Pretty sure zenix mentioned he was given permission by whoever the owner/creator of that particular HIC was.
I'd agree if you're using it as a main point of reference. Less so if you're using it to fill in the gaps. Like I said, the whole secret reference thing. I'm saying, I can see how this can happen without malicious intent.
Hey guys, I'm not taking sides here or anything, but you may find this interesting.
I, being a Whovian, have also been collecting reference pics of the key in question for a while now. After reading this thread, I went back through my McCoy key folder and guess what? 3/4 of my "ref" pics are of Meg's key. (Now deleted)
I don't often get reference pics from JY threads BTW. Just something to consider.
Good point, I did a web search and found dozens of pictures and links to the "McCoy Tardis Key" All of which I now know are recasts or copies of the MEG key.
Except for this thread I had no way of knowing that they were recasts or that MEG and others had just based their designs on photos of a screen used key.
I'm very concerned about CAD design and 3d printing being seen as recasting. I am currently working on buying a 3d printer to produce Art, jewlery, and replica pieces. One item I was going to produce was a McCoy Tardis key based on the screen used one from the Auction photos available online.
Am I going to spend $30,000 just to get call a recaster and get banned?
Edward
Looks like (from viewing it against the images in this thread) that I may've unknowingly purchased one of the recast metal keys last year from eBay (I should've guessed, it's rather bent and doesn't have that good a finish). Although I'm curious as to why some of the keys being noted as recasts of Megatron's have the seal of Rassilon mirrored.
It definitely wasn't the a "gentlemanly" thing to do, but I can easily understand the reasoning if Zenix genuinely thought it was a actual element of the design.
What hasn't helped, as NTBBCPD noted, is that it seems that the replica key is starting to become the standard for the reference, something like that has happened in the Ghostbusters community.
One of the props worn on the belt is referred to as the "Belt Gizmo", and was manufactured from a old Sanyo calculator. Reference of the particular board is very limited, to the point where an excellent replica accidentally ended up as prop reference for a time. It was eventually pointed out to be a high-quality replica, and thankfully since then, genuine reference of the item has surfaced... but when dealing with an information vacuum, it's easy to understand why something that hasn't been properly cited could end up becoming the bench mark.
I also feel that it's probably not the best idea to put all of your reliance in one "tell", especially with it being such a significant one and it being an influence from another TARDIS key design. It was always my impression that the tell was a small item that would be missed if you didn't know what to look for, not a design that is well known in it's own right.
I'd hate to be in the shoes of the person who comes up with a similar concept without having ever seen Megatron's key. It's unlikely, particularly with this prop, but it could be more likely to happen with others.
I was only commenting on the idea that it seems Megatron's key is being commonly used as a ref pic, or how easily somebody could have stumbled onto one of the recasts of his key, and thought that it was part of the original prop. Also on what seems to be the opinion of a few here, that people who model in software are somehow inferior to people who model in a physical medium. It seems out of character for this place to me, being that so many people here use CNC machines and the like to create parts. I can't see how using an easier to use software and medium cancels out the modelling done. If somebody chooses to carve a bust out of marble rather than sculpt one out of clay, the marble will obviously be the tougher medium since you only have one shot at the marble, but does that invalidate the clay sculptor because he can more easily fix mistakes?
Ummmm...I think I have to argue that this isn't the same case
And I have to point out that there isn't just one tell
I think this still comes down to doing the research. If you have the desire to make a replica and especially on forums such as this, you need to try harder than referencing a replica. You should spot the obvious differences of what pictures you're looking at to differentiate a replica picture from a picture of a screen used and should then follow all that back to the point they originated. True there aren't as many pictures of the screen used key out there but they exist otherwise I wouldn't be able to spot the differences and use them to point out the details that are original to the Megatron key and/or people like Mooncrest Models wouldn't have been able to make their screen accurate key. Hell, most of the pics in the JY thread were posted by forum members after scouring Google image files and Doctor Who prop sites to begin with. I'll even go one further to suggest that the limited nature of the pictures of the screen used keys should make it easier to tell you are indeed looking at a picture of a screen used key or not based on the idea that to prevent devaluation of the original prop, there aren't many pictures of the screen used props available.
You, in this very post, acknowledge the difficulties with this particular item. There are precious few photos in existence, and none of any quality. Screenshots are virtually pointless in this case. So doesn't it stand to reason that fringe builders (non-community/n00bs), of which there are MANY, look to the only GOOD reference material out there, the replicas posted by artisans in places like this?
I can see the glaring differences now, but I had those pics long before I knew who Megatron was, or even what the RPF was for that matter. I knew they weren't pics of THE key, but they sure cleared up some of the fuzzier details. In fact, had I not broken my shoulder when I did, I'd have proudly introduced myself here by displaying a freshly cast pewter key that clearly would have gotten me stoned as a heretic recaster.
But by the prevailing logic presented here people the world over should spend epic amounts of their life to make sure they don't reference the group's pieces when making a handful of silly trinkets...even if they know nothing of the group.
You have to remember, this discussion is not about non-community members. It's about how the RPF operates.
Well, you knew the pics weren't of THE key, but used them anyway. Why would you? I'm really just trying to understand, because when I work on a prop, I never use pictures that may be of another persons work. I do this because, I know that they will have seen the prop differently and will not have done what I would do. Also, if there are areas that are unknown, I look at it as an opportunity to put my own "stamp" on a prop.
Again, it's not the world over, it's on the RPF. And I don't think it takes "epic amounts of their life" to not use someone else's work.
Quite frankly, it shouldn't be. The RPF is where we go AFTER we start making props, right? If we're not talking about prop making references and producing via 3D printing in general, we're wasting our time. Obviously, within the community when it becomes an issue, it's dealt with pretty easily.
Actually, a more thorough reading of my post will reveal that I, in fact, DIDN'T use them, but would have. Why? Because the pictures of the real thing are insufficient, and I erroneously believed that whoever had created the reproduction had better reference materials than I could find, and the pics were great to work from.
Now that I'm part of the community, I'm with you, I get it, and I agree 100%, but remember when I was just a guy who thought it was a cool thing to have and liked making stuff. To that guy, those images were a)more available in the search engine and b)the best images available. What's not to get?
I understand your point, but you're not considering normal people who happen to want to make a prop replica, because we are NOT normal people. We care about the stuff normal people can't even see, and we care about who sculpted each version of the prop used across a series. We can tell the difference between the Anakin Ep.III saber and Luke's Ep.IV saber. Because we want to know, and we spend TIME finding out.
And you're delusional in regards to time. This is our hobby, so we already spend the time and know/care about the differences. That doesn't apply to the thousands of normal people who just so happen to be handy & enjoy movie memorabilia. The fact is, they don't CARE if it's your work or the film maker's. They care that it's a good pic, and their buddies will recognize their finished piece. It's essentially the same as a local guitarist playing SRV's version of Voodoo Chile (slight return) at the downtown bar. They copied a copy, had fun, and maybe even got a couple bucks out of the deal.