Efx has a new $300 Darth Vader (precision cast replica) Helmet

bookface said:
:lol

Thanks for that. Can I assume you have no evidence to support your claim then? I'm not trying to be confrontational, it just seems like everyone who supports the polishing idea has no proof to back it up. Even Ginos own helmets don't back it up.
Click to expand...

It's sort of common knowledge, I grew up in the late 1970s and early 1980s and car culture (fixing up old cars) was a big deal back then.

I read about it and many, many car magazines over the years and no, I did not save a magazine that I read 20 years ago to post it here for you.

I'd do your homework for you but honestly I've got more important stuff going on today like my sons Cub Scout Pinewood Derby. I'd encourage you to research auto paint from the 1970s as your schedule allows.
 
That's ok man. I've already done my homework, but it's difficult to find anyone who wants to polish something but not get rid of the orange peel. I guess I'll have to investigate on my own time. I'll let everyone know how it goes and share the results.
 
This is of one of the screen used ESB helmets that was shown several years back debating the gloss vs. polished paint topic.

closeup_analysis_esb_stunt_.jpg


Rather than debate this issue into a rat hole, perhaps just look at the original thread on The Prop Den rather than rehash and presume one side over the other. I remain open to Gino's position - however, when you step-frame through ESB as Vader turns his head, you see some sharp bright reflections... but you also see some fuzzy reflections. And it's quite fuzzy - more than what you'd see with paint that only partially polishes/sands the surface to reduce orange peeling depth. If the underlying paint was not polished but a gloss layer was, this could potentially create two effects: you could get surface reflections that differ from subsurface reflections. If you then rewatch ESB and step-frame through times where he turns his head in specific scenes, you see both sharper bright reflections and fuzzy darker/dull reflections. Gino's argument of orange peeling effect remaining with polishing does not account for both surface phenomenon - and to the level of fuzziness that we see on-screen, so I remain open to the opposing argument of there being a clear coat over a base coat, as seen in the photo above.

The "Kissing Kirchner" shot's fuzzy dark regions can ALSO be seen on-screen, so arguing what was going on with the photo's helmet is an argument for what happened with one of the screen-used helmets.
 
Look also in the new Arlinger Costume Book..no one of the 3 Vaderhelmets inside are looking wet like clearcoat.

28160139ox.jpg



And guys...for the dome you can also use a machine for polishing...that goes a lot faster!:D
 
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CSMacLaren said:
This is of one of the screen used ESB helmets that was shown several years back debating the gloss vs. polished paint topic.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/csmaclaren/Vader/ESB/closeup_analysis_esb_stunt_.jpg

Rather than debate this issue into a rat hole, perhaps just look at the original thread on The Prop Den rather than rehash and presume one side over the other. I remain open to Gino's position - however, when you step-frame through ESB as Vader turns his head, you see some sharp bright reflections... but you also see some fuzzy reflections. And it's quite fuzzy - more than what you'd see with paint that only partially polishes/sands the surface to reduce orange peeling depth. If the underlying paint was not polished but a gloss layer was, this could potentially create two effects: you could get surface reflections that differ from subsurface reflections. If you then rewatch ESB and step-frame through times where he turns his head in specific scenes, you see both sharper bright reflections and fuzzy darker/dull reflections. Gino's argument of orange peeling effect remaining with polishing does not account for both surface phenomenon - and to the level of fuzziness that we see on-screen, so I remain open to the opposing argument of there being a clear coat over a base coat, as seen in the photo above.

The "Kissing Kirchner" shot's fuzzy dark regions can ALSO be seen on-screen, so arguing what was going on with the photo's helmet is an argument for what happened with one of the screen-used helmets.
Click to expand...

Its always like with the UFO-pics...the proofs are always very bad quality!:lol;)
 
Kroenen77 said:
Its always like with the UFO-pics...the proofs are always very bad quality!:lol;)
Click to expand...

I don’t think there’s need to mock opinions or images that are to the contrary. What we try to foster as a community is an open mind. We examine both sides of the argument. This reminds me a lot of the “evidence” many years back that the way to cover the rear of Vader’s helmet was to lengthen the rear flange by 2 inches rather than by simply repositioning the dome. For years, that was the popular belief until the unpopular idea of dome tilt was more thoroughly understood, and today, nobody lengthens the rear of their helmets to cover the back of the neck.
 
