12 Parsec Detective Agency : putting the dampers on falcon's and Y's

Vacformedhero

Sr Member
I wanted to break out specific miniature part maps to really hone in on the actual kits used during filming ,
the first in the series is the Damper assemblies from the front of the Y-Wing engine nacelles and the rear of the 5 foot Millennium Falcon.

Firstly the original ship with this sub assembly was Red Jammer followed closely by Tie Killer , the following Y-Wings utilised recasting of these parts .

As the millennium falcon was firstly and elongated design that ultimately became the Tantive V, in the rush to complete the five foot falcon many subassemblies used on the Y-wing were reused all over the falcons details.
In this thread let's concentrate on the damper assembly

the three identified items are
Modified hitch assembly from 1/9 ESCI /Revell / Dragon Kettenkrad
Two Landing gear legs from 1/24 Bandai Messerschmidt bf109e
Box assembly from the root of 1/35 Tamiya of Panzerkampfwagon cannon .

My first item for confirmation is the Box piece, I have reviewed a lot of scans of tamiya panzer sets and opened a lot of kit boxes without seeing this same Box with a recess along the edges and two dimples on two sides ( ILM model makers could have altered it but let's presume it's as it came from the kit )
does anyone know the exact kit this from ?

IMG_2808.JPGIMG_3198.JPGIMG_2809.JPGView attachment IMG_6824.JPGView attachment IMG_6839.JPGView attachment IMG_6840.JPG

But it this is all a warm up for the triangular piece fitted to the Kettenkrad tow hitch
I want everyone to start thinking about possible places this can come from
I've been looking at tank hull corners , bridges and spars .
IMG_4784.JPG

One thing that that stands out on the triangular piece , is the two rivet details , one larger than the other , this type of mismatch of rivet sizes was typical on British and Italian early tanks, German and American armour had either a consistent rivet size throughout the majority of the armour or cast pieces with none.
i have some kits coming and one I hope may have the magic piece, let's see.
 
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The "box" is from the 1/35 Tamiya Panzer Kampfwagen III Ausf. M/N. That part often gets knocked off the sprue, so I think that is why you don't see it on kit scans.
 
The "box" is from the 1/35 Tamiya Panzer Kampfwagen III Ausf. M/N. That part often gets knocked off the sprue, so I think that is why you don't see it on kit scans.
Thanks , have you an image , as I've looked at that kit and the box looks smooth in it,
a close up would be nice to confirm
 
The Tamiya 1/35 Panzer Ausf. M/N is the only kit that provides this donor piece. The instruction manual for the kit is here. They are Barrel Mounts and are part numbers A54 and C8, meaning two different barrel mounts in each kit, with one difference between them:

IMGP6294.jpg

If you're actually building the tank, you get to choose a long or a short top layer for the barrel mount. On the studio scale Y-Wing, this decorative aspect was displayed on the top, not underside of the subassembly. If you're building a Y-Wing in the super old-school "purist" style, there's bad news and good news. The bad news is that you need 8 of them! The good news is that you only need 4 kits to get these eight barrel mounts. I'm NOT an old-school purist (wish I could afford to be!), but I do have more than one kit.

Save yourself the hassle if you thought (like I did) that the Tamiya 1/35 Panzerkampfwagen Ausf.N (which is still in production, manual here) can also provide you with this piece, because while it does provide a barrel mount in the same shape, it is not in the same size, but a significant number of millimeters longer, and is itself a subassembly (rather than one piece) that takes four parts to make, and then a whole lot of modifying to get to the shape you want. As for whether or not the Dragon 1/35 Ausf. M/N model provides two barrel mounts that are identical to Tamiya's, I can't say because I don't have that kit, but if any of you have it, please do chime in or share a sprue scan with us. I'd also be keen to know if the Dragon model provides you with equivalents for Tamiya Parts Numbers A4, A33, and A34, which are also confirmed donor pieces from that Tamiya kit.

My current best-guess for the mystery piece on nacelle tie-down subassembly in question -- the part that goes on top of the Kettenkrad hook piece and connects to the end of the Bandai 1/24 Messerschmitt landing gear pieces -- is O-scale (or larger) train truss bridges, as those are the only structural elements I know of that have both a.) triple plating and b.) rivets on the upper edge. So far in my research I have not yet found it on any of the train bridges I've found so far. You will, of course, be the first to know if I do find it.
 
