Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
I understand what you mean in principle - yet I didn't feel this was the case here. It's a matter of personal perception so I'm not going to argue about how you should have appreciated R1. I do consider myself pretty sensitive to films that insert socially underrepresented characters just to pander to political correctness (and there are many of them), but I didn't perceive that in R1 nor did I in TFA. I think the female leads were imbued with sufficient agency that I found them interesting and relatable characters before I saw them as female characters. Remember a while back when Lucas (and Spielberg) was criticized for the paucity of black characters in his films? It only dawned on me not too long ago that Disney managed to pull off TFA with a female and black lead without me even considering this could be perceived as a play for PCness.
astroboy
Master Member
To me, the three biggest problems in Hollywood are:
1.Completely uncreative reboots that bank on nostalgia, rather than telling new stories
2. Over reliance on disaster porn climax's. They rarely fit the scale of the movie. There are other ways to tell a story
3. A lack of diversity.
If they take care of the first two, then no one will notice that they are actively trying to fix the third.
That was the problem with Ghostbusters. They put that third problem at the forefront of everything and they got lazy with the other two.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
1.Completely uncreative reboots that bank on nostalgia, rather than telling new stories
2. Over reliance on disaster porn climax's. They rarely fit the scale of the movie. There are other ways to tell a story
3. A lack of diversity.
If they take care of the first two, then no one will notice that they are actively trying to fix the third.
That was the problem with Ghostbusters. They put that third problem at the forefront of everything and they got lazy with the other two.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
KrangPrime
Master Member
i really wish i could go deeper into this, but people get too upset and don't see what is trying to be said..especially when i say what i feel as that tends to really blind 'em.
I'll just leave it at that. put this one back on track
Snikt
Sr Member
*cough*donnieyenscharacter*cough*
I just felt that Rey acted so much better than Jyn did. Sorry, I dont know their names off the top of my head. Granted Rey probably had more to work with, but its the same thing, the audience was introduced to these characters with nothing previous, and look how one turned out, and look at the other. I just felt the acting was apples to oranges. For me at least. Who knows, maybe I need to watch it again. You know why you didnt think that? Cause it was well done. I feel like rogue one was checking off the list of every available ethinicity. The only one I thought was missing was maybe a jewish person.
Last edited:
Snikt
Sr Member
I think the "lack of diversity" is just because of the times. How could that not be a problem, ever, until now?
I don't have a problem with Donnie Yen at all. I grant that, this character might not have existed at all were it not for the Chinese market Disney is trying to crack but I thought his character was well integrated and his background enriched the mythology. Regardless of the impetus it's all in the execution and I felt he was executed well. SW has been applying kendo-styled fighting (ANH) and all out wushu (TPM) from the start.*cough*donnieyenscharacter*cough*
You see, I didn't feel that was true about R1 either. Each character was credible in their role as part of a war movie. If you know that genre (which is all but defunct) you will know that the films were more about the title mission than the individual characters' internal arcs. Have you ever seen The Wild Bunch? There was even less exposition about these characters than the R1 characters. Watch this film with the same eyes as you'd watch The Wild Bunch and you might appreciate what the filmmakers were trying to accomplish.
... or not.
Last edited:
KrangPrime
Master Member
i dunno.
despite her mary sueness, i thought rey was a tad more fun to watch and root for.
Jyn, despite being the main character, felt more like a background character to me that, just like all the others, felt like we where passing them by. none of them really stood out to me they way Rey and Finn did.
despite her mary sueness, i thought rey was a tad more fun to watch and root for.
Jyn, despite being the main character, felt more like a background character to me that, just like all the others, felt like we where passing them by. none of them really stood out to me they way Rey and Finn did.
One of the differences between a character like Jyn and Rey is that there is really nothing inherently exceptional about Jyn's abilities. She's not imbued with untapped superhuman force potential nor is she someone whose coming was foretold by ancient lore or even an ace pilot. But that makes her story more human and relatable. Jyn is a tragic child of circumstance struggling her whole life with faith. What makes Jyn heroic is not that she's a "chosen one" but the choices she ultimately makes and her will to do right - even without the support of the Rebellion behind her. Jyn is flawed and broken - just like the Captain. In the end we don't even know that they would be remembered as they make the ultimate sacrifice.
So, yes, Jyn is nothing like Rey. R1 is a different kind of story from the rest of SW. But these are the kind of characters I tend to love the most.
Last edited:
Zombie_61
Master Member
There is no way possible to make every Star Wars fan happy, because every fan has their own ideas about what Star Wars is and/or should be. Even in this thread people have expressed differing opinions. "They should have done this," "They shouldn't have done that," and so on. That's not unique to the Star Wars franchise, but it exists. It's human nature. The best Disney and Lucasfilm (or any filmmaker, for that matter) can hope for is to make most of the fans happy. So far, Rogue One seems to be doing that.
crabra comander
Master Member
I think people get more upset with your blankets statements, your over generalizations, your broad brush strokes if you will: You state you feel scared for the future of Star Wars. I would be saying the exact opposite after the decent turnouts for this R1 and the excellent turnout for TFA...regardless of older fans opinions, this resonated with the newer crowd...That's a good thing.
You made some statement about feminism but, this is Star Wars, and Princess Leia was always a strong character, even when she was choking out Jabba in a bikini.
I get the Chinese angle too, but Donnie Yen has been in the US market since Blade II! Hell, I want these Asian characters on my team! The whole team of The Raid was in TFA and I wanted to see them kick ass! Hell, they were pandering to mean when I saw those guys. The Asian market appeals to people beyond the Asian market. It's why I'm excited to see the new GiTS...it will be bringing something less mainstream into the mainstream. I keep telling guys at work, "Ghost in The Shell and Ninja Scroll is why where badass anime started!"
