3D Printed Parts and Future

Rahn420

Rahn420

Well-Known Member
I had posted a thread asking about prepping 3D printed parts for painting.

A couple of things that were mentioned was how porous some materials are (needing to absorb a lot of paint) and that the Shapeways Frosted Ultra Detail was an acrylic resin.

It occurred to me to try dipping a part in Future and see what happens. My thought was that the Future would absorb into the part and 'seal' it.

When I ordered a Nav Staion chair for my DeAgostini Falcon, I ordered two to test this idea on one.

I have not yet tried the actual chair part yet, but I did try it on another part.

This is actually part of a parts tree from a printed kit to add an interior to the ramp area. These parts are of the Strong and Flexible (nylon?) variety.

I dipped half the part in Future, two times (drying, between). The Future soaked in readily. Then, I sprayed two light coats of primer.

This was the result.

P1010228_zps9letuenn.jpgP1010229_zpsw1luaekt.jpg

Any thoughts? Good, bad, 'why?', been there, done that...
 
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The main problem with the nylon is that you can't sand it, nor can you really saw it. (The heat from sawing actually melts it instead of cutting.) So you have to fill it with a LOT of primer or sealant and build up a surface from which to sand. (I've seen folks seal it with superglue to make it easier to sand, but by my reckoning that would also make it more brittle... like frozen tree branches in winter.) It's also pretty poor on preserving details. Once you've added enough primer and paint, it will look "soft" if you are thinking of using it for small items. You CAN do really nice things with the nylon, but it was to be with simple shapes that are not going to lose detail. (I stopped using nylon the day i got my own printer... PLA printed on a good machine is just so much better. Sh*peways does PLA too, but I've never seen a part in person, so I can't gauge the quality.) The Frosted Ultra should be your go-to for tiny things like cockpit seats that don't have to withstand any kind of wear or pressure because it has good detail but is fragile. For "makers", they are also testing a new type of black resin that looks to be able to kick the crap out of the Ultra Frosted in terms of detail, but right now you can only print your own models in it.
 
JOATRASH FX said:
The main problem with the nylon is that you can't sand it, nor can you really saw it..
Click to expand...

That's good to know. I was going to try sanding.

They did offer some of the visible interior parts in FXD, with the mechanical parts in nylon. But, or something that would be rarely seen, I couldn't justify the expense.

With the quality getting better and prices getting lower, I would like to have a printer... someday.
 
Rahn420 said:
The difference is subtle, but I think better.

The surface is less rough, less pits. The edges of the letters look smoother. (maybe it's just me?)
Click to expand...

SmoothER, yes but you can get it glass-smooth with spray filler-primer instead of regular primer. Dipping in something like Future is just going to add unnecessary weight to it. If you use filler-primer instead and do a couple heavier coats, the surface tension of the primer will fill up the grain and leave you with a surface you can sand, without having to "fill" the core of the part.

- - - Updated - - -

Also... if you're gonna do the nylon, try "3d print UK". It's a company in England that has the same stuff, but a lot cheaper, and if I recall correctly they have their machines set at the highest resolution as standard.
 
I already have the parts, but I will have to check out 3D Print UK. Do they ship to the US?

I think some of the shapes and details will be difficult to sand on/around.

P1010236_zpstratdx3j.jpg

I was trying to see how much I could smooth it at a surface level, before adding layers of paint on top.

I was hoping the 'thinness' of the Future might help with that.

It was just an 'uneducated' thought to try.
 
Rahn420 said:
I already have the parts, but I will have to check out 3D Print UK. Do they ship to the US?

I think some of the shapes and details will be difficult to sand on/around.



I was trying to see how much I could smooth it at a surface level, before adding layers of paint on top.

I was hoping the 'thinness' of the Future might help with that.

It was just an 'uneducated' thought to try.
Click to expand...

I think they ship tot eh US.

But yeah, that's going to be hard to sand. You're started, so you might as well see if even more future will help fill it out but eventually is will start pooling along all the edges due to surface tension. The parts are thin enough that adding weight is not going to be an issue for you.I've never used future (don't have it here in Sweden). Is it flexible at all? If not, you will be making the parts brittle just like with superglue. Something to keep in mind.
 
