Ranch Saber Provenance

[thd9791]

Alright folks, lets trace the history of the Ranch Saber, back through time. Or the history of the Hero Graflex forward. (after a post from v312 I thought we should look into belt hangers.

I'm pleased to say I've noticed this

These are the best public images I have on hand, there is a tarnish spot, or brazing spot on the ranch saber that is also on the one that hits the floor of the carbon chamber.

i'll let teecrooz filter what promo images we can show, but there are upper screws on the grips all over the place in ESB

I've even seen some of the same scratches on the upper can that suggests to me the ranch saber is whats left of the Hero

lets add public media and discuss

 

[thd9791]

And the screws are slightly buried in the track. Seriously. this makes it very difficult to spot them.

 

[teecrooz]

Alright, comment is back. Sorry, I removed it while we were working on logistics.

Yes, so I’ve been bothered by many of the promotional shots for some time. I always saw screws in the upper grips. This led me to get more and better shots from the set as well as screen caps in 4K. Many people will say the screws aren’t there in the upper grips. All I can say is if you get the right screen cap or a better photo than you currently have access to and mess with the filters in photoshop or another program, the one or more screws almost always reveal themselves. They did their job. They were painted black to blend in, but they are there.

I‘ll let Tom post some of the images and try to highlight the screws. No one “has” to believe it, but I am convinced that the main hero belt hanger is indeed the ranch saber. No beer tab, matching wear spot above the clamp, and is indeed a Folmer with a Patent and not a Folmer New York. All those poor NY wampa cave versions with their beer tabs wrongly removed!

 

[teecrooz]

Edited, more to come.

 

[bobasfett]

Cool thread. Looks like there is a similar spot on the clamp edge in front of the square hole. Hard to tell there though.

 

[thd9791]

I think the lever was broken during filming too, we’ll get to that later, organizing pics with teecrooz first

 

[v312]

I saw you tagged me, but I don't really have anything new since the last time we discussed this ... So starting with the crooked t-track, the very similar corrosion on the lever and the clamp card with the scratch. Ironically, just like the other picture we discussed where I don't see the small screw on the stunt saber (used as a belt hanger) I can't say on this screenshot I see the mark that's on the ranch saber and not just some random shadow artefact. I don't see it in the other few frames before and after this one at all, but there's more motion blur in them so for something so faint it's no surprise.

However, the alleged spot position seems to match perfectly with the ranch saber

but I won't send anyone to the death row based only on this kind of evidence.

Interestingly the pins look misaligned on both pictures, but in the reverse direction, almost like mirrored.

 

[thd9791]

Alright folks, before I go further, I wanted to say that this is typical RPF research. It's best educated conjecture and some photo proof if we're lucky. We've learned quite a bit over the years without high def, perfectly lit, stage shots so we're working under the same conditions.

Anyway, there is a really good chance the screws on the tops of the grips were a decision during ESB filming, maybe even as far back as mid-early filming.

Eventually we get to Bespin filming....

And Dagobah



And the promo shoots.... this is where it's most notable

These all seem to be the same saber, with the rust right above the slot, the card scratch, etc. Which might really be the underside of the Ranch Saber card.

I don't wholly know what's going on with the D rings, they can be swapped out, or there could be a second belt hanger, but I doubt it. This would make the Ranch saber the original Hero, beat up and re-assembled maybe, but the closest thing we have today to it.

I got permission from teecrooz for these, and I took the torch because we've been talking about this for months and months...this isn't something we have perfect proof for, but that doesn't really exist in this scenario - so I'm taking the heat

 

[thd9791]

Most likely the screws were exactly as they appear. Buried into the track slightly, and painted black. I did not paint mine, but I did duplicate what I've seen in pictures I'm not allowed to share.

 

[v312]

Wow. some really nice images! Thanks for sharing!
I've always suspected that this highlight there is a screw:

but with these references there's no doubt about it. The small screws were probably installed in Norway with the others.

 

[teecrooz]

This has been my long term research project for some time. A lot of inspection of images and screen caps. I finally converted mine last year. Here it is with my wampa cave version.

 

[thd9791]

I mean... did you really go there if you didn't bore 1.5 mm into the T track to plant the heads?

