Some V3 modifications, pics...

[Colin Droidmilk]

So glad to see someone tweaking the nose on the V3 kit. As outstanding a kit as it is, the nose has always seemed off to me.

Hi PH. Despite what I'm doing here, I do think even in its unmodified position it's very strong as form in its own right - it's firmly drawn in abstract line structure etc.

But I should emphasise that this tweaking shouldn't be seen as simply 'correcting' the nose in isolation, rather it's using a nose extension to 'improve' the entire fuselage dimensions. I don't think a mere tweak of the nose will render a perfect match - the issue seems to be also bound up with a fractional difference from ILM in the fuselage somewhere which makes for a slightly, slightly stubbier feel (this is to be seen in many of the recent X-wing replica and model offerings, incl. eFX and Finemolds, seems to me) So this is never going to be a true 'fix' but a trade-off to get a little extra length into the fuselage.

Again, here's another long-looking incarnation of Red 1, this near ortho profile of the Red1 fuselage. (I photoshopped out the black line on the canyon wall below the ship , so the eye has an unmolested view.)

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

Kept my head down while Monsieur won his well-deserved accolades! Meanwhile, for other mere mortals out there who must still walk with wing-blocks and kit engines (they're still very nice, anyway, I think), here's an update on my effort.

The nose tweak is the only new thing I'm contributing to the forum, so I'll concentrate on that.

In the profile view of the V3 fuselage there is a 1mm dip in the line of the upper fuse plane (across a distance of about 7.5mm) just before it meets the nose ridge. I don't believe any such dipping is present with ILM, so I provisionally filled it with white blu-tac. This made the plane flush with the nose ridge, so I built up the rear of the nose by 1mm. This is useful anyway, as my 3mm nose extension requires such a build-up to maintain shape. The effect of this on the overall look is that the fuselage gains in 'forward-assertiveness', something I feel ILM has more of than the kit (this difference to ILM appears not so much in profile, perhaps, but in other combined side/top views).


I'm increasingly certain this is because the canopy and cockpit region of the fuselage are a bit too wide. The front edge of the V3 canopy is 30mm wide. I don't own a V2, but judging from photos, I predicted the V2 canopy front width - which looks closer to ILM to me - would be 27mm. A member here confirmed it is indeed 27mm. Plus, the ILM front canopy edge width and droidstrip width, according to the Red3 and Red1 topshots (and these are pretty trustworthy since the two dimensions are in the same plane) - are practically the same width as each other, with a ratio of 1 :1 in one photo, and 1 :1.1 in the other. The V3 canopy front edge width is 5mm wider than the droidstrip, a ratio of 2.5 :3. The canopy front edge is also a little big in relation to Sat V can width. Thus, the canopy front edge - and therefore the crucial fuselage plane to which it joins - is too wide for the nose, making the nose appear a bit off (to me, at any rate). In effect, what I'm doing with my pulled forward nose is 'restoring' the relationship between the front edge of the canopy and the nose-tip by adding 3mm to the fuselage length to compensate.

Now I can't emphasize enough that the above is no BASH. I love this object - it's my most prized possession, and Mike and Moe clearly remain bestowers of manna from heaven. But I thought I'd share my observations in the interest of the Forum's general drive to perfection... maybe it's all mad and blind BS, but I don't think so...

 

[Robiwon]

Good to see some updates Colin! I think it does create a nicer profile with the extended nose.:thumbsup

 

[JPolacchi]

Anyone hear from Mike Salzo?I had tried contacting him but have not heard back.

 

[dirtydave]

I sent Mike a PM the other day & he replied right back.Give him another PM?

 

[MonsieurTox]

You're doing a great job on this ! That's funny, you're making your V3 longer while Im shortening my V2 by 15 mm :lol (Im doing Blue Leader, which was shorter than the other).

I think you're right about the width of the canopy, it's a bit too large on the V3 but the overall shape is way better than the V2 and I think it's by a bit less than 3 mm.

Also be careful, because the actual R2 strip is a bit wider than the one provided in the kit.

Anyway is for sure something which has to be reworked on the kit, and you're doing it well !

