Sym-Cha
Master Member
So ChrisRWars ... once your Balance Pipe is emasculated and becomes a proper Obi-Wan emitter, will you now consider brazing it onto your precious Hales?
Chaïm
Chaïm
The Ultimate Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi Real Vintage Parts Lightsaber Group
- Thread starter Sym-Cha
- Start date
I think all the marks we're seeing are from a ball peen hammer used to try to crimp the balance pipe onto whatever adapter they were using. One of the books possibly by Roger Christian talk about buying loads of airplane scrap from the north of England which the engines seem to have been part of.
That tells me that they didn't need to return the balance pipe but most likely needed to return the hales. My assumption is that it was rented from Bapty as well as the booster. That's based on that prop house being used for a lot of period pieces where military and other props from the previous world wars were needed and provided by the house.
That makes me think the grenade and booster were sent back after filming was finished. Another option is that the same parts were sourced and bought outright in order to do the pick up shots in California this would mean a second hero saber was put together and is the one pictured above. Either way the chips in the balance pipe and the dents match the sort of marks you would get from using a ball peen hammer to try and crimp the pieces together.
It also explains the subtle but obviously fresh damage to the wind vane. Anyone who has disassembled an old hales will know that the area above the wind vane on the stem is covered by another brass piece which shields the neck from a large amount of oxide. The popular theory has been that area of the neck was cleaned in order to braze or solder the pieces together which doesn't make any sense to me. I've been a professional metal worker for the last 10 years and I would never bother to try and fill the sort of gap that exists between the neck on a hales and a balance pipe with any sort of molten material. In order to braze or solder pieces of that size the entire area needs to be up to heat and that means that you end up with a large amount of discoloration and scale and damage to brass especially because it is a very good conductor of heat. No part of the neck shows any of the signs of scaling from exposure to heat.
I think it would be interesting to do a test with some of the parts that Dave P made recently. All metal has granular structure that grows and shrinks with exposure to heat. In the case of steel based metals that grain when left unchecked creates brittle boundaries that are prone to breakage. If someone were crazy enough to take a ball peen hammer to the edge of one of their balance pipes I wouldn't be surprised if the chips looked exactly the same as the cycles of heating and cooling naturally stress the grain in steel.
That came out a lot longer than I meant but hopefully it helps shed some light on what I'm seeing in the photo Chaim shared above
That tells me that they didn't need to return the balance pipe but most likely needed to return the hales. My assumption is that it was rented from Bapty as well as the booster. That's based on that prop house being used for a lot of period pieces where military and other props from the previous world wars were needed and provided by the house.
That makes me think the grenade and booster were sent back after filming was finished. Another option is that the same parts were sourced and bought outright in order to do the pick up shots in California this would mean a second hero saber was put together and is the one pictured above. Either way the chips in the balance pipe and the dents match the sort of marks you would get from using a ball peen hammer to try and crimp the pieces together.
It also explains the subtle but obviously fresh damage to the wind vane. Anyone who has disassembled an old hales will know that the area above the wind vane on the stem is covered by another brass piece which shields the neck from a large amount of oxide. The popular theory has been that area of the neck was cleaned in order to braze or solder the pieces together which doesn't make any sense to me. I've been a professional metal worker for the last 10 years and I would never bother to try and fill the sort of gap that exists between the neck on a hales and a balance pipe with any sort of molten material. In order to braze or solder pieces of that size the entire area needs to be up to heat and that means that you end up with a large amount of discoloration and scale and damage to brass especially because it is a very good conductor of heat. No part of the neck shows any of the signs of scaling from exposure to heat.
I think it would be interesting to do a test with some of the parts that Dave P made recently. All metal has granular structure that grows and shrinks with exposure to heat. In the case of steel based metals that grain when left unchecked creates brittle boundaries that are prone to breakage. If someone were crazy enough to take a ball peen hammer to the edge of one of their balance pipes I wouldn't be surprised if the chips looked exactly the same as the cycles of heating and cooling naturally stress the grain in steel.
That came out a lot longer than I meant but hopefully it helps shed some light on what I'm seeing in the photo Chaim shared above
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Yeah - so I don’t know exactly, but Inconel is a very hard to machine alloy. It’s not the sheet metal clamp, so the idea of crimping the lower emitter (or attempting to) lost favor with me when I realized the material.
