Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Post-release)

I was always under the impression that Tarkin had full freedom to use the Death Star pretty much as he pleased, including choosing which planets to target. It seemed that by the time of ANH Tarkin was the highest ranking member of the Imperial military and had the full trust of the Emperor and was given free reign to do what he pleased since he was completely loyal to the Empire and the Emperor and knew what he was doing. It was also mentioned in the dialogue that the Imperial Senate had been disbanded and now Moffs would govern their sectors directly and given the freedom to govern how they pleased.
Pretty much this. I just read the novel TARKIN and it illustrates the relationship built between the Emperor, Tarkin and Vader.

The Emperor's plan was once the Empire's iron rule was solidified, he and his apprentice could focus on the whole Sith thing more, thus the need go Governor's like Tarkin to keep the Empire in line for him.

Death Stars blowing up really rained on the Emperor's picnic however.

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the fact that they don't like the rather more fantastical elements of the star wars saga makes me feel they are aging out of it as they grow older. i wonder if their review would have been different say, mid 80s.
I don't think it's about fans "aging out" of Star Wars at all.

Let me put it this way.

In 1977 ANH was a very special movie to me for many reasons. I remember the universe being realized with detail that was unheard of in a sci-fi film. What brought the film to life, at least for me, was the minutiae of daily life: Blue milk at the breakfast table (not glowing space-juice but just blue milk), Aunt Beru tossing veggies in what could very well be an ordinary food processor, shady Jawas selling grey market droids and known for ripping off customers, Han wiping his hands with a rag saying the Millennium Falcon has a lot of mods (like a hot rod), stormtroopers talking about the BT-16 ... The important thing is that these weren't details simply shoved on the screen but were mundane elements nested in the corners of the exposition which enriched the background.

All these details were an aspect of Star Wars that made the universe real to my imagination. And I imagined the daily lives of people who populated these places. I imagined what the life of a moisture farmer might be like and what happened every "season" that Uncle Owen referred to. I imagined each character in the Cantina having a backstory. This is the stuff that excited me the most about Star Wars and this was an aspect ANH did more than any other film in SW. It's also a big reason why I enjoy ANH over ESB.

As the series progressed there was less of those details and SW focused more and more on just the principal characters and the fantasy aspect. I still loved SW but I missed the small details that ANH had. I don't think I was the only one who imagined that the story of galactic civil war wasn't only the Skywalker story. I wanted to know the story of the countless other lives and, in R1, I got some of this. Just the proposal of R1 tells me there were folks of my generation who saw the same things I saw in ANH and missed it as much as I did.

R1 wasn't just conceived to inflate the franchise. It's an exploration of something that was alluded to in ANH but never had a chance to be fully realized. R1 exists for a reason. There are some folks who "get" that and I'm one of them. I hope there will be many more films like it.
 
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I don't think it's about fans "aging out" of Star Wars at all.

Let me put it this way.

In 1977 ANH was a very special movie to me for many reasons. I remember the universe being realized with detail that was unheard of in a sci-fi film. What brought the film to life, at least for me, was the minutiae of daily life: Blue milk at the breakfast table (not glowing space-juice but just blue milk), Aunt Beru tossing veggies in what could very well be an ordinary food processor, shady Jawas selling grey market droids and known for ripping off customers, Han wiping his hands with a rag saying the Millennium Falcon has a lot of mods (like a hot rod), stormtroopers talking about the BT-16 ... The important thing is that these weren't details that weren't simply shoved on the screen but were mundane elements nested in the corners of the exposition which enriched the background.

All these details were an aspect of Star Wars that made the universe real to my imagination. And I imagined the daily lives of people who populated these places. I imagined what the life of a moisture farmer might be like and what happened every "season" that Uncle Owen referred to. I imagined each character in the Cantina having a backstory. This is the stuff that excited me the most about Star Wars and this was an aspect ANH did more than any other film in SW. It's also a big reason why I enjoy ANH over ESB.