Please, build Red 6 or Red 12 !

 

[JPolacchi]

Hmmm..I e-mailed him,maybe that's why?

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

Good to see some updates Colin! I think it does create a nicer profile with the extended nose.:thumbsup

Glad you like it!

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

You're doing a great job on this ! That's funny, you're making your V3 longer while Im shortening my V2 by 15 mm :lol (Im doing Blue Leader, which was shorter than the other).

I think you're right about the width of the canopy, it's a bit too large on the V3 but the overall shape is way better than the V2 and I think it's by a bit less than 3 mm.

Also be careful, because the actual R2 strip is a bit wider than the one provided in the kit.

Anyway is for sure something which has to be reworked on the kit, and you're doing it well !

Please, build Red 6 or Red 12 !

Thanks for chiming in! Thanks for the droidstrip width info. It makes sense ; I wouldn't want to trim that canopy edge by 5mm. 3mm looks more like it. Which would bring it to 27mm - the same value I extrapolated from the ratio I'd worked out between the Saturn V cans and the canopy front width as seen in the Red 1 and Red 3 top views.

I do agree that the V3 fuselage overall has more authority in its feel than the V2.

Since I was ten I've dreamed of painting the Red 2 fuselage, but in a fit of Luke 'n' Artoo icon-headedness I ordered Red 5 engines from Mike, ha ha... But what's Red 6 look like? I'm certainly tempted by that Red 12 underbelly though. ( cheeky request : you got any pics of these you could put up - you know, without getting into trouble or anything...?)

 

[Robiwon]

Sorry for getting OT in your thread Colin but had to shout out to MonsieurTox and say "looking forward to your Blue Leader build!" I kinda like that bird.

We now return you to your regulary scheduled programing..........

 

[ILMwannabe]

Please, build Red 6 or Red 12 !

I second that notion! Never seen an accurate build of Porkin's ship nor Red Twelve.

What did they look like? I only have this photo - I hope it helps - sorry if it's been posted before (I'm a newbie), although these may be pyros (isn't that a Rock Group? "They may be Pyros")

Excellent work - can't wait to see it finished! I'll be starting on mine soon and MonsieurTox's is excellent also.

 

[MonsieurTox]

I second that notion! Never seen an accurate build of Porkin's ship nor Red Twelve.

What did they look like? I only have this photo - I hope it helps - sorry if it's been posted before (I'm a newbie), although these may be pyros (isn't that a Rock Group? "They may be Pyros")

Excellent work - can't wait to see it finished! I'll be starting on mine soon and MonsieurTox's is excellent also.

The one on your pic labelled as Red 6 is actually Red 12
Ive never noticed the one on the background, with the masked or solid canopy and those kind of blacl or gray strip ! Good eye !

 

[MonsieurTox]

Thanks for chiming in! Thanks for the droidstrip width info. It makes sense ; I wouldn't want to trim that canopy edge by 5mm. 3mm looks more like it. Which would bring it to 27mm - the same value I extrapolated from the ratio I'd worked out between the Saturn V cans and the canopy front width as seen in the Red 1 and Red 3 top views.

I do agree that the V3 fuselage overall has more authority in its feel than the V2.

Since I was ten I've dreamed of painting the Red 2 fuselage, but in a fit of Luke 'n' Artoo icon-headedness I ordered Red 5 engines from Mike, ha ha... But what's Red 6 look like? I'm certainly tempted by that Red 12 underbelly though. ( cheeky request : you got any pics of these you could put up - you know, without getting into trouble or anything...?)

Yeah it depends of which bird you're doing, the R2 slot is a bit different :s

I only have one pic of Red 6 :

Better rez :

Would love to see more of it !

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

I second that notion! Never seen an accurate build of Porkin's ship nor Red Twelve.

What did they look like? I only have this photo - I hope it helps - sorry if it's been posted before (I'm a newbie), although these may be pyros (isn't that a Rock Group? "They may be Pyros")

Excellent work - can't wait to see it finished! I'll be starting on mine soon and MonsieurTox's is excellent also.

Thanks for your comments - and thanks for this picture. Where's it grabbed from? I'm familiar of course with other table shots showing Dykstra and the model team, but I've never seen this before.

