Deep Space 9

I guess I just don't get Trek. I could never get into the original series. When it comes to the movies with that cast, I only like The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country. I like The Next Generation, but I could reduce it down to about 10 or 12 really great episodes. I have found Voyager and Enterprise unwatchable.

Then there is DS9, one that Trek fans seem to dislike.

I love this show!

The characters are so well written. The dynamic betweek Quark and Odo is enough alone, but toss in Garak, Sisko, and the others, as well as the constant influx of people visiting DS9 and you have set the scene for some serious dramatic storytelling.

As I said, maybe I don't "get" Trek the way the die-hards do, probably why I like JJ's Trek. Plus, I'm a Star Wars fan at heart, and so is JJ. I'd love it if one of the SW spinoff projects was along the lines of DS9.

So what is it about "real Trek" that I'm not appreciating?

The word "Trek."

"a long arduous journey"


Not much "journeying" going on with a station that stays put.


Kevin

I like most of Trek, but DS9 is my favorite, and honestly I think it's head and shoulders above the rest. Garak is one of the most compelling characters on any TV series, not just Trek.

SSgt Burton said:

The word "Trek."

"a long arduous journey"


Not much "journeying" going on with a station that stays put.


Kevin

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True, but with the wormhole, DS9 certainly isn't lacking variety. I think there must be something more to it than just a trek that appeals to fans that I'm somehow missing.
Maybe because the other Treks are more rigid and militaristic? Yes I know the Enterprise is a science vessel, but it does seem like the military to me. Maybe that is what appeals to some? DS9 seems like a more relaxed environment for the most, with more drama and less action.

A common complaint about DS9 was that it was "too dark" and didn't take Gene's vision of a utopian future to heart. DS9 was a world with subterfuge, intrigue, and clandestine missions.

I love DS9 so much. I own all of it on dvd and will occasionally binge on it.

What's also awesome is that if you're a fan of the BSG reboot, you can see the seeds of some of that being planted in Ron Moore's mind as he worked on DS9.

DS9 was great. I love watching it.

I think that DS9 lets us see that, even in the Trek future, there are still shades of grey, and shadows where the moral light of Starfleet's finest doesn't always shine. To me, this adds depth and realism to Gene's vision. If all we ever saw was humanity's paragons, then we might find it... unrealistic? Possibly unattainable? I find the Trek universe richer and more interesting with DS9 in it.

jlee562 said:

A common complaint about DS9 was that it was "too dark" and didn't take Gene's vision of a utopian future to heart. DS9 was a world with subterfuge, intrigue, and clandestine missions.

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I like all of those things.

I liked DS9 because it was so different from everything else at the time when it came to trek.

DS-9 took Trek to a whole different level.

Religion, StarFleet under seige and fighting for it's life against the founders was certainly not what The Great Bird of the Galaxy had in mind for his franchise, but that is what made it SO GOOD!!

It beats Voyager, but I far prefer TNG and TOS to DS9.

SSgt Burton said:

The word "Trek."

"a long arduous journey"


Not much "journeying" going on with a station that stays put.


Kevin

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That all depends Mr. Burton on what the Journey really is. A journey can be one of discovery, and self-discovery. When you see these characters from episode one and see what they're like by the last episode, there is no doubt that everyone has been through a very trying and hard journey that has changed them, even if they're still on the same station. Look at the character Nog for example. He literally started out as a petty thief in the first episode who Sisko used as a bargaining chip to get Quark to help him out. At the end of the series, he's a Lieutenant manning a key station on the second Defiant's bridge in the last battle of the Dominion War. And there is so much more to his development than simply rising through the ranks and being a good officer. He loses his leg during a brutal, costly battle, suffers survivors guilt and almost winds up broken and lost. But with the help of his friends, he grows and he changes into a character we can respect. No reset button, no hypospray "cure all" chemical. Just real hardships that are dealt with in real ways.

Did I mention that Nog is just a Ferengi who doesn't even get a credit in the show's opening title? Compare him to Harry Kim, a MAIN CHARACTER from Star Trek Voyager who starts the show as an Ensign.... and ended the show as an Ensign. Yes. This character who has gone from one corner of the galaxy to another, literally sacrificed his life more than once to save Voyager, is now going to be taking orders from a Ferengi kid. Granted this has more to do with the fact that the producers hated Garret Wong because he spoke out about how the producers of the show just weren't "getting it" when it came to Voyager. Not only is he the most expendable character on the show, he's also the ONLY ACTOR who was denied a chance to direct an episode on the show. The only reason the producers kept him was because he ranked a pretty high score on some "hot male" list.

BTW, if CBS is going to continue offering previews of their next season sets on their TNG BluRays, you might want to check out Season 5 of TNG coming out on BluRay. If it carries a preview for Season 6, us DS9 fans will be in for a special High Definition treat.

With Star Trek, because of it's long presence in pop culture and vast amount of content, people usually feel the most resonance with the Trek they saw first and helped to inform their fandom. For me that was '70's reruns of TOS, so from the standpoint of fond nostalgia and love, it's TOS even though TNG is a stronger series by most metrics. I love DS9, though, I certainly appreciate it's unique look at the Trek Universe. I also love new JJ Trek and wasn't sure if I would based on my fondness for TOS.

