Dr. Who - Key to Time - Clear resin cast

So, just a quick update...

I still haven't picked up the materials to do the casting. I'm pretty sure I'm still going to be casting this in resin, but in the last while I've been thinking more and more about a better approach to the Key to Time...

I've started making some inquiries into having the Key to Time professionally produced out of crystal or Lucite. (Lucite is what they use for doing those glass-like awards, and is similar to crystal but lighter and more durable.)

I've got Hydin getting a quote from his source. And I've found a place here in Toronto that looks like they'd be able create all six segments out of Lucite. (And as a bonus, the two people I've spoken to are big Dr. Who fans, so they're eager to see this happen!)

There's one huge catch though -- It's expensive. Like, really expensive. But I'm going to get some official quotes before I dismiss the idea entirely. Just doing a google image search on Lucite and imagining a Key to Time made out of it has me salivating....

Cool. I'd love to hear how those options turn out. My guy has done one piece properly in resin, and it's good but not 100% perfect yet. We're waiting for him to really get them all done and be ready to do a run before releasing photos.

Hey, that's good news! I can't wait to see how it turns out!

I'm definitely still interested in getting the Key to Time done in resin, whether by me or by you.

In fact, what would be really ideal is having both. I can imagine having the expensive crystal pieces on display in a case. Then the resin pieces can be actually handled and played with. So if a friend comes over and comments on the Key to Time, you can hand them the resin pieces and see if they can put it together!

Time for another update. It's kind of a "good news/bad news" post...

First the bad news: So the more I think about it, the more I think there's no point in me casting my model in resin, at least not at this point in time. Kestre seems pretty close to having all six segments ready to go, and they're being done with a lot more experience than I have, so there just doesn't seem any point in me doing it too, especially since I have neither the right equipment nor experience. The motivation I had when I first started this project was fueled by the fact that no one had ever successfully re-created the Key to Time, but now that I know someone else is doing it, I'll be just as happy to just get in on their run. It'd be a lot less work too! So to everyone following this thread and waiting to see the final result, I apologize that it may never happen.

Now the good news: Over the last few weeks I've switched gears and have been working with a local company to potentially have the Key to Time done in Lucite. Individual pieces would be very expensive (several hundred dollars each) but if we can get at least 10 people in the price for the complete set of six segments would drop to under a thousand. I know that's still well out of range of most people's budget, but I'm hoping there might be at least *some* people on this planet besides myself who'd be willing to get in on it.

And now the best part: I'll be meeting with them later this week, and if all goes well I'm going to cough up the cash to have them produce one of the segments as a prototype. This will give us a good idea of what the final Key to Time would look like.

Of course all this is still very preliminary, nothing decided for sure. But I'll keep you all up to date with what's happening, and post any progress reports I can.

Cheers,

Well you may decide to do it for the experience of learning molding and casting techniques. Though this is a tough type of piece to try (3 dimensional, clear, moderate size).

My update is that my guy is up to testing 3 of the pieces in his new curing method. I guess the cure time is several days long so it's quite a turnaround time for now.

Kestre said:

Well you may decide to do it for the experience of learning molding and casting techniques. Though this is a tough type of piece to try (3 dimensional, clear, moderate size).

My update is that my guy is up to testing 3 of the pieces in his new curing method. I guess the cure time is several days long so it's quite a turnaround time for now.

Click to expand...

3 days? What is he casting with?

Reading closer it looks like he was (not sure if he's still using this exact method) doing 3 layers of 24 hr cure with epoxycast. Interesting because I've read that the originals were also created in layers.

Kestre said:

Reading closer it looks like he was (not sure if he's still using this exact method) doing 3 layers of 24 hr cure with epoxycast. Interesting because I've read that the originals were also created in layers.

Click to expand...

Haven't heard of doing that before. That's a long time for a casting.

Kestre said:

Well you may decide to do it for the experience of learning molding and casting techniques.

Click to expand...

Oh trust me, I hear you on this! I was actually really looking forward to doing it -- and in fact I still might end up doing it! Part of the problem is the cost. I still have to get the silicone rubber, the Smooth-On Crystal Clear (enough for several attempts, since I'm sure to botch the first couple of tries), and various other supplies. And on top of that, I know I'm going to have subpar results due to a lack of vacuum chamber and pressure pot. So I'd rather save up for the Lucite version and/or your version.

Having said that... If the Lucite doesn't work out for whatever reason, I will likely go ahead with casting my model. Because you're right -- After putting this much effort into it, I want to see the finished result!!

I hope you get a glass or hard plastic version made. Maybe contact a manufacture in China. The companies that make award trophies can pretty much make any shape and they would be a fraction of the cost for a one off than getting it done locally. If they ask what it is, say it is a prototype and you want to product 100s if it works and they will do what they do best.

Your master looks sensational and I was keen to see how you might cast this. Not to rain on your parade, I cast prisms out of resin a few years ago and did not have 100% success even when I learned how to pour without bubbles.

The key reason for my failures was that the casting resin was exothermic and because the prism tapered, it had different rates in which it set and cooled. The results were often cracking at the thin end. I experimented with heat lamps and various other techniques. In the end, I went glass and my first glass shipments came from a Chinese trophy manufacture.

Later I moved onto proper optical manufactures, but that is another story.

cavx said:

I hope you get a glass or hard plastic version made. Maybe contact a manufacture in China. The companies that make award trophies can pretty much make any shape and they would be a fraction of the cost for a one off than getting it done locally. If they ask what it is, say it is a prototype and you want to product 100s if it works and they will do what they do best.

Click to expand...

