Prometheus (Post-release)

[Nwerke]

But is there an interesting story to tell there? We have already seen "aliens run amok" numerous times now.

Not the kind of sequel I had in mind. You can follow the trail of the Engineers in a post-Alien timeframe, too.

a guy who supposedly loves his girlfriend but screws her when he knows he's infected with something

I couldn't believe it when Holloway found the worms in his eye then immediately jumps into bed with Shaw. Oh wait that didn't happen. Oh well.

Hmmm. Missing character motivations I can see, because not everyone watches films the same, but this is a perfect example of the type of criticisms I have seen over and over that make some of us scratch our heads about what film some of you guys were actually watching.

:lol This is the second time this mistake has come up in this thread alone, both times from folk who REALLY HATE the movie. Does make you wonder.

To me, selling some sense of awe and humility before such a massive revelation would be critical for this kind of story to give it more dramatic gravity. They are more on a treasure hunt, a band of tomb raiders.

Completely agree. Needed a much longer cut, IMO. Still hopefull we will get some sense of this in a BR edition.

 

[Kerr Avon]

I couldn't believe it when Holloway found the worms in his eye then immediately jumps into bed with Shaw. Oh wait that didn't happen. Oh well.

Try to keep up, already corrected myself on that. When Holloway found the worms in his eye then immediately jumped into a space suit to get as far away from the medical bay as possible and NOT ****ING TELL ANYONE HE'S GOT WORMS IN HIS EYE.

While the minor details were wrong initially, none of you have ADDRESSED this serious issue with the character. I suspect because there is no viable justification that isn't purely based on shielding Scott from criticism because he made a ****ty movie.

 

[Kit Rae]

Yes, but both Alien and Prometheus are Ridley Scott films set in the same universe revolving around the jockeys. It even has a xeno life form and life cycle in both. If you cannot see the link in that... then I'm just amazed.

The link? If you really cannot understand the point being made, then your response to the film is completely understandable.

 

[mez7]

hey im a biologist who, (considering the mission, i should probably be one of the best on the planet).... well so i found an alien life form (its opening its hood much like a cobra) what should i do?....i know poke it....thats a great idea....

 

[Kit Rae]

Okay, whatever, replace 'screwing his girlfriend' with 'finds out he's infected

That's the point though. It's not an "Okay, whatever" kind of film. If you mix up details like that, or come up with weird illogical stuff, like thinking the Engineers decapitated head was 'hermetically sealed', or half a dozen other odd things you have said, this type of film is clearly not for you. Nothing anyone says is going to change that.

No one one either side is going to convince the other person they are wrong on whether they liked or disliked the film. Our perceptions, likes and dislikes, and conclusions are all different. The people who like it, like it. the people who don't don't.

 

[Kit Rae]

hey im a biologist who, (considering the mission, i should probably be one of the best on the planet).... well so i found an alien life form (its opening its hood much like a cobra) what should i do?....i know poke it....thats a great idea....

If you are a moron, trying to impress the other moron with you that you know how to deal with this situation, yes, that is exactly what you should do. :love

The only thing missing from that scene was a much more horrible way for them to have died. I mean it was nasty, but that's a scene Ridley could have really gone over the top with to dispatch those two.

 

[Nwerke]

Try to keep up, already corrected myself on that.

Well, more casually redirected it than corrected, IMO, but yes I did note it. Sometimes I don't let the facts get in the way of a good sledge either. :lol

hen Holloway found the worms in his eye then immediately jumped into a space suit to get as far away from the medical bay as possible and NOT ****ING TELL ANYONE HE'S GOT WORMS IN HIS EYE.

Who would argue this isn't stupid? But then again, by this point we've already seen the guy remove his space helmet before any kind of biohazard scan. We know he is kind of reckless by now. He wants to get back to the temple no matter what. That's all I've got; ultimately it is mind-meltingly stupid and there's no two ways about it.

