Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Post-release)
- Thread starter Vivek
- Start date
Solo4114, my spin on the opening crawl is it needs a complete rework. Some elements are okay, but in the wrong order. The return of the terse first sentence is good, but it's supposed to establish, in the broadest scope possible, what's changed since the end of the previous episode. Then get more specific, until it trails off where the opening shot picks up. Also, the only words in all caps in the original opening crawl were DEATH STAR. In Empire? None. It's really only meant to be used for words that would be italicized, but there's no alternate typeface. Things like ship (or space station) names. Later on, it started to be treated like in a script, where the first time a person or group appears in the script, it's all caps so when skimming you can spot it easily. Having REPUBLIC and RESISTANCE and FIRST ORDER all caps like that is... clunky. To put it nicely. No, 99.9% of moviegoers don't notice something like that. Consciously. This plays into the responsibility of the filmmaker to manage all the subliminal cues, too.
Here's my first pass:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
A generation has passed. Following
the death of the Emperor, the Rebel
Alliance declared a New Republic,
even though it was some time
before the Empire finally had to
surrender.
With real peace now possible, Luke
Skywalker began training a new
order of Jedi Knights. However, in a
mysterious tragedy, the academy
was destroyed, and Luke disappeared.
Now a new group has risen from the
ashes of the Empire, determined to
overthrow the Republic, and find and
destroy the last Jedi. Princess Leia
has organized an underground
resistance to oppose them and find
Skywalker first….
I know the last paragraph is a little too long. I've had this simmering in the back of my head since first seeing it, and I'll get it pared down eventually. Doing the opening crawl has been one of the fun challenges for all of my Star Wars rewrites (the six Obi-Wan prequel films, and the four films that got squooshed together into the Return of the Jedi that we got), so I've had a bit of practice with the length and cadence. This one isn't there yet, but I'm happier with what I just put up there than what was in the film. A little bit of Prequel-itis -- too much of what we don't need to know, and not enough of what we do. *heh*
I think The Powers That Be were too close to the film to see what needed to be in the crawl. But it still works better than the crawls for ROTJ or TPM.
--Jonah
Here's my first pass:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
A generation has passed. Following
the death of the Emperor, the Rebel
Alliance declared a New Republic,
even though it was some time
before the Empire finally had to
surrender.
With real peace now possible, Luke
Skywalker began training a new
order of Jedi Knights. However, in a
mysterious tragedy, the academy
was destroyed, and Luke disappeared.
Now a new group has risen from the
ashes of the Empire, determined to
overthrow the Republic, and find and
destroy the last Jedi. Princess Leia
has organized an underground
resistance to oppose them and find
Skywalker first….
I know the last paragraph is a little too long. I've had this simmering in the back of my head since first seeing it, and I'll get it pared down eventually. Doing the opening crawl has been one of the fun challenges for all of my Star Wars rewrites (the six Obi-Wan prequel films, and the four films that got squooshed together into the Return of the Jedi that we got), so I've had a bit of practice with the length and cadence. This one isn't there yet, but I'm happier with what I just put up there than what was in the film. A little bit of Prequel-itis -- too much of what we don't need to know, and not enough of what we do. *heh*
I think The Powers That Be were too close to the film to see what needed to be in the crawl. But it still works better than the crawls for ROTJ or TPM.
--Jonah
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Solo4114
Master Member
@Solo4114, my spin on the opening crawl is it needs a complete rework. Some elements are okay, but in the wrong order. The return of the terse first sentence is good, but it's supposed to establish, in the broadest scope possible, what's changed since the end of the previous episode. Then get more specific, until it trails off where the opening shot picks up. Also, the only words in all caps in the original opening crawl were DEATH STAR. In Empire? None. It's really only meant to be used for words that would be italicized, but there's no alternate typeface. Things like ship (or space station) names. Later on, it started to be treated like in a script, where the first time a person or group appears in the script, it's all caps so when skimming you can spot it easily. Having REPUBLIC and RESISTANCE and FIRST ORDER all caps like that is... clunky. To put it nicely. No, 99.9% of moviegoers don't notice something like that. Consciously. This plays into the responsibility of the filmmaker to manage all the subliminal cues, too.