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

Thanks Monsieur Tox for the Red 6 pic. Sure looks nice, but I'd have to make an awful lot up! Which I could probably do, and which would certainly be great fun, but for my only SS X I really want to do a close copy of some ILM paintwork. So I'm leaning to Red 1 or Red 2. Or even a heretical combination of my favourite sections from both, since I'm never going to have the time, money or space to build more than one of these things! Don't know, don't know, decisions, decisions...

 

[ILMwannabe]

. . . and thanks for this picture. Where's it grabbed from? I'm familiar of course with other table shots showing Dykstra and the model team, but I've never seen this before.

It's a capture from the SW DVD set - the bonus disk.

 

[ILMwannabe]

The one on your pic labelled as Red 6 is actually Red 12 . . .

The reason I think it's Red 6 is because of this photo, which seems to show Reds 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 and the "unmarked" X-Wing on the same table. I don't see any with "12" markings but I could be mistaken. Im all the photos it's always the same seven X-Wings, so from different angles we can begin to collate the information.

May I ask, how do you know it's Red 12? Are there other photos floating around?

It has also been mentioned that there may be two Red 1's on the table, a pyro and a hero. The one marked "Red 2" may actually be the second "Red 1". Also note the different markings on Red 3 - it does not look like the well-publicized photos of Biggs' ship - maybe it was the pyro version. The unpainted one also seems to feature the famous "red" laser cannon, which was seen in other photos in the paint shop.

These series of pictures may have been taken the same day, or the same week.

 

[MonsieurTox]

The reason I think it's Red 6 is because of this photo, which seems to show Reds 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 and the "unmarked" X-Wing on the same table. I don't see any with "12" markings but I could be mistaken.

It has also been mentioned that there may be two Red 1's on the table, a pyro and a hero. The one marked "Red 2" may actually be the second "Red 1". Also note the different markings on Red 3 - it does not look like the well-publicized photos of Biggs' ship - maybe it was the pyro version.

These series of pictures may have been taken the same day, or the same week.

Yes but I can assure you that's Red 12 No doubt possible for my part ! I'm basing my judgement on the yellow canopy, front olive drab panels which cover the red strip and of course on the dark orange/rusty R2 unit which match Red 12 perfectly !

 

[Colin Droidmilk]

Another table pic i've not seen. Thanks, ILMW. That Red 3 pyro looks worth a go actually.

Interesting thing about Red 1. Either the hero's wings opened to the extent of a pyro, or that is a pyro when Red Leader loses his engine. The shot's doubly confusing to me, because the sparks from the blast seem too perfectly characteristic of a pyro device to be animation, yet the model remains undamaged and the shot looks like motion control, which I thought was incompatible with pyro-work.

Meanwhile, the Red 1 model that comes to Luke's rescue - standing in for Wedge's Red 2 - has got its wings damn wide apart too. Could pyros really have been interchangeable with heroes for some of these motion control shots? But how would they have mounted them..?

 

[ILMwannabe]

Could pyros really have been interchangeable with heroes for some of these motion control shots? But how would they have mounted them..?

Well, we know that they took thier chances with hero models on occasion.

For example, a small white ball of pyrotechnics was applied to the Rebel Blockade Runner on the right side, right in front of the engine cluster (it can be seen if you carefully stop-motion your DVD, just before it "explodes" in the first few minutes of "A New Hope").

As far as I know, there was no "pyro" Tantovy IV model, and apparently that effect did not damage the model, at least not significantly. The "explosion" only has to "look" good on film (shot at high speed & played back slow to give it more scale & believability), it doesn't have to actually "blow up" something or cause damage.

So it's possible they did something similar with Red 1 without damaging the hero model. Also, unless I'm mistaken, the pyros still had a round hole in their "butt plate" which implies that they could be mounted from the back (perhaps the only rod mounting point for a pyro).

I was thinking of starting a thread on IDing the various X-Wing minatures and their markings, but before I do I'm trying to find out if this was done before. This forum has TONS of archival material & I don't want to rehashsomething that's already been covered.