Yes, but the security for it would have been far more robust if it had not have been intercepted by Khan in its' infant stages.
Star Trek: Questions you always wanted answers to
- Thread starter Riceball
- Start date
I don't think that adds up, for two reasons:
First, David says "I" used protomatter in the Genesis matrix. He doesn't say "WE". This suggests that he did it and concealed that he did so from the rest of the research team. Looking at how brash David was in TWOK, it makes sense he'd be headstrong and impatient about the project too.
But even if the whole research team made the protomatter choice, they all paid with their lives too. Except Carol.
And second, if David had not used protomatter, he says "it might have been years...or never." This means the Reliant wouldn't be scouting for test planets, and Khan would not have escaped. I don't buy that someone else necessarily would have tried to steal it. Genesis was a secret until Khan got in the way of their plans.
Nope, to me, this is all on David's youth and disdain for rules. He was just like his father in that way.
Bad guys wanted Genesis because it was Genesis. Not because it used protomatter. Even if they never got it working right, they had it to a point where it would still be a destructive force, and bad things would likely still happen.
Yes, David screwed up, I'm not saying he didn't. And yes, it's a "he must die due to his hubris" thematic thing going on. Of course.
I'm talking about Saavik making an illogical statement.
Yes, David screwed up, I'm not saying he didn't. And yes, it's a "he must die due to his hubris" thematic thing going on. Of course.
I'm talking about Saavik making an illogical statement.
Yes, of course, bad guys would want Genesis because it was Genesis. Not arguing that.
But David's actions REVEALED Genesis to the galaxy as well. It was so under wraps that even Spock and McCoy had never heard of it. So it is "what if?" speculation to assume bad guys must show up sooner or later and take it. I could just as easily say no, they never solved the problem without protomatter, and so Starfleet mothballed the project before it could leak. There's no "Section 31" in Roddenberry's Trek, so Starfleet's idealism still grants the possibility that Genesis might not have leaked at all.
I mean, we could take the "what if" games even farther. If David had waited, it's likely Kirk and crew would have been trapped on Earth when the whale Probe arrived. They were teaching at the Academy in San Francisco, after all. The Enterprise was only going on a "little training cruise", so it probably would have been home. So did David's "impatience" save the world?
Nope, as far as Saavik's observation of the HERE AND NOW (and not trying to guess 'what if?' about the future), David's actions indeed caused all the pain and suffering she claims. We don't know that it would have happened anyway. Cause, effect. David was impatient, therefore Khan was found, murder and sacrifice ensued.
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Of course they wanted it because of what it was and not what it used to do it. But the "point" they had it to was enabled because David used protomatter. They would not have gotten to the planetary testing stage had David not used it. The statement "it might have been years" meant that this inclusion greatly accelerated Genesis' development to where it truly was an awesome weapon.
Also keep in mind: the Klingons intercepted Kirk's transmission to Starfleet about the project (ref. STII:TSFS), which how they gained knowledge of it. Had David not used protomatter and accelerated its' development, it would not have been available to be obtained by Khan, and Kruge would never have learned of its' existence.
So Saavik's statement makes perfect sense here: David's impatience and arrogance fast forwarded the project to the point where the consequences were directly tied to David's impatience and arrogance.
Saavik could say almost the same thing to the Reliant science officer for not recognizing what planet in the Ceti Alpha system they were orbiting.
She could say the same thing about any action in the history of the Genesis project that made them call Starfleet to ask them to start looking for planets on a Wednesday instead of a Thursday.
There are infinite factors that led the Reliant to that planet on that day.
It's like if I'm part of a team that baked cookies for an event, and I decided to sprinkle coconut on them, ignoring the possibilities that there might be people allergic to it, and it turned one of the patrons indeed was.... but it also happens that the raw dough was tainted and everybody died.
Saavik would blame the deaths on my coconut. I shouldn't have used it, but it wasn't the cause.
She could say the same thing about any action in the history of the Genesis project that made them call Starfleet to ask them to start looking for planets on a Wednesday instead of a Thursday.
There are infinite factors that led the Reliant to that planet on that day.
It's like if I'm part of a team that baked cookies for an event, and I decided to sprinkle coconut on them, ignoring the possibilities that there might be people allergic to it, and it turned one of the patrons indeed was.... but it also happens that the raw dough was tainted and everybody died.
Saavik would blame the deaths on my coconut. I shouldn't have used it, but it wasn't the cause.
How would they (Carol's staff of Starfleet) have known which planet Ceti Alpha V really was, since it no longer resembled the world it had been? Also, how many records would they have had of that system in its' previous configuration?
Also: Kirk didn't exactly let Starfleet know that Khan and his crew were left there. So you can't really blame Reliant's staff for not knowing to avoid there.
As for the "tainted cookie" example: I'm sorry Treadwell, but that's not the same thing. Genesis was complete enough to be used because David Marcus took a dangerous shortcut. It would have been useless to Khan incomplete; Khan only learned of it because Captain Terrell and Chekhov were captured by Khan and implanted with Ceti Eels, and forced to tell Khan why they were there.
They would not have been there if Genesis were not ready to be tested, and that would not have taken place (by David's own admission) unless he had used protomatter to "solve problems". There may have been "infinite factors" involved, but only a select handful of them led to the fateful events of ST:II TWOK...
...and the catalyst was David's use of protomatter, making Genesis a viable system at a time when Khan (and later Kruge) could get at it.
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I agree… there’s a big science mistake on a planetary level here. The filmmakers basically had to waive their hands, state something as fact, and move on without anybody questioning it. Ceti Alpha 6 exploding with leave a large debris field, that certainly would’ve been detected by ships entering the system. And remember, we’re only what less than 20 years out from when Khan was exiled in the first place?
if we assume that Kirk colonizing Ceti alpha 5 with Khan and his crew was clandestine (Space Seed), and kept from Starfleet so that nobody but the Enterprise crew knew about it… but why would Kirk have done that, kept his secret from Starfleet?
If Starfleet already knew of the system then they probably had it mapped; there would be one less planet than you expected when you came back into the system, and the planet you went to would have a different orbit than what you expected.
And there’s the continuity error with Chekov. During the original series/space seed, he was not yet a member of the crew. So he would have no firsthand knowledge of the events of Khan and their exile to the Ceti alpha system. However in Star Trek 2 checkov immediately recognizes the Botany Bay, knows that Khan might be around, and it’s an emergency to escape. He then talks about Khan and Kirk as if he were there. Khan even says he never forgets a face, and recognizes Checkov and eventually remembers his name.
Which changes the canon, meaning that Checkov knew about Khan all along, at least in the continuity of Star Trek 2. Which also means, when they came into the system, Checkov would’ve known about Citi Alpha 5 versus Alpha 6.
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