Here's my first pass:
Episode VII
THE FORCE AWAKENS
A generation has passed. Following
the death of the Emperor, the Rebel
Alliance declared a New Republic,
even though it was some time
before the Empire finally had to
surrender.
With real peace now possible, Luke
Skywalker began training a new
order of Jedi Knights. However, in a
mysterious tragedy, the academy
was destroyed, and Luke disappeared.
Now a new group has risen from the
ashes of the Empire, determined to
overthrow the Republic, and find and
destroy the last Jedi. Princess Leia
has organized an underground
resistance to oppose them and find
Skywalker first….
I know the last paragraph is a little too long. I've had this simmering in the back of my head since first seeing it, and I'll get it pared down eventually. Doing the opening crawl has been one of the fun challenges for all of my Star Wars rewrites (the six Obi-Wan prequel films, and the four films that got squooshed together into the Return of the Jedi that we got), so I've had a bit of practice with the length and cadence. This one isn't there yet, but I'm happier with what I just put up there than what was in the film. A little bit of Prequel-itis -- too much of what we don't need to know, and not enough of what we do. *heh*
I think The Powers That Be were too close to the film to see what needed to be in the crawl. But it still works better than the crawls for ROTJ or TPM.
--Jonah
I like yours, but I think it's focused more as a catch-up for the audience of what happened over the last 30 years...and I don't think that's ultimately the point of the crawl.
I think of it this way. All Star Wars films open in media res. Looking back at all of them, the only thing that the crawls have ever done is contextualize the opening itself, rather than provide context for the rest of the story. The job of the film is to take the opening and place it within the context of the overarching tale.
Particularly in TFA, as with ANH, I think a lot of that happens through the journeys of the characters -- especially Rey and Luke. Both start in ordinary circumstances, just kind of eking out an existence. Over the course of the films, both have their understanding of the galaxy expand dramatically -- as does the audience's understanding of what's going on.
So, I don't really need to know why there aren't any Jedi. That's revealed in the course of the film (partly). Some kind of accident or betrayal led to the downfall of the order in its infancy. Or something. The Knights of Ren had something to do with it. All that is shown/told in the course of the film, so I'm cool with the gradual reveal. Rey doesn't know any of the story either, so our journey mirrors hers.
What the film doesn't show is any of the political stuff. The First Order exists. Ok... It rose from the ashes of the empire. Ok...how? Wasn't the Empire destroyed? Wasn't the Empire defeated to restore the Republic? Didn't the good guys win the last round?
And the film never explains that. It never tells you how the First Order rose or, more importantly to me, why the Republic isn't the entity fighting them, and some other group called "The Resistance" is. If the First Order is taking over worlds and killing people, why is the Republic not sending it's military to fight back? What is the Resistance resisting and why are they not just...you know...the Republic?
The background material and the stuff from the novelization apparently provide this info. The Republic is paralyzed with fear after having largely demilitarized, and is hoping to be left alone. The Senate can't get its act together to gear up for war. The Resistance is made up of people who saw the threat and acted outside of the Senate, although it's supported by some within the Senate.
To me, that's the biggest question mark in the film, and the film does squat to address it. The rest of the "But what happened in between ROTJ and TFA?" stuff is either addressed or they telegraph that they're going to address it. But that part, the whole "Wait, so there's a Republic that isn't fighting, and a Resistance that is? Who are the Resistance and why isn't the Republic doing the fighting?" thing, that's a glaring hole which could either have been corrected with a few additional scenes, or which could have been corrected with a line or two in the opening crawl.