CSMacLaren said:
I don’t think there’s need to mock opinions or images that are to the contrary.
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I don´t mock it...but on this pic it can be everything.Sorry.That is no proof and a very bad pic in my eyes.Your right its important to explore props really rigorous..but with facts and no pics with the resolution of 10 pixels.;)
 
Kroenen77 said:
I don´t mock it...but on this pic it can be everything.Sorry.That is no proof and a very bad pic in my eyes.Your right its important to explore props really rigorous..but with facts and no pics with the resolution of 10 pixels.;)
Click to expand...

It's your opinion it's a bad pic, but it sounds like you've not read the old thread back on The Prop Den, as that pic wasn't created by someone finding the image randomly on Google. The thread was participated by two people who have seen and handled the real thing, one of whom (Vadermania) had been to the Archives. The pic in question was by Vadermonkey who has handled a screen used ESB Stunt. Vadermonkey, at one point, facilitated a public exhibition that featured the stunt costume (and to be clear: he handled an ESB stunt helmet, examined it up close). Would you be so kind as to simply ask Vadermania and/or Vadermonkey on The Prop Den to share what each of them saw?

Opinions are great, as we need to examine every facet of this, but I'd like to remind everyone that the ability to ridicule an opposing argument does not make their own stance conclusive.

Kroenen, I'd welcome you to share your painting background with us. If you know the formulation of paints of that era, how they age and lasted, that would be a great benefit to the topic. I'd respectfully remind everyone that may of the surviving helmets have had a great deal of handling, cleaning, wear and tear over the decades. A photo taken decades ago is different than a recent photograph. Also, a 300 dpi book of a small image may not provide enough clarity for someone to tell either way. I have seen that book's content only in passing, and because they were taken at a distance and not up close, one shot with paint wear was inconclusive.
 
I used to work with electric guitars, building them, restoring vintage and recreating vintage ones. The aging on the Costumes helmets looks identical to the aging on gitars from the 50's all the way to the 80's, and guess what.... all of these guitars are clear coated, and do not look "wet" from their clear coats. This is simply damage to the finish from natural aging, dust and fluids from handling over the years. So to say that the helmets on the book dont have clear coats because they dont look "wet", is a very misinformed and inadequate conclusion. Whereas the picture being denominated as "Bad quality", clearly shows the difference in the layers of the finishing process, despite its "terrible 10 pixel" quality.

Just saying...
 
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Isn't it possible that different helmets were painted differently? It seems like a leap to say all were created a certain way based on seeing a few.

Sometimes the helmets look different within the same film. Maybe those were finished differently.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
 
bookface said:
Seems like no one is planning on providing any actual examples to back up what they're saying though. :(
Click to expand...

bookface said:
:lol
Thanks for that. Can I assume you have no evidence to support your claim then? I'm not trying to be confrontational, it just seems like everyone who supports the polishing idea has no proof to back it up. Even Ginos own helmets don't back it up.
Click to expand...

Me neither...

Just curious when, how, and why this has become a contest...?
 
From everything I've read and seen, this seems to be the case and what I believe to be true.

ggriffaw said:
Isn't it possible that different helmets were painted differently? It seems like a leap to say all were created a certain way based on seeing a few.

Sometimes the helmets look different within the same film. Maybe those were finished differently.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
By the way...

While we're all obsessed with analysis, analyze this: Why does it matter...?

Paint your mother****ing helmet however you feel best. Polish your dome. Clear coat your dome. Dip the whole ****ing thing in a vat of Future Floor Wax. Do whatever YOU want.
:p

What is the point and purpose of deciphering - down to a chemical basis, as some may have it - the precise technique applied to the originals? These are replicas for ******'s sake. Not counterfeits...




'Course, I'm still dying to know exactly how the attained the speckling pattern on the original Death Star... :cool
 
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PHArchivist said:
By the way...

While we're all obsessed with analysis, analyze this: Why does it matter...?

Paint your mother****ing helmet however you feel best. Polish your dome. Clear coat your dome. Dip the whole ****ing thing in a vat of Future Floor Wax. Do whatever YOU want.

What is the point and purpose of deciphering - down to a chemical basis, as some may have it - the precise technique applied to the originals? These are replicas for ******'s sake. Not counterfeits...




'Course, I'm still dying to know exactly how the attained the speckling pattern on the original Death Star... :cool
Click to expand...



:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol Screen Shot 2017-01-29 at 2.24.53 AM.png
 
PHArchivist said:
Glad you like my post.
Click to expand...