As the series progressed there was less of those details and SW focused more and more on just the principal characters and the fantasy aspect. I still loved SW but I missed the small details that ANH had. I don't think I was the only one who imagined that the story of galactic civil war wasn't only the Skywalker story. I wanted to know the story of the countless other lives and, in R1, I got some of this. Just the proposal of R1 tells me there were folks of my generation who saw the same things I saw in ANH and missed it as much as I did.

R1 wasn't just conceived to inflate the franchise. It's an exploration of something that was alluded to in ANH but never had a chance to be fully realized. R1 exists for a reason. There are some folks who "get" that and I'm one of them. I hope there will be many more films like it.

Awesome post. See, i felt that way the first time I saw ANH as well. Granted I didnt see it when it came out, I saw it in 89(born in 82) and even at a young age, it affected me like that. I got NONE of that same feeling from Rogue one. And I really wanted it. Maybe I was yearning for it and didnt get it. The only pay off I got, that was a "hell yeah" jumping at the screen moment was Darth Vader at the end. A little when the X Wings came in. Other than that... *shrugh*
 
I don't think it's about fans "aging out" of Star Wars at all.

Let me put it this way.

In 1977 ANH was a very special movie to me for many reasons. I remember the universe being realized with detail that was unheard of in a sci-fi film. What brought the film to life, at least for me, was the minutiae of daily life: Blue milk at the breakfast table (not glowing space-juice but just blue milk), Aunt Beru tossing veggies in what could very well be an ordinary food processor, shady Jawas selling grey market droids and known for ripping off customers, Han wiping his hands with a rag saying the Millennium Falcon has a lot of mods (like a hot rod), stormtroopers talking about the BT-16 ... The important thing is that these weren't details that weren't simply shoved on the screen but were mundane elements nested in the corners of the exposition which enriched the background.

All these details were an aspect of Star Wars that made the universe real to my imagination. And I imagined the daily lives of people who populated these places. I imagined what the life of a moisture farmer might be like and what happened every "season" that Uncle Owen referred to. I imagined each character in the Cantina having a backstory. This is the stuff that excited me the most about Star Wars and this was an aspect ANH did more than any other film in SW. It's also a big reason why I enjoy ANH over ESB.

As the series progressed there was less of those details and SW focused more and more on just the principal characters and the fantasy aspect. I still loved SW but I missed the small details that ANH had. I don't think I was the only one who imagined that the story of galactic civil war wasn't only the Skywalker story. I wanted to know the story of the countless other lives and, in R1, I got some of this. Just the proposal of R1 tells me there were folks of my generation who saw the same things I saw in ANH and missed it as much as I did.

R1 wasn't just conceived to inflate the franchise. It's an exploration of something that was alluded to in ANH but never had a chance to be fully realized. R1 exists for a reason. There are some folks who "get" that and I'm one of them. I hope there will be many more films like it.

i definitely get that.


but part of the reason why we lost that is that it makes the movie seem MUCH slower.

as life got faster, audiences cared less about atmosphere and nuance and wanted to go go go go. simple shots like the death star coming out of hyperspace and tarken signaling one of his men something before leia is brought in would get cut these days.. the scene with the veggies would most likely get cut altogether as non essential and go straight to luke speeding off.

Plus, I think once you establish that side of other galaxy life, you don't need to use it as much to set up the action cause people will fill it in with their mind. that first one was meant to show the smaller world, and then the much larger world that luke was entering later where that kind of stuff didn't matter.

although I do agree. i miss the small nuances and slower pace that showed detail.that's one thing i agreed with on the podcast. wide shots that showed the action of the universe versus bad quick action shots that go go go...
 
Well, Bail planned to send Leia to get Obi-Wan before the Scarif battle, so why would Leia be at Scarif? As someone mentioned earlier Leia getting the plans was incidental, the big rebel ship received the transmission and only passed it on to the Tantive when they were boarded. But why was the Tantive there to begin with?
Easy. Leia was hungry, and the seafood on Scarif was not only much better than the seafood on Tatooine, but it had a lot less sand in it.
 
i definitely get that.


but part of the reason why we lost that is that it makes the movie seem MUCH slower.

as life got faster, audiences cared less about atmosphere and nuance and wanted to go go go go. simple shots like the death star coming out of hyperspace and tarken signaling one of his men something before leia is brought in would get cut these days.. the scene with the veggies would most likely get cut altogether as non essential and go straight to luke speeding off.