And the TFA Troll King award goes to:
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/this-star-wars-spoiler-is-so-audacious-you-cant-be-mad-1752242380
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/this-star-wars-spoiler-is-so-audacious-you-cant-be-mad-1752242380
Riceball
Master Member
But the film does deal with all of that, it just doesn't go into great detail which is what I think that some people have a problem with. Everything mentioned above is dealt with in the movie with a few lines of dialogue, dialogue that some people apparently missed and so came away from the film confused as to what's going on. But it's all there, perhaps not to the degree that some would like but it's there none the less, while we don't get all of the details we do get the overall big picture of the state of the galaxy as it stands at the beginning of the movie. While the opening crawl could go into a little more detail I don't think that it needs that much revision, maybe another sentence or two on the state of the galaxy since the end of Jedi but even that's not entirely necessary since we do get that later on in the movie.
Solo4114
Master Member
If they mentioned the relationship between the Resistance and the Republic, then I totally missed it. And it's not like I wasn't paying attention, ya know?
In my revised version, all I added was a line on the Republic not stepping up, and then clarified who the Resistance were in relation. The thing is, when it comes to the crawl, "one line" is like an entire paragraph. Seriously, the first "paragraph" is a single, relatively short sentence. In fact, in crawl-mode, the immediately preceding sentence would be written as follows:
Seriously, the first
"paragraph is a single,
relatively short sentence.
You get between 3 and 5 words per line, basically. I think putting it right up front, though, would help make the Resistance seem maybe a little less like "Soooo....they're nuRebels?" because it'd clarify that they're more like an off-shoot from the Senate, that chose to act when the Senate wouldn't.
I mean, really, you don't even need to get into the whole "disarmed because of treaty and scared to fight" thing. You could just say:
Paralyzed by indecision,
the REPUBLIC cannot
mobilize to fight the Order.
With the support of
sympathetic forces,
General Leia Organa
leads a brave RESISTANCE.
She is desperate to find her
brother Luke and gain his
help in restoring peace
and justice to the galaxy.
That almost completely retains what was originally written, but provides the tiniest bit of context as to who the Resistance is in relation to the Republic.
I just really did not get what the deal was between Republic/Resistance, and I didn't think the film really did anything to provide info on that. If it did, they must have been throwaway lines or scenes that went by so quickly as to be barely noticeable.
Oh, I'd have to stab a bitch on that one...
Sourdoh
Sr Member
astroboy said:
I'm a big defender of cgi but one thing I will say is that explosions, bullet shots and fire should always be done practically.
Filmmakers have found that it is cheaper and safer to do a lot of the on-set effects as CGI. On set the gunshots are often faked and CGI'd later in situations where safety is a concern. And waiting for a SFX crew to rig a huge (and potentially dangerous) explosion on location is time consuming in many cases and doing it CGI later is the answer. Having extras on set with little experience with weapons can be a huge problem, so having them just do "reactions" to shots and CG-ing it later takes care of that concern, and can save on cases and cases of blank ammunition in large groups of firing actors. and delays caused by misfiring weapons.
TFA used as much practical as was "practical" but most of the ST guns firing were CGI, so all the talk of the film going back to practical effects consisted of building more full sets and less green screen, and props (The Falcon being the primary example) and the X-Wings. Most of this was the result of the criticism of the PTs using too much CGI. When producers find out they can save money by doing CGI, they will do it, so any suggestion that CGI is "fakey" looking is trumped by the budgetary considerations.
Much of the griping about CGI is done by the Luddites who think that the old methods of effects are the best and the new stuff (whatever it is) is just not as good. The truth is that effects technicians have always embraced new technology when the budget would allow it. The important thing is to use a particular technique to achieve what is called for in the script with the proper budgetary expenditure and adherence to safety.
I'm a big defender of cgi but one thing I will say is that explosions, bullet shots and fire should always be done practically.
Filmmakers have found that it is cheaper and safer to do a lot of the on-set effects as CGI. On set the gunshots are often faked and CGI'd later in situations where safety is a concern. And waiting for a SFX crew to rig a huge (and potentially dangerous) explosion on location is time consuming in many cases and doing it CGI later is the answer. Having extras on set with little experience with weapons can be a huge problem, so having them just do "reactions" to shots and CG-ing it later takes care of that concern, and can save on cases and cases of blank ammunition in large groups of firing actors. and delays caused by misfiring weapons.