While the minor details were wrong initially, none of you have ADDRESSED this serious issue with the character. I suspect because there is no viable justification that isn't purely based on shielding Scott from criticism because he made a *o***ty movie.

Dude, I've criticised Scott for the stupidities of Alien, let alone this. How many times can I say it before you will hear me? Yes, this movie has some serious problems, I just like it anyway. It has enough that is good to make it worth forgiving the bad, IMO. There's that subjectivity thing again.

The only thing missing from that scene was a much more horrible way for them to have died. I mean it was nasty, but that's a scene Ridley could have really gone over the top with to dispatch those two.

:lol I must admit, one thing I did expect was an upping of the ante on horrible deaths.

I wonder what became of the line 'it was in my suit/throat' from the trailer. Is it heard? I listened out last time and missed it. If it is gone, does it follow that originally Milburn survived the initial attack?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

The link? If you really cannot understand the point being made, then your response to the film is completely understandable.

I understand completely they are different films, but they contain the same elements, so is open for comparison. In fact, I would have preferred them to be even more disconnected than they turned out to be. It just felt like it tried to be both and ended up not succeeding at either. It wasn't a horror movie, but used horror movie story-telling points, it was a quest for answers without really going anywhere, it could have been a boring overly philosophical and vomitingly preaching movie, thankfully it wasn't - but, it also didn't even attempt to elicit natural and realistic emotional responses from the characters to pretty much any of the fantastic and horrific things they were seeing and experiencing - and the two seemingly random, out of the blue breakdowns of Shaw's character, then fine in the next scene, were just jarring and forced, it's just hey, she's breaking down, showing that, then she's fine again... whooptidoo..

I get what was attempted, I just feel it failed for various reasons - regarding the story and characters, mostly. It's not a bad movie, better than most trite brainless science fiction explosion movies, but it could have been more.

 

[blipper]

If you are a moron, trying to impress the other moron with you that you know how to deal with this situation, yes, that is exactly what you should do. :love

Kit -this really does just come across as excusing bad writing. It's not just that Milburn reaches out once, he does it three times, each time his hand proffered as something to bite, and the only conclusion you can draw from watching that scene objectively is that Milburn has made it his absolute life's priority to tempt fate with this thing. It's also a complete 180 in behaviour to his earlier enthusiasm for self-preservation.

Although it wouldn't totally lose it's WTF?ness, the scene would benefit heavily by truncation to just one reach - it would go from being repeatedly moronic to just moronic -which is still pretty cruddy writing, but eh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmuHMKX_MvU&t=1m20s

I wonder what became of the line 'it was in my suit/throat' from the trailer. Is it heard? I listened out last time and missed it. If it is gone, does it follow that originally Milburn survived the initial attack?

There's also the line missing from Janek in one of the trailers "Kill everything. Do you copy me?" -wonder what that refers to?

Prometheus International Trailer - UK - YouTube

 

[NAZGÛL]

I totally understand that people looking for realism and logic dont like the film. The symbolism behind the character motivation is more important than the realism and logic. Thats clear in the scene when the serpent seduces man. The snake scene doesnt have the suspence like Alien as the later is a pretty plain horror movie. Prometheus is symbolic and allegoric. It has some problems being that, as it can be hard to connect to that kind of characters.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I'd say Alien is more a suspense thriller with horror elements, than a plain horror movie. I usually find horror movies to be excruciatingly stupid, with retarded characters doing moronic things.

 

[blipper]

The symbolism behind the character motivation is more important than the realism and logic.

Which would then hammer home my earlier criticism that the (pretty unsophisticated) symbolism in Prometheus is wielded with all the grace of a baby's first steps. Realistic, plausible or sympathetic behaviour does not exclude any opportunity for symbolism or allegory. Better movies have shown this.

And there's no doubt Prometheus would like to make a pretense at realism. When Scott is at pains to point out the consultation and collaboration with NASA in Prometheus' development, it comes as a surprise then when it appears he consulted the chimps at the zoo for a fair portion of story elements.