KIDDING they look stellar. Specially the bent T track there

 

[v312]

So, is this the ranch saber too?

The ring looks very similar to this one

the kobold looks upside-down like on the ranch, there are 6 tracks with notches and maybe there's a small screw just above Mark's finger.
I can't pick any other details ... I've never seen better quality pictures of this one

 

[Gregatron]

So, is this the ranch saber too?
View attachment 1683313
The ring looks very similar to this one
View attachment 1683314
the kobold looks upside-down like on the ranch, there are 6 tracks with notches and maybe there's a small screw just above Mark's finger.
I can't pick any other details ... I've never seen better quality pictures of this one

…is the lower red button missing in that set photo?

Personally, I’ve always felt that the primary hero is seen throughout the film, but simply lost its upper red button during filming, before the Dagobah scenes. It stands to reason that the “Ranch” saber (at least the upper, which is also missing a button) and the Dagobah onscreen hero are the same. Of course, a few years back, the button was moved to the top socket, which makes the prop look more “right”.

The real question is where that blasted textured clamp tape came from! Maybe the 1/2” smooth tape peeled off, and someone dressed the prop up with what was on hand.

Could it be that the button was swapped out between ESB and the aborted attempt to use it in ROTJ, then switched back when it went into the Archives? Hmmm.

 

[v312]

Good question, but I don't have any reference pictures of the ROTJ graflex where I can tell if there are 2 buttons or just one ... certainly looks like there's one at the front socket. Same for the clamp tape, might be the textured one the stripe or a plain clamp I just can't tell any details.
But I can see how they eventually decided to wrap it with that textured tape at some point after ESB - there was some rust visible, etc.
I can also imagine how they could have broken the lever, now that I've broken a couple myself by tightening the clamp too much and then trying to close it.

But I cannot imagine what happened with that kobold clip that was in ESB. I don't think the one on the ranch saber is the same that was there on ESB. Because on the ranch saber clearly the screws are in the original kobold holes, and in ESB there were rivets and they would have to drill the holes larger to drive the rivets into them.

 

[v312]

Another good question: How is the clip attached to the ranch saber?

Obviously with the 2 screws, but did they flip the clip and drilled and tapped 2 small holes into the plate or they used the pre-existing holes for the rivets (that will be too large to tap) and the screws go into some sort of core inside? Or just with 2 nuts on the inside?

I'm mostly curious because I'm wondering if the correct orientation for the hero stamp should be the same as the ranch or flipped.

So far I think it's more likely that they reused the existing holes. Could explain why they flipped over the clip and filed it flat - if the screws were too short. But it also seems like too much work instead of just getting longer screws or using rivets like on the hero.

 

[Halliwax]

I completely missed this, glad to see you posted this tom

 

[retrogamer7200]

Most likely the screws were exactly as they appear. Buried into the track slightly, and painted black. I did not paint mine, but I did duplicate what I've seen in pictures I'm not allowed to share.
View attachment 1683117View attachment 1683118View attachment 1683119View attachment 1683120View attachment 1683121View attachment 1683122

Why aren't you allowed to share the pictures?

 

[thd9791]

Why aren't you allowed to share the pictures?

unfortunately (you may see this occur throughout the forums) there is data that is protected legally or via other contractual means that cannot be dispersed or there is an agreement for eyes-only or something like that. It's just the way the community is and I promise noone that I know is being a jerk over it. There are real repercussions, friendships and promises that we have to keep.

on the upside, many times people will be able to share their replica builds instead of the data, this was done with Boba Fett's sidearm recently and I felt so thankful to learn new things that I wouldn't have otherwise. This was what I tried to do here, with the grip screws.

 

[FLS89]

Most likely the screws were exactly as they appear. Buried into the track slightly, and painted black. I did not paint mine, but I did duplicate what I've seen in pictures I'm not allowed to share.
View attachment 1683117View attachment 1683118View attachment 1683119View attachment 1683120View attachment 1683121View attachment 1683122

When you added the small screws to the top of the grips, did you have any trouble drilling into the plastic grips? I’m going to add these to mine soon and just concerned that the grip might crack or split when I drill the tiny hole for them.