demand for vera from the firefly folks out there.

Click to expand...

I second that, if it wouldn't be too difficult. Yes, you're right, not anywhere near as cool as metal, but still better than nothing. I'm really interested in a Vera, too! :thumbsup

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Small update. One of my machinist contacts basically called me insane when I showed him the Early picture! He's going to check up on it but apparently all the rounded corners will make it insanely expensive to do... so I'm going to look some more into having it Rapid Protoyped and possibly cast in lead/pewter like the Sidkit Mal.

Here's an updated pic... (I just replaced the old one) still very inaccurate and rough. (It ain't easy to 3D model this thing either I can tell ya!)



As for resin... I have spoken to another RFPer about it... and nothing is impossible, but don't get your hopes up too much for Vera parts. They're not being designed with casting in mind, but to make them easily fit the AK replica. The way they will be machined will make them very hard to cast... lots of hollowed out areas and undercuts.

Kadajiroth said:

I second that, if it wouldn't be too difficult. Yes, you're right, not anywhere near as cool as metal, but still better than nothing. I'm really interested in a Vera, too! :thumbsup

Click to expand...

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

well if all else fails.... once you complete it...

i could offer you Safron as a trade?

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Now that's an offer that's very hard to refuse! Except she's got that darned habit o' swindlin' an' killin' menfolk.

David Stokes said:

well if all else fails.... once you complete it...

i could offer you Safron as a trade?

Click to expand...

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

joatrash said:

Now that's an offer that's very hard to refuse! Except she's got that darned habit o' swindlin' an' killin' menfolk.

Click to expand...

I'd take that risk if I got unfettered access to her T... oh, family forum....:eek

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

You're going to the special Hell...

Mechamaniac said:

I'd take that risk if I got unfettered access to her T... oh, family forum....:eek

Click to expand...

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

joatrash said:

You're going to the special Hell...

Click to expand...

You woulda kissed her too..:lol

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Mechamaniac said:

You woulda kissed her too..:lol

Click to expand...

I'd done a might bit more than that, I reckon...:love

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

Another update. Here's the more or less final 3d file for the entire magazine assembly. (The astute viewer will notice there are a couple of details not present since I don't need to have them machined.) The entire thing is made up of eight separate pieces.

Also, good news on the Jubal pistol! Early indications suggest Rapid Prototyping the body will be an economically viable alternative to machining.

Now here's the pic:

Re: Constructing... VERA! (and Jubal Early's pistol)

I brought my metrical calipers home from work cuz all I have at home are Americanal dial calipers.

Will post some sizes off my Jubal Early pistol tonight/tomorrow/Sunday-ish.

Mike