The Tamiya 1/35 Panzer Ausf. M/N is the only kit that provides this donor piece. The instruction manual for the kit is here. They are Barrel Mounts and are part numbers A54 and C8, meaning two different barrel mounts in each kit, with one difference between them:

View attachment 681562

If you're actually building the tank, you get to choose a long or a short top layer for the barrel mount. On the studio scale Y-Wing, this decorative aspect was displayed on the top, not underside of the subassembly. If you're building a Y-Wing in the super old-school "purist" style, there's bad news and good news. The bad news is that you need 8 of them! The good news is that you only need 4 kits to get these eight barrel mounts. I'm NOT an old-school purist (wish I could afford to be!), but I do have more than one kit.

Save yourself the hassle if you thought (like I did) that the Tamiya 1/35 Panzerkampfwagen Ausf.N (which is still in production, manual here) can also provide you with this piece, because while it does provide a barrel mount in the same shape, it is not in the same size, but a significant number of millimeters longer, and is itself a subassembly (rather than one piece) that takes four parts to make, and then a whole lot of modifying to get to the shape you want. As for whether or not the Dragon 1/35 Ausf. M/N model provides two barrel mounts that are identical to Tamiya's, I can't say because I don't have that kit, but if any of you have it, please do chime in or share a sprue scan with us. I'd also be keen to know if the Dragon model provides you with equivalents for Tamiya Parts Numbers A4, A33, and A34, which are also confirmed donor pieces from that Tamiya kit.

My current best-guess for the mystery piece on nacelle tie-down subassembly in question -- the part that goes on top of the Kettenkrad hook piece and connects to the end of the Bandai 1/24 Messerschmitt landing gear pieces -- is O-scale (or larger) train truss bridges, as those are the only structural elements I know of that have both a.) triple plating and b.) rivets on the upper edge. So far in my research I have not yet found it on any of the train bridges I've found so far. You will, of course, be the first to know if I do find it.
brilliant update and exactly what we're looking for , thanks for chiming in , plenty of discussion
those longer detailed pieces look correct except for the other markings , do we put them down to casting errors , if so Red jammer should be clean of them .
If it's not then maybe we could have the correct part but altered, did they drill a hole and add a spud or could it be the dragon kit supplies this exact part ?
 
SK - I always appreciate your in depth (could we say "scholarly"? :) ) posts! I would disagree with you though on one (minor) point... It's obvious that based on the large number of these assemblies that were used on both the Ys and the five foot falcon that they were cast parts. So a true "purist" would make one from original parts then mold and cast multiples.
 
Yep I agree as called out in original post, but the point I have poorly made is that have we really found the actual donor ?
Are the dimple and "nipple" seen on them casting residue , ILM modelling flourishes or an actual kit we have missed ?
Becausing of recasting of the units we have to exclude the falcon as it was built much later , however we must include any repeated detail as it can prove a point I suppose

In a lot of shots of y-wings we can not only see the "spuds " as I will call them but also on the rear of the mantlet there is a detail cut off ( I feel this is a casting sprue not cleaned off)
good comparison shot is uwe fishers shot showing the "spuds" in profile at the top of the image
View attachment 681666
Now let's look at the starboard nacelle damper assembly on red jammer, so one of the earliest y-wing assemblies, unpainted
which is a lot cleaner and matches pieces you posted, yet don't match the recasts
IMG_4781.JPG

IMG_4785.PNG
 

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Just noticed in the last image which is very clear , that the triangular piece at the front does not look as angular but the outer pieces look rounded in profile , may give us another clue
IMG_4785.PNG
 
SK - I always appreciate your in depth (could we say "scholarly"? :) ) posts! I would disagree with you though on one (minor) point... It's obvious that based on the large number of these assemblies that were used on both the Ys and the five foot falcon that they were cast parts. So a true "purist" would make one from original parts then mold and cast multiples.

I stand corrected. While I think you must be right, I'm also conscious of the fact that in 1975, an 8 million budget could buy a LOT of $3.99 Sealabs, and so buying 4 of them for 1 Y-Wing, or 4 Ausf. M/Ns for one Y-Wing, wouldn't seem entirely out of the realm of possibility. But I also think the late Julien was also fairly confident in his knowledge of what was original, what was cast, and how often they simply would cast a part and re-use it all over, and surely this particular subassembly was one of them. Was it so for the Red Jammer? That would be a question for Steve Neisen or Jamie Farthing, if they care to chime in. Or perhaps there are reference photos that prove/disprove it, I'm not sure, but would certainly be grateful to know.
 
IMG_2756.jpg

Gentlemen: A possible discovery -- there may be no "missing piece" on this nacelle tie-down nurnie subassembly. It may simply be in how you construct it, and in what parts/portions you shave off vs leave on the Bandai 1/24 struts. More anon!
 
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