Plus, I think once you establish that side of other galaxy life, you don't need to use it as much to set up the action cause people will fill it in with their mind. that first one was meant to show the smaller world, and then the much larger world that luke was entering later where that kind of stuff didn't matter.

although I do agree. i miss the small nuances and slower pace that showed detail.that's one thing i agreed with on the podcast. wide shots that showed the action of the universe versus bad quick action shots that go go go...
All true.

It's a sign of the times they don't make films like that anymore. I hate to think it also means that today's generation doesn't have the attention span to appreciate these movies. This is also why a film like Lawrence of Arabia isn't likely to be made today - the slow exposition. That's why those kinds of epics will be displaced by quicker moving narratives, like Saving Private Ryan. SPR is a good film but not nearly as epic as a David Lean film.
 
I'm I the only one that thinks that Ben sounds a bit creepy "...only Imperial storm troopers are so precise.", He surely knew what happened by then and let
Luke go see for himself, but it's almost like he knew it would happen, and let it happen so Luke would go with him.

Probably because "Sandies" are more precise than your general run of the mill TKs.
 
I agree with the point about the first one seeming real. I had never seen any sort of sci fi/fantasy that actually seemed real to me. Plus, it was about a star WAR. At that point in time (at least to me) The Skywalker saga and The Force were just side notes. It was more about just a war in space. Even TESB, for all its greatness, kind of let me down. It seemed the actual "war" stuff pretty much ends after the snow battle. From then on out it's just The Skywalker Saga. Yes, I realize that is what it was always supposed to be about, but that is not my point.

For me Rogue One brought back the actual war stuff. And I like that.
 
IMO there are plenty of things in R1 that keep the fantastical. There are plenty of Alien peoples and those look better than ever. Ships, space battle, different planets, new bad guys. Can't imagine watching this and going "Ho hum, such boring visuals"
 
Finally got to see Rogue One the other day after a hectic holiday. I'll need to see it a couple of times to really feel it out but it did have two immediate impacts. One, it's a really beautiful looking movie (duh) that did a great job of capturing the lived-in look of A New Hope. The filmmakers clearly put a lot of love into making this movie. And two, it made me realize that Star Wars doesn't really feel like Star Wars without John Williams.

That's not to bash the R1 music. I thought it was fine and even effective at times and it's cool that they tried something different. But Williams injects so much detail and personality into his scores that they really affect how you interpret what you're seeing on screen. His music isn't just in the background, it's always busy adding another dimension with mystery and humor and a general otherworldliness that lifts Star Wars to a whole different level. It's something I've always been aware of but R1 really hammered it home.

Anyway, that was the biggest take away I had to my first viewing of R1. I look forward to another viewing.

One final note: I thought they absolutely nailed that last scene with Vader. That's the nightmare boogeyman that terrified me as an 8 year old in 1977 (hey, it was a simpler time!). And as he slashes his way down the hallway and the camera swings to the close up of that one rebel soldier who lets out a blood curdling scream, it actually gave me a cold shiver.
 
I agree with the point about the first one seeming real. I had never seen any sort of sci fi/fantasy that actually seemed real to me. Plus, it was about a star WAR. At that point in time (at least to me) The Skywalker saga and The Force were just side notes. It was more about just a war in space. Even TESB, for all its greatness, kind of let me down. It seemed the actual "war" stuff pretty much ends after the snow battle. From then on out it's just The Skywalker Saga. Yes, I realize that is what it was always supposed to be about, but that is not my point.

For me Rogue One brought back the actual war stuff. And I like that.
Well put!
The Force was supposed to be a forgotten faith. Now it seems that the entire Rebellion believes in it. The Force seemed a lot more interesting as a long lost and mysterious religion.
And Star Wars definitely used to be more about the war before it (de)evolved into the Skywalker and Force Saga.
 