:D In all seriousness though, this is the Replica Prop Forum and its the place for this sort of details to be discussed by those of us who obsess over such details. I respect your opinion and indeed understand it, as there are other props I am not as passionate about and wouldn't really care for such a level of accuracy as long as I have a decent representation of the original. However for some of us Vader props ( more importantly the helmets) are the mother of all rabbit holes :D . Vader helmets and Blade runner blaster lol
 
CSMacLaren said:
It's your opinion it's a bad pic, but it sounds like you've not read the old thread back on The Prop Den, as that pic wasn't created by someone finding the image randomly on Google. The thread was participated by two people who have seen and handled the real thing, one of whom (Vadermania) had been to the Archives. The pic in question was by Vadermonkey who has handled a screen used ESB Stunt. Vadermonkey, at one point, facilitated a public exhibition that featured the stunt costume (and to be clear: he handled an ESB stunt helmet, examined it up close). Would you be so kind as to simply ask Vadermania and/or Vadermonkey on The Prop Den to share what each of them saw?

Opinions are great, as we need to examine every facet of this, but I'd like to remind everyone that the ability to ridicule an opposing argument does not make their own stance conclusive.

Kroenen, I'd welcome you to share your painting background with us. If you know the formulation of paints of that era, how they age and lasted, that would be a great benefit to the topic. I'd respectfully remind everyone that may of the surviving helmets have had a great deal of handling, cleaning, wear and tear over the decades. A photo taken decades ago is different than a recent photograph. Also, a 300 dpi book of a small image may not provide enough clarity for someone to tell either way. I have seen that book's content only in passing, and because they were taken at a distance and not up close, one shot with paint wear was inconclusive.
Click to expand...

There are really no proofs for the clearcoat...but lots against it:

-Why should Gino paint his own helmets wrong if he is working for EFX and has handled lots of Originalprops?
-Why is the ROTJ Reveal not sprayed with clearcoat?(saw it in person)
-Why looks the gumetal on the face never so shiny like the black areas?Looks always semigloss on the ESB-screenshots.
-If the Colors on the Originalhelmets are aged and lost the shine,why is the black still glossy and the gunmetal not?

Lots of questions...oh and here is a pic of a unpolished naked gunmetal on my ROTJ-Reveal...you see how good it mirrors on a small distance.So if I would polish it I think it would shine a lot more.

28163094oo.jpg


This is also a good pic to show that the gunmetal is not glossy.

28163130ik.jpg


And about the thesis that they used different helmets....in my eyes the only helmets that could be sprayed with clearcoat is in ROTJ the one that Vader used in the deathstar hangar at the beginning and when he talks to the emperor.But it could also be a very food polish job.
 
Kroenen77 said:
There are really no proofs for the clearcoat...but lots against it:

-Why should Gino paint his own helmets wrong if he is working for EFX and has handled lots of Originalprops?
-Why is the ROTJ Reveal not sprayed with clearcoat?(saw it in person)
-Why looks the gumetal on the face never so shiny like the black areas?Looks always semigloss on the ESB-screenshots.
-If the Colors on the Originalhelmets are aged and lost the shine,why is the black still glossy and the gunmetal not?

Lots of questions...oh and here is a pic of a unpolished naked gunmetal on my ROTJ-Reveal...you see how good it mirrors on a small distance.So if I would polish it I think it would shine a lot more.

http://up.picr.de/28163094oo.jpg

This is also a good pic to show that the gunmetal is not glossy.

http://up.picr.de/28163130ik.jpg

And about the thesis that they used different helmets....in my eyes the only helmets that could be sprayed with clearcoat is in ROTJ the one that Vader used in the deathstar hangar at the beginning and when he talks to the emperor.But it could also be a very food polish job.
Click to expand...

Regarding the ROTJ reveal: in that part of the movie vader's helmet is very dusty and damaged/ weathered. It would make sense for that not to be high gloss.

You say the gunmetal isn't glossy... in a very dark screenshot. But it does look very shiny/glossy in the picture you posted above.. same as the one below.
star-wars5-movie-screencaps.com-8658.jpg

Looking at these screenshots though it does seem less shiny than the ones above.
Screen Shot 2017-01-29 at 12.52.23.pngScreen Shot 2017-01-29 at 12.51.53.pngIMG_0077 copy 2.png
 
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No I say it is shiny when you polish it.But not so glossy like with clearcoat.The question is..can you polish the shine of the moviehelmets on the gunmetal without clearcoat?
I say YES!So the glossy helmets on your pics are only polished and so shiny.
And the pics from ROTJ are different helmets...the first is not the revealmask..only a normal mask.The last 2 pics are the reveal!;)
 
I know! ;) I was trying to illustrate that point too :)

Well I say this calls for a simple demonstration? A sample of gunmetal with polish and one with a clearcoat ;)?
 
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