Captain America: Civil War (Post-release)

With the Indiana Jones films we didn't ever believe that he was in any danger of dying. Yet it didn't make the films any less exciting, suspenseful or fun. Did anybody ever think James Bond could actually die in his movies?

Indy's dad died.
I don't follow Bond enough to know who died. Didn't M die?

A titular character dying is, agreed, rare. Even Batman at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, is uncertain.

I think this is one of the reasons Superman dying in BvS had almost zero impact... because people knew he would be coming back in the next movie.
 
Indy's dad died.
I don't follow Bond enough to know who died. Didn't M die?

A titular character dying is, agreed, rare. Even Batman at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, is uncertain.

I think this is one of the reasons Superman dying in BvS had almost zero impact... because people knew he would be coming back in the next movie.

And he was a whiny little baby, and still divided on whether he should help people or not. After being Superman for a year? He quit the "never ending battle" before it barely even begun. Not to mention with how much knowledge is out there, its not a surprise at all for Cavil to be working on Justice League. So I guess if you dont have access to the internet maybe you didnt know if he comes back or not :lol
 
I don't follow Bond enough to know who died. Didn't M die?
Well, that's only recently when the Bond franchise betrayed own rules and thought they could improve on the old formula. M dying is as stupid as going into Bond's backstory and tying villains to his past ... They forgot that the secret of the James Bond franchise is that it was never about James Bond. It was about the exotic locations, beautiful leading women, mastermind villains, eccentric henchmen and Bond gadgets/tech. James Bond was the singular constant in the entire franchise with everything else changing around him. When they made the series about Bond it turned into a second-rate Bourne knockoff.


I think this is one of the reasons Superman dying in BvS had almost zero impact... because people knew he would be coming back in the next movie.
Well we always know that Superman could never die, but it still could have had an impact if they just saved that story for when he's established. In BvS he's still figuring out his motives and the world has yet to accept him. So he dies and I feel like half the world would be breathing a sigh of relief after what preceded.
 
Still think War Machine/Cheadle should of died, to make the "civil war" aspect have some merit. Not to mention Cheadle as Rhodes is whack.

I don't mind cheadle as rhodes really - completely agree about Warmachines death though. Was one of only a few gripes really. Especially also having him also walking at the end! They could have at least had him fully out of action until a further movie.
 
And he was a whiny little baby, and still divided on whether he should help people or not. After being Superman for a year? He quit the "never ending battle" before it barely even begun. Not to mention with how much knowledge is out there, its not a surprise at all for Cavil to be working on Justice League. So I guess if you dont have access to the internet maybe you didnt know if he comes back or not :lol


The dirt ;)
 
I always fully was of the belief that Tony had already planned ahead, and allowed Rhodey to access the MkII. Now that I've gone back and looked (without watching the whole movie) I can't see any exact evidence for that. But I do believe at this point in the movie, Tony has almost fully accepted that he is going to die, and therefore he allows Rhodey to continue his legacy etc.

He DID give Rhodey access to the suit. In IM2, when Nick and Natasha were talking to Tony in the diner...

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I don't remember that conversation in the diner going that way at all...

Nick Fury: You've been very busy. You made your girl your CEO, you're giving away all your stuff. You let your friend fly away with your suit. Now, if I know better... Tony Stark: [interrupts] You don't know better. I didn't give it to him. He took it.
Nick Fury: Whoa, whoa, whoa. He took it? You're Iron Man and he just took it? The little brother walked in there, kicked your ass and took your suit? Is that possible?
Natasha Romanoff: Well, according to Mr. Stark's database security guidelines, there are redundancies to prevent unauthorized usage.

At the end Rhodey says something to the effect of "I'm going to hang on to the suit."
Stark says something like "It's not alright"
Rhodey responds something like "I wasn't asking" and flies away.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how anyone that isn't the exact height and build as Tony can even "wear" the suit. It a person's limbs are shorter or longer it would be no different than if they were trying to fit into his custom tailored Armani suit.
 
He said he didn't, and he did not hand it to him, but I'm fairly certain than that's Fury's point : deep down, he let Rhodes take the suit, given how much of a mess he was. Size wise that never made real sense indeed, although the suit is much bigger than Tony, but the inside must have been tailored to his own build !
 
Odd this popped up,I just watched the film.......

It's a good movie,takes it in an interesting direction and kinda sets up for the big baddie after civil war that ties everybody back together but.

Tony is now Batman/Bruce Wayne???? "My parents are DEAD!!! AAAARGH!!!!!!" um....yea okay Tony.....why don't ya just go sit in a corner and we'll get you a cookie,you're acting strange.
 
Tony is now Batman/Bruce Wayne???? "My parents are DEAD!!! AAAARGH!!!!!!" um....yea okay Tony.....why don't ya just go sit in a corner and we'll get you a cookie,you're acting strange.
The difference is that Tony hasn't been brooding and pontificating about it for 30 years. The tragedy isn't just that his parents were murdered. It's that Barnes killed them and Rogers knew all along. It's about betrayal. I thought RDJ's performance was phenomenal.
 
The difference is that Tony hasn't been brooding and pontificating about it for 30 years. The tragedy isn't just that his parents were murdered. It's that Barnes killed them and Rogers knew all along. It's about betrayal. I thought RDJ's performance was phenomenal.