I agree with Jeyl 100%, trek doesn't necessarily need to be interpreted by its literal meaning and I'd argue that Star Trek has never really been about the physical journey of traveling from one part of the galaxy to another but has much more to do with what Jeyl was talking about and personal journeys the characters made. Sure, space travel and exploration has always been a part of Trek but at the end of the day it's more about exploration of the human condition, and the exploration of character growth than simply exploring strange new worlds. Voyager is a perfect example of this, every week they explored different parts of the Delta quadrant yet every part of it always looked the same as the Alpha quadrant, everything was remarkably compatible with Federation technology and there was little to no character growth outside of 7of9 and the Doctor. At the end of 7 seasons Janeway was the same by the book, non-risk taking captain that she started the show was, Tuvok was the same old curmudgeon of a Vulcan, and Harry Kim remained an Ensign, so while their physical journey accounted for thousands of light years their characters went nowhere.

I just recently finished another re-watch of all of DS9 and now I am up to Season 3 of Voyager again and it really isn't nearly as good.

Riceball said:

I agree with Jeyl 100%, trek doesn't necessarily need to be interpreted by its literal meaning and I'd argue that Star Trek has never really been about the physical journey of traveling from one part of the galaxy to another but has much more to do with what Jeyl was talking about and personal journeys the characters made. Sure, space travel and exploration has always been a part of Trek but at the end of the day it's more about exploration of the human condition, and the exploration of character growth than simply exploring strange new worlds. Voyager is a perfect example of this, every week they explored different parts of the Delta quadrant yet every part of it always looked the same as the Alpha quadrant, everything was remarkably compatible with Federation technology and there was little to no character growth outside of 7of9 and the Doctor. At the end of 7 seasons Janeway was the same by the book, non-risk taking captain that she started the show was, Tuvok was the same old curmudgeon of a Vulcan, and Harry Kim remained an Ensign, so while their physical journey accounted for thousands of light years their characters went nowhere.

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Voyager also suffered from a lack of consequences regarding everything. Even the Enterprise D, a huge self-sustaining ship that was the flag ship of the Federation even at the time of Voyager's launch needed to dock at a star base or dry dock for routine maintenance, restock on supplies and crew re-assignments. Voyager is a much smaller ship literally out in the middle of nowhere with no help in sight, yet she never suffers one permanent scratch on her hull throughout all the seven seasons. A lot of things that the first few episodes tried to establish in order to give the impression that the crew were struggling would be forgotten before the first season's end.

Speaking as a Trekkie, when I say that Deep Space Nine is my favorite of the Star Trek series, that doesn't mean I think all Star Trek shows should be like it on a fundamental level. I still love the literal "journey into the unknown" and seeking out new life and new civilizations. I honestly wouldn't want Deep Space Nine if it meant not including the previous series and movies that came before it (though I did enjoy Babylon 5). What Deep Space Nine did that I've always asked was answer the question regarding what happens "after" you encounter "new life and new civilizations". It shouldn't be as simple as saying "Hi! We've solved your problem and now we're friends! We'll see you whenever!". The Bajoran conflict with the Cardassians and how the Federation fits into all of it is an example of one of those consequences we should be prepared for. We've gotten to know them, but soon their problems will start becoming our problems, and vice versa. How can our problems have anything to do with them you might ask? Remember when Sisko got possessed and pleaded with the Bajoran people not to join the Federation on the day of the signing? Seeing that episode for the first time felt like it was a cop out "reset switch" so the show's writers didn't have to change any status quo, but as the series went on, it all made perfect sense. If the Bajoran's had joined the Federation, they would have been labeled as an enemy to the Dominion. When they signed the non-aggression pact, they were off limits to both sides, hence the non-assault on Bajor, and Gul'Dukat's delayed plan for conquest. A perfect example of "unforeseen consequences".

Also, Benjamin Sisko was Phil Coulson long before Phil even existed. We have a stern, dedicated and loyal officer of the Federation who commands an entire force to ensure that his people are protected, but when it comes to his personal heroes, even he will get all giddy about the thought of meeting them in person. I mean, he literally risked disrupting the time line just to get Captain Kirk's autograph and tell him how awesome he is. And how can you look at an episode like "Trials and Tribble-ations" and not conclude that the folks running the show aren't passionate fans of Star Trek?

Deep Space 9 gave us the Defiant, Section 31, and this scene:


Therefore, Deep Space 9 is superior.

Oh man, In the Pale Moonlight is a great episode.

Jeyl said:

Also, Benjamin Sisko was Phil Coulson long before Phil even existed. We have a stern, dedicated and loyal officer of the Federation who commands an entire force to ensure that his people are protected, but when it comes to his personal heroes, even he will get all giddy about the thought of meeting them in person. I mean, he literally risked disrupting the time line just to get Captain Kirk's autograph and tell him how awesome he is. And how can you look at an episode like "Trials and Tribble-ations" and not conclude that the folks running the show aren't passionate fans of Star Trek?

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As I've said elsewhere:

Benjamin Sisko is what you get when you combine the DNA of James T. Kirk and Shaft.

The only reason why they named the ship "Defiant" was because "Benjamin Sisko's Motha-******* Pimp Hand" was too big to put on the hull.