In Tunisia there is (what looks like) a solid transition to the emitter. It’s dark, and I can’t see a gap between the two, so it’s always looked like something other than nuts and bolts to me.
The chronicles shots show the emitter plug to be VERY deep in the emitter, like only 1/8” give or take of a plug nearly at the bottom. And considering we can see it’s not flush… I would say imagine a thick washer shaped thing.
Thinking about all this makes me lean towards sloppy brazing (including the ground/stripped upper neck) or epoxy for the sake of cataloging the props afterwards. I mean, they did drill and tap screws into the bottom of the grenade, so something to create that sloppy look but not limited to heavier intervention?
Oh there’s also cloth inside the clamp around the grenade bottom
Sym-Cha
Master Member
Could the methode to attach the emitter to the Hales neck been done with tag welding? According to wikipedia and I quote : 'TAG welding was the name given in the early 1970's to the then novel and revolutionary method of rod welding previously problematic metals.'
As I suggested to ChrisRWars to paint his spacer underneath the clamp black, before adding the G R A F L E X clamp, instead he used, rather clever, some black gaffer tape. So thd9791 could it too be gaffer tape instead of cloth around the grenade bottom?
Chaïm
As I suggested to ChrisRWars to paint his spacer underneath the clamp black, before adding the G R A F L E X clamp, instead he used, rather clever, some black gaffer tape. So thd9791 could it too be gaffer tape instead of cloth around the grenade bottom?
Chaïm
Not sure if this has already been discussed or sussed out, but I have concluded that *some*, not all, of the original Hales grenades were not subject to blueing, but rather coated in a shellac/methylated spirit mixture; as is commonly seen on various Mills grenades from the same era.
Photo creds to teecrooz (I had a skim through this thread) where, just like on one of my Hales, you can see areas of leftover "shellac" that has come away:
- As can also be seen on the Mills grenade as I mentioned previously:
Darker or blackened Hales grenades would still likely have been blued using a phosphate-type process as was also common of the era. Perhaps the methods used to preserve the grenades for storage (either shellac or blueing) would differ depending on the manufacturer i.e. cotton co, ammonal etc - no clue!
info from a couple war forums, namely the great war forum (regarding the mills grenade in particular and various processes)
Not sure if this has been discussed here, but if it hasn't, cool!
Photo creds to teecrooz (I had a skim through this thread) where, just like on one of my Hales, you can see areas of leftover "shellac" that has come away:
- As can also be seen on the Mills grenade as I mentioned previously:
Darker or blackened Hales grenades would still likely have been blued using a phosphate-type process as was also common of the era. Perhaps the methods used to preserve the grenades for storage (either shellac or blueing) would differ depending on the manufacturer i.e. cotton co, ammonal etc - no clue!
info from a couple war forums, namely the great war forum (regarding the mills grenade in particular and various processes)
Not sure if this has been discussed here, but if it hasn't, cool!
Most of the time it looks to me more like a sloppy brazing, that is then sloppily cleaned with a dremel or something like that. But sometimes i think I see what could be marks from hammering, although probably not directly with the hammer, but something with a sharp tip. Trying to hit the lower step of the balance pipe with a decent size hammer will be kind of tricky without hitting the upper step or smashing the windvane.
I cannot imagine why anyone would think either is a good idea when things like glue, epoxy, tape, etc. exist, but we can only guess from what we see. If the grenade was really rented, I bet they had some hard time returning it in this condition.
I did the "Dave P parts test" myself a while ago. but I chose to go with the "sloppy brazing/dremeling" look as dremeling might explain the dents in the BP upper step better than hammering.
I cannot imagine why anyone would think either is a good idea when things like glue, epoxy, tape, etc. exist, but we can only guess from what we see. If the grenade was really rented, I bet they had some hard time returning it in this condition.
I did the "Dave P parts test" myself a while ago. but I chose to go with the "sloppy brazing/dremeling" look as dremeling might explain the dents in the BP upper step better than hammering.
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Wow even if the original wasn't done that way yours looks pretty close to what we see! Great job!
