John Knoll is a prequel era ILM'er. He joined in 1986. I enjoy most of what he's done but he has nothing to do with the OT Stormtroopers.It wouldn't suprise me if he was the one who decided on those awful SE troopers.
Ben
Rogue Troopers
- Thread starter spacebob
- Start date
John Knoll is a prequel era ILM'er. He joined in 1986. I enjoy most of what he's done but he has nothing to do with the OT Stormtroopers.It wouldn't suprise me if he was the one who decided on those awful SE troopers.
Ben
Crisisfilms
New Member
Hmm, you're right. Was thinking he'd done some work on the OT, or confused him with someone else. Never the less, he makes some valid points on the TK helmet changes, and it's nice to see them specifically address it.
What was so awful about the SE troopers? If they were the first designs ever saw in SW in 1977 would u have a problem with them? Seriously, I really don't see that much of a difference. I guess if I was looking hard for it I could as with most things. I don't see why it makes them "bad" because they are a bit different. The 1 or 2 percenters who notice. But that's to be expect here, of course.
I don't know how I'm going to get used to the new OT Rogue troopers. Those new tightened details trip me out. I really like the old stickers 
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
That's a great shot of the new Shoretrooper. I like that bucket a lot.
geordietrooper
Sr Member
that's not the shore trooper
MrSouthpaw
Sr Member
Oh, I see it now. It's very similar, except the visor and the "sunshade" I guess you would call it. I still like it.
@spacebob
Didn't even know there were Tank Troopers until basically now.
I'm just curious, but did people make this big of a fuss when Attack of the Clones came out and everybody got their first glimpse of the PT "Stormie"?
SB
SB
jkno
Legendary Member
There is a big difference between the OT type stormies and PT clones.
tubachris85x
Master Member
Well from an aesthetic perspective, yes, but on can throw a very similar argument that has already been thrown out against the R1 troopers, albeit a different form of continuity - Armor appearance "quality."
Through no fault of the ANH production, the prequels were made using CG over physical costumes, resulting in the ability to produce "perfect" representations of the clonetrooper armor that lacked asymmetry, warps, bumps, shins splitting apart, etc., essentially every known "flaw" of the original TK armor.
Now, the argument that is aforementioned, used against the R1 troopers, is "why" are these so much different from the original ANH armor if it's suppose to (allegedly) end up to 10 minutes before the start of ANH? Well, my argument is then why is the ANH armor so wonky and imperfect if it follows in the footsteps of the clonetroopers in episode 3?
Surely in universe, the armor's aesthetic quality didn't degrade after the Empire was formed, did it?
It's all semantics. So you know what I say to the "purest"? Get over it.
jkno
Legendary Member
When I say OT type Stormies I include here Rogue One Stormtroopers too. There is a big difference between them and the PT Clones. I said it before: I understand why R1 Stormies are how they are, simply because the old armors could not hold up to the HD scrutiny of today, plus Disney might have wanted a bit more mobility for the actors.
Lichtbringer
Master Member
I wonder if that new designs falls under the same rules as a industrial design like the old ones, or if due to the new design Disney finally is able to sue the UK bootlegers if they try to make money from the new design.
Right, but was there this much debate about the minutia of every detail for the clones? I'm just asking, because I wasn't here back then.
SB
jkno
Legendary Member
I think there was, but you can use the search engine to check it out.
cboath
Master Member
There's also the fact that, real world speaking, all armor wouldn't be made in a single solitary location and shipped all over the galaxy. You'd have each location or system or whatever making it's own parts. Climate and location, etc could all factor into design differences. A tropical climate could require more openings for airflow, etc. This group could have been the first (or last) to get the latest updates as well. There are a billion plausible reasons.
From an industrial design perspective, i think it'd have to function differently to get a new copyright. Not sure a 5-10% difference on something that's clearly supposed to be the same thing would qualify.
From an industrial design perspective, i think it'd have to function differently to get a new copyright. Not sure a 5-10% difference on something that's clearly supposed to be the same thing would qualify.
ggriffaw
Sr Member
The main source of unhappiness with the R1 stormtroopers is the expectation that they look virtually the same as the ANH stormtroopers because as far as we know they are supposed to be the same type of trooper. There isn't much complaining about the new R1 troopers (death troopers, shore troopers, etc) because we don't have an already existing costume to compare to. I imagine the same happened with the PT clones but I wasn't around here either.
Obviously people can still complain about the new troopers if they don't like them, but there isn't as much of a direct comparison or expectation of what they should look like.
cyclocrosschris
Active Member
The industrial design standpoint from a legal perspective hits the nail on the head.... 5 to 10 percent change equals New copywrite....look at the evolution (devolution) of vader. Once LFL reworked that awful helmet for vader (watch the behind the scenes stuff) for revenge of the Sith......that became the defacto vader. ONLY DURING THE AINSWORTH TRIAL did Brian Muirs involvement become known to the masses, and he is now being "compensated" after the fact... this new trooper distances it far enough from Ainsworth
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