Milburn was scared of unknown life one moment and cooing over it the next - there's no consistency there at all.
Same problem with Fifield - mapping guru one minute - lost the next.
Holloway: amped on alien origins one moment - in the next he's depressed after the most cursory search of *the* most profound find ever.
Engineer: prioritises very important mission one moment - puts it aside to chase a single human in the next.
Weyland: spends an ungodly amount on a mission, spends over 2 years in hyper-sleep, has a robot that is making unprecedented leaps alien understanding - can't wait more than a few days before reducing his robot to alarm-clock status for a sleeping and potentially dangerous alien.

These problems should have pricked ears in the development stage. Excusing poor writing under the guise of 'it's symbolism' is just depressing.

btw - I don't believe people who find the Milburn/snake scene mishandled have a problem with allegorical movies, just badly written movies, period.

 

[Jedi2016]

There's also the line missing from Janek in one of the trailers "Kill everything. Do you copy me?" -wonder what that refers to?

Prometheus International Trailer - UK - YouTube

I got the impression after watching the film that that line was cobbled together from different bits of the movie for the trailer. The "Do you copy?" shows up in the film when he's talking to Shaw right as the Juggernaut is taking off. The "Kill everything" line doesn't appear at all, but I can't really think of any place in the film where it would show up, so I have no idea where that came from. I'm going to pass that off as a hack job done by whoever put the trailer together rather than as an indication of a cut in the film.

As for Milburn, he was a biologist. That means animal life. The dead Engineer didn't interest him any more than a dead human would. But a living animal, on the other hand... We've seen that sort of thing happen in real life. There was a TV show about that very thing, if you recall, where the host did a lot of really stupid things with the animals he encountered. Ended up in a bad way. Stupid? Sure. Out of character bad writing? No.

It's interesting how people have this idea about how "professional scientists" are "supposed" to behave. Largely based on other films, I assume, since I highly doubt anyone here is a biologist or geologist and spends most of their time in the field. Scientists are people too, you know, and believe me.. they'll do really stupid things just as often as anyone else.

Oh, and in regards to the rolling donut Juggernaut.. panic has a way of turning off the logical parts of our brains. It happened to me when I was a young child, running away from a snowplow at a ski resort, far too scared to think that if I simply stepped a few feet to my right, it would go right by me. And far too scared to think that of course the driver knew I was there, and wasn't going to run me over in any event.

If someone rolls a tire from a pickup truck at you, you'll just step out of the way. If someone rolls a tire from one of those massive mining trucks at you, your only thought will be to get away, even if that means running in a straight line. Running to the side means you're not running away, and your brain in panic mode probably won't allow that to happen.

It's very easy for the audience to think of these things, because we're sitting in a comfy chair in an air-conditioned movie theater.

 

[Kerr Avon]

I got the impression after watching the film that that line was cobbled together from different bits of the movie for the trailer. The "Do you copy?" shows up in the film when he's talking to Shaw right as the Juggernaut is taking off. The "Kill everything" line doesn't appear at all, but I can't really think of any place in the film where it would show up, so I have no idea where that came from. I'm going to pass that off as a hack job done by whoever put the trailer together rather than as an indication of a cut in the film.

Don't make excuses for the movie. We already know for a fact the movie itself is a hackjob of several scripts and scenes filmed.

As for Milburn, he was a biologist. That means animal life. The dead Engineer didn't interest him any more than a dead human would. But a living animal, on the other hand... We've seen that sort of thing happen in real life.

Did you take any biology courses? How old are you? "Biology" means "the study of life" and it means EVERYTHING that is living. A sentient alien being, a snake, the microbes in the soil and air. It means ANYTHING that is living.

 

[MooCriket]

This back and forth can go on forever. Well played, Sir Scott:lol

 

[Jedi2016]

Did you take any biology courses?

Three years, actually. None of which touched on any of the higher life forms, there was a separate class for that, dedicated to humans (I took that class too).