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I wonder if I should postpone my meeting until I investigate this further. The thing is, I'm really happy with the company I found here in Toronto, and the person I'm dealing with is also really excited about making this happen. But I guess at the end of the day, it really does come down to dollars and cents.

Also, Hydin is still looking into having the Key to Time done in crystal. Don't know why his source is taking so long to get back to him. I asked him to poke them one more time. I don't know where he gets it done, but it may be one of these China manufacturers, so it'll be interesting to see what they provide as a quote.

cavx said:

Your master looks sensational and I was keen to see how you might cast this. Not to rain on your parade, I cast prisms out of resin a few years ago and did not have 100% success even when I learned how to pour without bubbles.

Click to expand...

Aw, thank you! And you're not raining on my parade at all, quite the opposite. You're backing up my decision to go ahead and have this done by a manufacturing company.

cavx said:

In the end, I went glass and my first glass shipments came from a Chinese trophy manufacture.

Later I moved onto proper optical manufactures, but that is another story.

Click to expand...

Could you tell me a bit more about your story? pm if you prefer.

Thanks,

I met with the company today, they seem very keen on doing it. It's definitely a challenging project for them, but they've got a lot of experience and are quite confident they can produce something very high quality and very awesome. I was quite impressed with the stuff they had on display (they've done props for TV shows and art projects before) so I've got a lot more confidence in them than going with some offshore manufacturer. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

So I'm going to go ahead and get a prototype done of one of the segments. Just trying to decide between the first segment and the fourth. It'll likely be a few weeks before it's done, but as always I'll keep you all up to date!

Oh and also, they were nice enough to let me borrow one of their glass pyramids. This is what the Key to Time would be made out. So just to whet people's appetite, here's an idea of what the Key to Time segments would look like...

FYI, Hydin finally heard back from his crystal guys... They can't do it. At least not without doing a mold and a lot of manual labor. Cost would be well into the thousands. So that's out.

I also heard back from a few places in China that I emailed. Most were completely clued out as to what I was asking for (despite detailed diagrams and descriptions). Those that seemed to understand said they couldn't do it in crystal. Doing it in acrylic might be possible but would require a very large run (500+). (And even those guys I don't think really understood what I wanted.) I had already pretty much written off outsourcing this, but this basically clinches it.

I'm excited about preceding with the Lucite version.

Dalex said:

Aw, thank you! And you're not raining on my parade at all, quite the opposite. You're backing up my decision to go ahead and have this done by a manufacturing company.



Could you tell me a bit more about your story? pm if you prefer.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

Sure, I'll just post it here if that is OK. And just so people who read this know, I am not using this to self promote, but I am the same CAVX that made the "Aussiemorphic Lens" (a 1.33x Horizontal Expansion Anamorphic Lens for Home Theatre).

I first learned about anamorphic lenses on premier of Return Of The Jedi (1983) when I was allowed to watch the film for free if I helped the projectionist of our local cinema set up the film. My task was to ensure that all the reels of film were "lead" out. There was 7 reels to this film and at least 4 had been re-wound. Now imaging the excitement of a 12YO boy who is a Star Wars fan and he is allowed to hold the actual 35mm film! How could I resist a sneak peak? So I stopped re-winding and held the film strip up to the light. The scene was of the Imperial Shuttle (the stolen one the rebels use to land on Endor as it flys in full sun). And what I saw took me back. The image was tall and thin and I asked why. Thinking I was about to get in trouble, I was taken over the projector and shown the anamorphic lens that would be used for this film.

Jump ahead to 2000 and I learned "CinemaScope" could be done in the home with a digital projector. In 2004 I collected info on Runco projectors offering a "235" solution. After reading the info and playing with my own projector, I realized I could do this myself. By 2005, I had made my own prism based version out of water filled acrylic (plastic engineer actually made the prisms).

It was not long after that I wanted a 'solid' version because it was proving impossible for DIYers to follow what I had done. I ventured into casting resins with many fails and few successes. In mid 2006, a K9 (AKA Chinese version of BK7) prisms were discovered and the DIY project became commercial and the rest is history.

If you really want to read my story, you can do so HERE from Page 39.

My first batch of glass prisms was purchased locally and after that, I found manufactures in China that could make each unit for almost 25% of the local costs. The thing about the Chinese is that many still have a "mass production mind set" where they don't really care about quality, just quantity. Since the Games in 2008, they have learned that the western market is prepared to pay slightly more for less of a better thing. You can google companies and you will send many emails. Sorry for the ramble, but it is possible to get almost anything made if you follow it through.

Good Luck with the Key Of Time. It is a cool piece.

Hey Mark!

Thanks for that detailed post. I took a look at the Aussiemorphic Lens, looks pretty fancy! It must have taken you a lot of trial and error to find a place that can make something with the high quality standards you would have needed for a lens like that.

I did email about a dozen companies in China, but none of them worked out. Maybe I could have tried harder. But I just got a gut feeling that I would be better off with a local company. Besides, I'd be a little scared to send off my money to some unknown company, without any idea whether they'd even be producing the correct thing.

Was thinking about this some more... The other main reason this won't work for me is that I don't have the resources to try to find a company in China. If I had a product that I was going to sell and make profits from, then yeah it would be worth me spending a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars to find the perfect offshore company. But since this is just a one-off project, with zero profits involved, it doesn't seem like it's feasible, unless someone already has a company that they've been dealing with (like Hydin and his crystals).

cant wait to see this in glass

IT'S HERE!!!

Picked it up today!! Very happy with the results!!

Here are some quick pictures of it. I'll take some more this weekend as I put together a post for the junkyard.

That looks amazing. Very nice work. I'm almost a little scared to hear what they quotes you for the whole thing...