Maybe I'm just an unemotional sot but.....I'd seriously realize Barnes was more-or-less programmed to be Winter Solider before I'd go off the deep end like that but overall I did like him in this,it's what Tony was in the comics somewhat a good guy basically but has his problems and in this case is trying to keep the ship level and wound up capsizing it.
 
Maybe I'm just an unemotional sot but.....I'd seriously realize Barnes was more-or-less programmed to be Winter Solider before I'd go off the deep end like that but overall I did like him in this,it's what Tony was in the comics somewhat a good guy basically but has his problems and in this case is trying to keep the ship level and wound up capsizing it.
I think the Russos went to great length to make it plausible by putting Tony in an emotionally fragile place where he would be less than rational.

Right from the start Tony and Pepper are not together. In the MIT lecture you can see that he's actually still shaken by it. Let's remember her role from IM was as an ally for his conscience, albeit a conflicted one. Without Pepper, Tony only has Steve and the Avengers.

So the Avengers is more than just a team for Tony, it's a surrogate family which is even more vital without Pepper in his life. With the rift over the Sokovia Accords Tony's appeal to Steve is about keeping the Avengers together so he doesn't lose his family. In the airport scene when Tony says, "I'm ... I'm trying to keep you from tearing the Avengers apart " he's on the verge of tears because he's really emotionally isolated (with the exception of Rhodey). When Rhodey goes down Tony is suddenly without anybody. The Vision is still emotionally primitive while Natasha essentially abandons Tony she tells him he should watch his back. Tony is alone.

Now let's talk about Tony's relationship with Steve. It's almost like a sibling rivalry since their common link is his father. Tony never really got closure with his dad. In Iron Man, when Tony says, "I never got to say 'good bye' to my father" and repeatedly speculates about what his father would have done you really get the sense of him desperate to fit into his father's shoes - a boy still in want of approval. At the same time Tony grew up hearing his father constantly lauding the memory of Steve Rogers and, in hearing his dad talk about Steve, Tony even says, "God, I hated you". At least in Tony's mind Steve was the "golden child" and he was obviously the "problem child."

Even with Steve representing a moral high ground Tony goes to great length, in different ways to convince Steve to sign the Accords. We already saw that he fears the dissolution of the Avengers. In the scene where he brings out the fountain pens he even reveals to Steve that he hopes the Accords will help bring Pepper and him together again. Despite all this Steve just stands his ground unsympathetically. While Tony is being uncharacteristically humble, Steve is kinda being a dick.

Even as Tony pleads to preserve the Avengers, Steve seems more committed to protecting Bucky. I sense some jealously in Steve's dedication to Bucky over Tony. ("He's my friend." "So was I.")

Seeing the video of the murder of his parents - his father with whom he was never able to express affection and his mother who coddled him (let's face it, Tony is a "mamma's boy") by the singular man who is being protected by Steve causes him to lose control. In part he's also taking out Bucky in retaliation against Steve who seems not to regard Tony's situation at all, who was worshiped by his dad and who is protecting the murderer of both his parents.

Throughout the movie Tony is struggling to remain cordial and find a way to resolve this with their friendship intact. The video was the exact thing that could break him.
 
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What did Zemo mean toward the end when he tells Cap "...there's a little green in the blue of your eyes."?

Just that he's not perfect? Was is a gamma reference? Or just a weird observation?
 
What did Zemo mean toward the end when he tells Cap "...there's a little green in the blue of your eyes."?

Just that he's not perfect? Was is a gamma reference? Or just a weird observation?
It's been a while, but if I recall correctly it means that Cap's not perfect - the green would be considered a flaw.
 
Zemo's next line is "it's nice to find a flaw."

Yes, jealousy/envy could be considered a flaw - but, I'm still convinced it's more about his eyes not being a perfect blue. The MCU Zemo may not be German like his comic book counterpart - but, it's not unrealistic to think that he carried over some of the Nazi ideology from the four colored bad guy (even if he denounced Hydra). Daniel Bruhl is even German - complete with accent.
 
Watched it yesterday evening. I am late to the game (which happens a lot these days with movies) and I must say and hate to say that I was pretty bored. After the movie had ended I even thought that I probably can´t enjoy Superhero movies anymore or movies in general. It felt like the storytelling was so odd, and, again like what I felt with TLJ, more like a part of a tv series than a standalone movie. Granted, Civil War cannot stand on its own legs because of the huge amount of backstory that you need to understand and enjoy that movie. The action scenes IMO (!) felt a little shoehorned in and stretched, just to break up the IMO (!) continuous exposition that we get. Zemo (I must admit that I do not like Daniel Brühl) was IMO wasted and highly construed with an IMO(!) weak because predictable and overused motivation, or I did not understand it fully.

I do look forward to seeing Black Panther and the other MCU movies, but it took Ant-Man to rekindle my interest in all of that. I haven´t seen Spiderman yet, plan to do so, looks to be an enjoyable movie. Tony Stark is getting on my nerves, lately, and that probably is a huge part of why I feel kinda put off by the MCU atm. I did not really like GotG2 as much as 1, too, because of too many, too much of everything.
 
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