Don't bother trying to change my opinion, by the way. No matter how much you folks ramble on about how horrible the film is, I'm still going to like it. You're trying to convince us that the movie is bad, and we're trying to convince you that it's not. It's not just talking to a brick wall.. it's two brick walls talking to each other. Very exciting concept.

I still maintain that this film is being held to a higher standard than other films (for some reason that I can't quite gather), which is the only reason you folks are trying to tear it apart so badly. Practically every other film in existence has these same flaws, and yet they're blissfully overlooked (just as we're doing, those of us that actually like Prometheus).

There are no perfect films. Ridley Scott has never made a perfect film. Alien and Blade Runner are just as far from perfect as Prometheus is.

I'm starting to wonder why the folks that hate the film the most keep coming back to this thread. If you really hate it that badly, why do you keep wanting to talk about it?

I keep coming back here to discuss the themes and the mythology of the film. Why do you keep coming back?

 

[Finnlock]

As for Milburn, he was a biologist. That means animal life. The dead Engineer didn't interest him any more than a dead human would. But a living animal, on the other hand... We've seen that sort of thing happen in real life. There was a TV show about that very thing, if you recall, where the host did a lot of really stupid things with the animals he encountered. Ended up in a bad way. Stupid? Sure. Out of character bad writing? No.

It's interesting how people have this idea about how "professional scientists" are "supposed" to behave. Largely based on other films, I assume, since I highly doubt anyone here is a biologist or geologist and spends most of their time in the field. Scientists are people too, you know, and believe me.. they'll do really stupid things just as often as anyone else..

And what was one of the key things that scientists do in biology to understand how a life form functions? When they have a dead one? DIssect it so you can see all the organs and it's internal systems! The dead do interest biologist.

And if you have EVER watched a sciance documentary on PBS or the like, you have see how "professional scientists" act.

They are trained and educated to follow certain guild lines of a reason. This isn't Indiana Jones in the 1930'sbefore we understood the implications of just disturbing a site with out documenting everything's place and orientation, this is 2089 or whatever,sorry I don't recall the exact date when we meet the "professional archaeologist " on their mapped out dig site....

Look at Jurassic Park, those scientists where portrayed in a way that is much more believable given the situation they found themselves in, it can be done.
The scientists in Prometheus act more like grave robbers. It's like being an art curator and eating a sandwich and smoking while standing over the Mona Lisa , it just wouldn't happen.

 

[NAZGÛL]

Im going with some friends to see it again tomorrow. It will be interesting to see it a second time.

 

[Jedi2016]

And what was one of the key things that scientists do in biology to understand how a life form functions? When they have a dead one? DIssect it so you can see all the organs and it's internal systems! The dead do interest biologist.

And if you have EVER watched a sciance documentary on PBS or the like, you have see how "professional scientists" act.

They are trained and educated to follow certain guild lines of a reason. This isn't Indiana Jones in the 1930'sbefore we understood the implications of just disturbing a site with out documenting everything's place and orientation, this is 2089 or whatever,sorry I don't recall the exact date when we meet the "professional archaeologist " on their mapped out dig site....

Look at Jurassic Park, those scientists where portrayed in a way that is much more believable given the situation they found themselves in, it can be done.
The scientists in Prometheus act more like grave robbers. It's like being an art curator and eating a sandwich and smoking while standing over the Mona Lisa , it just wouldn't happen.

I think I already covered this:

Don't bother trying to change my opinion, by the way. No matter how much you folks ramble on about how horrible the film is, I'm still going to like it. You're trying to convince us that the movie is bad, and we're trying to convince you that it's not. It's not just talking to a brick wall.. it's two brick walls talking to each other. Very exciting concept.

 

[Jedi2016]

Actually, I just thought of something...

How many of you haters are going to buy the Blu-ray just so you can spend more time researching how horrible the film is?

At that point, opinion no longer matters, I think. Mission accomplished, say the film's producers.