Finally got to see Rogue One the other day after a hectic holiday. I'll need to see it a couple of times to really feel it out but it did have two immediate impacts. One, it's a really beautiful looking movie (duh) that did a great job of capturing the lived-in look of A New Hope. The filmmakers clearly put a lot of love into making this movie. And two, it made me realize that Star Wars doesn't really feel like Star Wars without John Williams.

That's not to bash the R1 music. I thought it was fine and even effective at times and it's cool that they tried something different. But Williams injects so much detail and personality into his scores that they really affect how you interpret what you're seeing on screen. His music isn't just in the background, it's always busy adding another dimension with mystery and humor and a general otherworldliness that lifts Star Wars to a whole different level. It's something I've always been aware of but R1 really hammered it home.

Anyway, that was the biggest take away I had to my first viewing of R1. I look forward to another viewing.

One final note: I thought they absolutely nailed that last scene with Vader. That's the nightmare boogeyman that terrified me as an 8 year old in 1977 (hey, it was a simpler time!). And as he slashes his way down the hallway and the camera swings to the close up of that one rebel soldier who lets out a blood curdling scream, it actually gave me a cold shiver.
Totally agree with your assessment of JW's music. It's not simply background music, it's another character altogether. And though I really did like the new score, it wasn't Star Wars. Williams quoted his earlier work. A lot. Being as close to SW77 as it was, R1 could have quoted that score a lot more.

Still, a really good movie.

Oh yeah - it also needed the crawl.

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Finally got to see Rogue One the other day after a hectic holiday. I'll need to see it a couple of times to really feel it out but it did have two immediate impacts. One, it's a really beautiful looking movie (duh) that did a great job of capturing the lived-in look of A New Hope. The filmmakers clearly put a lot of love into making this movie. And two, it made me realize that Star Wars doesn't really feel like Star Wars without John Williams.

Michael Giacchino makes background music. Dull, lifeless, disposable background music.

John Williams' music is completely different. It seamlessly integrates into the films. For me, Williams' music is evocative and becomes the touchstone for this or that scene, to the point where all I need to hear are a few strains of his score, and I'm instantly transported in my mind to that scene. I can picture everything, and what's more, I can feel it.

Giacchino, on the other hand, might evoke emotion in this or that moment, but there's zero way I'll remember it later.

Now, some of that may be because he hasn't quite found someone who'll create a movie that's up to his talents. Or maybe his talents aren't up to the films he's scored. But I gotta say, his work has been mightily unimpressive to me, with the absolute worst example being his score for Star Trek '09. Mike Verta actually had a very incisive criticism of Giacchino's score for ST09, in that it basically just plays the same brief theme only louder or softer, depending on the needs of the scene.

I will say that R1 shows a marked improvement for him, and that I did get choked up a few times during the film (mostly because of the relationship between Jyn and her father, and thinking about my own daughter), but his music was good enough that I could feel that in the moment. So, hey, maybe he's getting better and/or getting better material. But he has a long way to go before he'll fill the Grand Canyon sized shoes of John Williams.

One final note: I thought they absolutely nailed that last scene with Vader. That's the nightmare boogeyman that terrified me as an 8 year old in 1977 (hey, it was a simpler time!). And as he slashes his way down the hallway and the camera swings to the close up of that one rebel soldier who lets out a blood curdling scream, it actually gave me a cold shiver.

Yeah, I really appreciated that sequence. Vader was terrifying in that scene, and appropriately so. Although I'm still annoyed that the Tantive IV was there at all, and that we didn't see him carving a swath through ranks of troopers headed to a different ship altogether, which in turn beamed the plans to Leia's ship just before it jumped to the Tatooine system.
 
I wonder who the actor was playing the Imperial officer left standing when Vader quickly left the bridge to go & get to his shuttle.....he looked very like an ESB aged Jeremy Bullock:

Jeremy.jpg

J
 
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