Anyways, TL;DR the franchise is doing pretty damn good all things considered.
You made some statement about feminism but, this is Star Wars, and Princess Leia was always a strong character, even when she was choking out Jabba in a bikini.
I get the Chinese angle too, but Donnie Yen has been in the US market since Blade II! Hell, I want these Asian characters on my team! The whole team of The Raid was in TFA and I wanted to see them kick ass! Hell, they were pandering to mean when I saw those guys. The Asian market appeals to people beyond the Asian market. It's why I'm excited to see the new GiTS...it will be bringing something less mainstream into the mainstream. I keep telling guys at work, "Ghost in The Shell and Ninja Scroll is why where badass anime started!"
Anyways, TL;DR the franchise is doing pretty damn good all things considered.
i really wish i could go deeper into this, but people get too upset and don't see what is trying to be said..especially when i say what i feel as that tends to really blind 'em.
I'll just leave it at that. put this one back on track
Okay, how about this one--if the star destroyer could track the Tantive IV to Tatooine, why couldn't they just track the rest of the ships back to Yavin IV?
Guys, I'm just throwing out stuff that crossed my mind. In all honesty I have no problem with the movie or any of this stuff. Just trying to keep the conversation going.
IMO, there was only Vader's ship left and he was chasing the Tantive IV. So no one else was around to chase anyone else. Also, reading again someone mentioned that the survivors surely jumped multiple times so as to keep the base secret.
KrangPrime
Master Member
Re Asian Market. I agree. Although i'd like to see more asians be less ninja's and mystical and more, well, themselves. Where is the first asian super hero? have we had that yet?
and no, chinese superman doesn't count
. the problem i have with that is that it's pandering to a communist country. the people of that country i have no real problem with...just the communism part and us bending over backward to try and comply with it to get in there and the movies suffer as a result. I forgot that XMen Days of Future Past went to china to save the world IIRC with their time skip thing and groaned out loud .and that's just the thing. We've grown up with strong characters thanks to the Good Princess introducing us to them at a very young age. Star Wars is built so that it doesn't matter WHO leads, so long as they are a good character. that's why i don't understand why they made Rey a mary sue to show us 'women are good at everything and can kick ass'. yes, we know this. thanks to princess leia. and if you've grown up with star wars, women being tough and kicking ass is something you never needed to just accept cause it was always there, and always awesome. it's like they are going backwards..and hence why i think they did the reshoots to make jynn seem less mary sue (we rebel....ugh).
this is why i've never liked, and thankfully haven't seen much of the dumb blonde stereo type. my first introduction to blonde people was penny from inspector gadget. a Super Spy at age 10
.- - - Updated - - -
can someone get james earl jones to say this please?
Father
Sr Member
Saw it tonight in Tokyo. First time I've seen a movie in the theatre in a non-english speaking place. It was in 3D, English withjwithj subtitles. I was the only one laughing at the jokes.
Overall I loved it. The scale was amazing. Loved seeing ships in front of the Death Star to give it scale.
LOVED CGI Tarkin and Leia. Amazing.
Loved the ending connection to E4.
Was Vader missing the chain that holds his cape on?
Loved the Vader chamber.
Whitaker was surprisingly not that annoying.
Overall it fit well in the SWU.
Overall I loved it. The scale was amazing. Loved seeing ships in front of the Death Star to give it scale.
LOVED CGI Tarkin and Leia. Amazing.
Loved the ending connection to E4.
Was Vader missing the chain that holds his cape on?
Loved the Vader chamber.
Whitaker was surprisingly not that annoying.
Overall it fit well in the SWU.
firesprite
Master Member
Re Asian Market. I agree. Although i'd like to see more asians be less ninja's and mystical and more, well, themselves. Where is the first asian super hero? have we had that yet?
and no, chinese superman doesn't count
and that's just the thing. We've grown up with strong characters thanks to the Good Princess introducing us to them at a very young age. Star Wars is built so that it doesn't matter WHO leads, so long as they are a good character. that's why i don't understand why they made Rey a mary sue to show us 'women are good at everything and can kick ass'. yes, we know this. thanks to princess leia. and if you've grown up with star wars, women being tough and kicking ass is something you never needed to just accept cause it was always there, and always awesome. it's like they are going backwards..and hence why i think they did the reshoots to make jynn seem less mary sue (we rebel....ugh).
this is why i've never liked, and thankfully haven't seen much of the dumb blonde stereo type. my first introduction to blonde people was penny from inspector gadget. a Super Spy at age 10
- - - Updated - - -
can someone get james earl jones to say this please?
Okay. I'm going to say this yet again. I am sick and tired of people labeling Rey as a Mary Sue.
Per Know your Meme: "cementing the definition of a Mary Sue to be a wish-fulfillment outlet for the author which can sometime seem out of place in the established universe and ultimately warps the canon characters’ personalities, causing them to act out of character."
Who, exactly, do you feel acted out of character toward Rey?
Han’s behavior was consistent with his arc with Luke: Initially surly, but growing to respect and care for the naïve younger man.
Chewie’s behavior toward Rey was… well, frankly, almost non-existent.
Oh, no, Leia hugged her. Well, guess what? Sometimes women hug people, even people we don’t know, if we know they’ve just gone through something traumatic.
And then there’s the definition stated on Wikipedia: A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment.[1] Sometimes the name is reserved only for women, and male Sues are called "Gary Stus" or "Marty Stus"; but more often the name is used for both sexes.
If you want to push that definition, I will counter that by that logic, Luke and Han are Marty Stus.
Similar threads