TFA used as much practical as was "practical" but most of the ST guns firing were CGI, so all the talk of the film going back to practical effects consisted of building more full sets and less green screen, and props (The Falcon being the primary example) and the X-Wings. Most of this was the result of the criticism of the PTs using too much CGI. When producers find out they can save money by doing CGI, they will do it, so any suggestion that CGI is "fakey" looking is trumped by the budgetary considerations.
Much of the griping about CGI is done by the Luddites who think that the old methods of effects are the best and the new stuff (whatever it is) is just not as good. The truth is that effects technicians have always embraced new technology when the budget would allow it. The important thing is to use a particular technique to achieve what is called for in the script with the proper budgetary expenditure and adherence to safety.
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astroboy
Master Member
I totally understand why a studio would opt for digital explosions. But there is something about the mayhem on set with practical danger that simply adds to the film. The dark knight was a great example of that
Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
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Solo4114
Master Member
Didn't the Project Greenlight film "The Battle of Shaker Heights" feature a sequence where an extra points a (blank) loaded firearm directly at the camera instead of their proper mark or something? I can't remember if that happend off-screen or in the film. I only saw a clip of it.
I think having an actual set with actual props is really huge, though. You don't really need anything other than maybe some mark for where a gunshot is gonna go off, and, like, cap guns to make the timing work, but just having the actual sets there has got to help an actor's performance go beyond the playground version of "Let's pretend."
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Axlotl
Master Member
Unfortunately, so was "The Twilight Zone".
I like giant fiery explosions as much as the next guy, but if it's going to put people's lives in danger, then by all means, use CGI.
robn1
Master Member
I think Maz Kanata, Maz down one hill Kanata get up the next.
matty matt
Sr Member
Anyone else actually like the crawl? I thought it was fine.
"troll" being millennial speak for "I'm a giant *********"
Solo4114
Master Member
To be clear, I thought the crawl was fine for what it was. If the film had dealt with the political stuff a bit more directly, I probably would've never thought about the crawl. But whatever was there to explain why the Republic wasn't fighting but the Resistance was, I must've missed it, and I think I'd have been less likely to do so if it had been in the crawl. I was just using it as an example of "If you don't want to do a whole scene, you can get by with, like, a few lines in the crawl."
Sourdoh
Sr Member
Whether there is really a staircase, rather than just a set of green screen steps on the set isn't the problem for actor "motivation" (although some actors would disagree). It is when actors are asked to do dialog scenes with styrofoam balls on sticks that are supposed to be the other actor, when the problem occurs. Some actors have the facility to do this, and others don't. Harryhausen movies are a good example of this, as many actors have complained about having to react to Ray holding a long stick and telling them it is 30 foot tall Dragon! The problem is exactly the same for the actor, the after-filming part of it is just different. Also, the styrofoam ball on a stick is hugely less expensive than trying to build the creature in full size.
TFA bombs in China. Will not catch Avatar.
http://news.yahoo.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-unlikely-to-become-210520992.html
Bad word of mouth is hurting it here in the states, too.
The Wook
ps~on an unrelated note, that guy with the Han Dies spoiler on his car oughta be shot!
http://news.yahoo.com/star-wars-the-force-awakens-unlikely-to-become-210520992.html
Bad word of mouth is hurting it here in the states, too.
The Wook
ps~on an unrelated note, that guy with the Han Dies spoiler on his car oughta be shot!
Obviously.
Jedi-72
Sr Member
Hurting it? It's the highest grossing movie in US history AND in the shortest period of time. 800 million in three weeks. Also, the third highest grossing in world history. It's also grossed more domestically than any two of the prequels combined.Yeah....bad word of mouth is killing it....
And, how long were BOTH Avatar and Titanic in theaters?
And, how long were BOTH Avatar and Titanic in theaters?
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