Brittleness is, again, something I had not considered. I didn't think it would be an issue.

I've only used Future for decal glossing and sealing, which is a thin application.

I've never seen it crack... yet

Just for fun, I'll have to take two pieces, dip one and see if one breaks any easier than the other.
 
Rahn420 said:
I already have the parts, but I will have to check out 3D Print UK. Do they ship to the US?

I think some of the shapes and details will be difficult to sand on/around.

View attachment 727175

I was trying to see how much I could smooth it at a surface level, before adding layers of paint on top.

I was hoping the 'thinness' of the Future might help with that.

It was just an 'uneducated' thought to try.
Click to expand...

I mean, isn't that how we come up with new techniques! Great idea! And I do see the subtle difference in your pictures. I say keep exploring it and see how things go! If we all keep doing the same things that everyone else is doing, then nothing ever changes.

I'm certainly going to give it a try with my parts.
 
Rahn420 said:
Brittleness is, again, something I had not considered. I didn't think it would be an issue.

I've only used Future for decal glossing and sealing, which is a thin application.

I've never seen it crack... yet

Just for fun, I'll have to take two pieces, dip one and see if one breaks any easier than the other.
Click to expand...

'Future' (Or Pledge Floor Care as it is called now) is essentially liquid plastic in a bottle. It was intended for restoring and protecting vinyl linoleum flooring. It is flexible because the linoleum/vinyl substrate that it sits on is also flexible. It has amazing leveling properties and when applied in enough coats it will dry to a high gloss. I have used it to fix small cracks and scratches in clear canopies so that they look perfect by dipping the entire canopy into a jar of the stuff and setting it out on a paper towel to dry.

I would think that Future would do a good job of filling in the pores and creating a smooth surface once it has dried and cured.

I have the Zvezda garbage chute and shield generator domes in frosted ultra detail and plan on doing a very light spritz of primer, and after it dries - airbrushing the Future in several thin coats before I paint the model.
 
I can't see from those images - is it working well? I had wondered about sealing passes and whether they help or not?

I have been doing a lot of sanding of shapeways nylon strong white flexible plastic recently, and these are some of the shortcuts I have noted. DaveG helped me enormously with getting a smooth finish, credit to him.

The nylon is hard, so before filler primer, make sure you wear it down as much as you can without compromising detail with a wet sand grit 300 or so. It may seem like the sanding isn't working but it is. The SWF print usually has 2 surface types - porous areas and stepped print line areas. A first sanding before any paint will take out *some* of the print lines. It seems like the porous parts with fine holes don't really change much with this initial sand, but it takes off some of the excess which makes a smoother first coat.

Then when doing the filler primer pass, I am really generous with the paint. I do 5 coats of the stuff with 20 minute breaks in between. You should notice at first the filler primer forms a dusty porous surface. I persist and keep going until the filler primer creates a sealed paint layer which is smooth. You may get dripping, but I've found this doesn't matter as it will be sanded back anyway. Sometimes getting close to the print and creating those drips is a quick way to get a thick layer of primer on at once.

Then I sand back with 300 grit and keep going with this same process. Thanks to Dave G here http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=274637
 
I use Future in so many applications, I have no doubt it would fill the res lines. The closest to this application I've done is dip resin. I cast resin chess pieces (zombie heads) and sand and clean the mold lines, square up and fill the bases with weight. Then I drop them all in a vat of Future with a bit of dye and let them soak it up overnight. Pull them and place them on a mat to wick the excess away and dry. It's a great, resident finish that fills all the sanding marks and abrasions.

The self-leveling properties are amazing with the stuff, my only concern would be getting the balance of filling the res lines, but not obliterating detail. It'd be hard to judge until it was painted. Broad surfaces would be fine, it could be knocked down with sanding or polishing, but intricate details would be something else.
 
I finally got around to dipping the Nav Chair.

On the left, The Cockpit Chair (in FXD) was primed and painted, no sanding.

On the right, The Nav Chair (in FUD) was dipped twice in Future then sprayed with Tamiya TS-82 Rubber Black, no primer, no sanding.

P1010250_zpsamepkbbj.jpg
 
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