No, parts were heated and soldered together. The material is regular silver solder wire.
Might have to try this now
DarthBra
New Member
I have been reading here but any idea what the D ring from the Obi saber is actually from.
I would rather have the original part but reluctantly otherwise will have to put up with a Romans replica.
I should add I’m just about to get Scott J to drill my tap wheel and modify my second male balance pipe.
So I would much rather a vintage part applied.
I would rather have the original part but reluctantly otherwise will have to put up with a Romans replica.
I should add I’m just about to get Scott J to drill my tap wheel and modify my second male balance pipe.
So I would much rather a vintage part applied.
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Sym-Cha
Master Member
Hello DarthBra and welcome,
The origin of any of the D-rings for ANH lightsabers is not known ... however I have found several possible sources which were around in 1976 ... one of which is a G R A F L E X camera case :
or perhaps they came from medical cases :
One thing is certain they were more round than a regular D-ring i.e. :
... it's even possible they were handmade ... I had this one made for my Luke ANH :
And Roy from wannawanga.com is selling loose D-rings of the correct shape ... choose option ANH D-ring :
And if you're getting the vintage Marconi ME-transistors than scottjua can provide some vintage washers with your order
I hope this info helps.
Chaïm
P.S. And when your build is done do send me 2 large pictures so I can make you a Mechanismo Blueprint and add you to the new Picture Index
The origin of any of the D-rings for ANH lightsabers is not known ... however I have found several possible sources which were around in 1976 ... one of which is a G R A F L E X camera case :
or perhaps they came from medical cases :
One thing is certain they were more round than a regular D-ring i.e. :
... it's even possible they were handmade ... I had this one made for my Luke ANH :
And Roy from wannawanga.com is selling loose D-rings of the correct shape ... choose option ANH D-ring :
And if you're getting the vintage Marconi ME-transistors than scottjua can provide some vintage washers with your order
I hope this info helps.
Chaïm
P.S. And when your build is done do send me 2 large pictures so I can make you a Mechanismo Blueprint and add you to the new Picture Index
DarthBra
New Member
Thank you,Hello DarthBra and welcome,
The origin of any of the D-rings for ANH lightsabers is not known ... however I have found several possible sources which were around in 1976 ... one of which is a G R A F L E X camera case :
View attachment 1812815
View attachment 1812816
or perhaps they came from medical cases :
View attachment 1812817
One thing is certain they were more round than a regular D-ring i.e. :
View attachment 1812819
... it's even possible they were handmade ... I had this one made for my Luke ANH :
View attachment 1812820
And Roy from wannawanga.com is selling loose D-rings of the correct shape ... choose option ANH D-ring :
View attachment 1812821
And if you're getting the vintage Marconi ME-transistors than scottjua can provide some vintage washers with your order
View attachment 1812824
I hope this info helps.
Chaïm
P.S. And when your build is done do send me 2 large pictures so I can make you a Mechanismo Blueprint and add you to the new Picture Index
I have ordered one from Roman for now, but I will always keep my eyes out for the vintage part.
I already have the ME DA11’s for my build I just opted to have the Romans ones on for now, since I didn’t want to damage the real ones, again, I will be looking out for those 09’s.
Scott was supposed to send me 2 vintage washers with my first BP but he forgot lol, so I will be sent them when my next one comes back.
The tap wheel on my build is two thirds original as I had opted to use a Romans wheel since I didn’t want to drill my vintage part, I since decided I will and am sending it to Scott to do for me.
The calculator bubble strip is a WannaWanga, it may be that I wreck my calculator at some point but maybe not until I have another in my collection for display.
If you look at the photo of the saber in its display you can see the transistors in the front left corner.
(I haven’t even drilled the D ring on my ANH either and my grips are held on with double sided tape. I recently sprayed the saber with WD-40 inside and out and popped it back on display, even the edge of my grenade where it enters the Graflex clamp has masking tape around it).
I am absolutely loving that D ring on the medical box. I’m going to have to keep a keen eye out for that, thank you very much, you have certainly given me a lot to think about and check out.
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The handle is flipped depending on the filming version (aka Chronicles or Tunisia) I believe.
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